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CyReN

Halo World Championship 2018 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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I'm sitting here amazed that so many people apparently didn't notice the difference in melee speed when jumping vs standing when ground pound is