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CyReN

Halo World Championship 2018 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Literally the only forgers that even replied to that are Me, Omi, and Squally. I've never plugged my maps to literally anyone ever, Omi doesn't even make maps, and I cant speak for Squally. We just wanted to know if he was going to be streaming, like whats so bad about that? 

 

Yeah... I honestly didnt see anything wrong with any of those tweets.

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Yeah... I honestly didnt see anything wrong with any of those tweets.

Context is different when you know the guys. I don't expect it to bother anyone else, was really just speaking my mind.

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snip

That was honestly the funniest thing to come out of H5. When I was champ in Team Arena back towards the start of the game releasing I knew there was absolutely no way I was inside of the top 70 something it had me at. Although at the time I just attributed it to getting easy Ws with the guy I've been running 2s with for like 15 years and no party matching rather than everything being busted. Slowly noticed over time that the people I was playing against seemed to just be super random skill wise and that there wasn't really a good explanation other than a broken ranking system

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Literally the only forgers that even replied to that are Me, Omi, and Squally. I've never plugged my maps to literally anyone ever, Omi doesn't even make maps, and I cant speak for Squally. We just wanted to know if he was going to be streaming, like whats so bad about that? 

I just saw your username didn't even realize I was talking to you lol your map is by far, the least offensive on the list FYI.

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To be fair, MOBAs are much more mechanics-driven than they are map-driven like first and third person shooters generally are, but yeah, both DotA and League use one map/game-type in competitive. Now, I don't think that would work for an FPS, because they get a lot of their depth from 3D positioning, but the point stands. If you have a good competitive game people enjoy playing, gradual additive changes over a long period of time work wonders. There are plenty of ways to add content to a game to keep people engaged without making drastic changes to the competitive experience (e.g. skins, social events, PvE, etc).

 

I can agree with that.

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Delayed weapon spawns should be standard for assyms, for sym maps I personally like weapons at start.

 

Since 343 is set on using weapon pads for everything, there's a pretty unique req weapon combination glitch thing that combines the sniper with...a railgun I think? Anyways, the end result is literally just a sniper with only 1 shot in the magazine like the Gears sniper. It doesn't lower the AA at all but otherwise it's pretty cool, could be neat to look into for dual sniper maps.

 

Maybe just ditch the Sniper Rifle all together and place DMR's or Light Rifles at Sniper Spawn as the weapon of choice for long sight lines? 

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The fact I can open this thread and see people considering dual hydras on Sanc & saying that Riptide is even remotely close to being a half decent map makes me worry for this forum's sanity during the off season

 

Dual Hydra's and dual Binary rifles or bust.

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When power weapon design is so bad a map we've been playing in just about every game but H1/3 might not work with the normal weapon layout

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If it ain't broke, don't fix it. A competitive map rotation doesn't need tons of variety or change for the sake of change. It needs maps that provide gameplay deemed desirable for competitive play. There's a reason that most of the well-regarded new maps in later Halo games are essentially variations on the classic layouts. Even those require plenty of testing and revision to get right. Why throw out maps that are proven to work? Short attention spans?

 

I think you have it backwards. Halo could use some more quality staples that stick around and ideally improve over time. Whether Sanctuary specifically is one of those maps is another matter, but adding new, GOOD maps is not a trivial task.

 

Meanwhile, Dust 2 (an 18-year-old map) is back in the competitive rotation for CS:GO.

I've been thinking this same thing. There are maps from games that should stand the test of time, even if you remake them to fit the current version of Halo. Not to mention it could add the layer of strategy in matches by introducing map/gametype vetoes - like veto Ivory TS, or Sanc Flag etc. I don't know, I'm just kind of spitballing here, but I think @@Apoll0 said it well when he said that some maps are just good. Obviously part of the other problem is the gametypes limit which maps could/would be played. If you have the four core gametypes from past Halos - TS, KotH, Ball, and Assault, well then you could have a map pool of just say like 8 or 10 maps and 4 gametypes that are spread out over the maps. Could help keep things interesting over the development cycle of the game. 

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The fact I can open this thread and see people considering dual hydras on Sanc & saying that Riptide is even remotely close to being a half decent map makes me worry for this forum's sanity during the off season

 

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Every halo should have a litmus test where 2 maps each from H1-3 are remade then played as both 2v2 and 4v4. If they play like shit or need any modification from their original form to play well, the game fails the test. What maps would you pick?

 

H2 is my homeboy so I would start with Midship and Sanctuary.

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Every halo should have a litmus test where 2 maps each from H1-3 are remade then played as both 2v2 and 4v4. If they play like shit or need any modification from their original form to play well, the game fails the test. What maps would you pick?

 

H2 is my homeboy so I would start with Midship and Sanctuary.

beaver creek/chill out/warlock. At least a map with a damn portal in it.
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Just add the fuel rod back to Truth and we will be all set.

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Every halo should have a litmus test where 2 maps each from H1-3 are remade then played as both 2v2 and 4v4. If they play like shit or need any modification from their original form to play well, the game fails the test. What maps would you pick?

 

H2 is my homeboy so I would start with Midship and Sanctuary.

 

4v4: Narrows

2v2: Prisoner

 

 

I had a hard time picking the 4v4 map because honestly, I haven't thought there was a stand-out 4v4 map design in the entirety of the Halo franchise.  I ended up selecting Narrows because it was the map that seemed to evolve the most over its respective title's lifespan -- it was a map where nearly every time I watched pros play on it, I learned a new sightline that I'd not seen before.

 

If the Creeks had been at least FUNCTIONALLY symmetrical, one of them could have made the cut because of the amount of depth flag games had on it.

 

I personally think all of CE's maps were awful for 4v4.  Halo 2 had Midship and Sanctuary for passable Symms and then a bad Asymm (Lockout), an imbalanced Asymm (Creek) and then fucking Warlock.  Halo 3 had a Midship remake and 2 wannabe Midships in Forge, The Pit (which was godawful for Slayer), a deconstructed Lockout that was even worse than the original (Guardian), and then Construct which was an abomination for Slayer, but a damn good KotH map.  I'd be fine with them redesigning the competitive settings to focus around KotH as a primary gametype rather than CTF, but that'd likely feature too much resistance from players, because CTF is far more simple and people like simple.

 

 

 

As for 2v2, I just said internally "Pick literally any CE map."

 

 

 

 

Edit, I also realize after posting you meant the map needed to be playable as BOTH a 2v2 AND a 4v4 map... so I honestly can't name a map that would actually be superb for both player amounts.

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4v4: Narrows

2v2: Prisoner

 

 

I had a hard time picking the 4v4 map because honestly, I haven't thought there was a stand-out 4v4 map design in the entirety of the Halo franchise. I ended up selecting Narrows because it was the map that seemed to evolve the most over its respective title's lifespan -- it was a map where nearly every time I watched pros play on it, I learned a new sightline that I'd not seen before.

 

If the Creeks had been at least FUNCTIONALLY symmetrical, one of them could have made the cut because of the amount of depth flag games had on it.

 

I personally think all of CE's maps were awful for 4v4. Halo 2 had Midship and Sanctuary for passable Symms and then a bad Asymm (Lockout), an imbalanced Asymm (Creek) and then fucking Warlock. Halo 3 had a Midship remake and 2 wannabe Midships in Forge, The Pit (which was godawful for Slayer), a deconstructed Lockout that was even worse than the original (Guardian), and then Construct which was an abomination for Slayer, but a damn good KotH map. I'd be fine with them redesigning the competitive settings to focus around KotH as a primary gametype rather than CTF, but that'd likely feature too much resistance from players, because CTF is far more simple and people like simple.

 

 

 

As for 2v2, I just said internally "Pick literally any CE map."

 

 

 

 

Edit, I also realize after posting you meant the map needed to be playable as BOTH a 2v2 AND a 4v4 map... so I honestly can't name a map that would actually be superb for both player amounts.

Eh narrows only works in H3 and would play kinda dumpy for any halo game with competent hit detection. Pris is more acceptable but it only really shines due to CE mechanics.

 

Beaver Creek is admittedly awful for slayer but king of the hill plays well enough to give it a nod in my opinion. It was by far one of the best game types in NBNS reach. Warlock/wizard is a solid map and one of the fastest paced map in the series. And it can play everything fairly well. Ball,flag,slayer,koth,assault all work reasonably well on warlock.

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Edit, I also realize after posting you meant the map needed to be playable as BOTH a 2v2 AND a 4v4 map... so I honestly can't name a map that would actually be superb for both player amounts.

 

I dont even think they need to be "flawless" per se.  No map is ever flawless. they just need to still play well.  I think flag on creek is a good example.  Not perfect, but definitely fun AF to play and competitively viable despite the slight asymmetry.  I don't see that map playing well in H5 for example without exploding its size both in length, and the height of the bases.

 

And of course this litmus test design could be tweaked.  We could say stick to 4s, or separate 2, 4 and even big team maps up to evaluate them separately.  I guess my main point is that there is definitely a way to take a small map pool from H1 - 3 and do initial playtesting on those.  If the game fails the fun factor, or you even have to think about altering the maps in any significant way to make them "work" with whatever new mechanics are being thought of, then its the mechanics and gameplay design that needs to be fixed first.

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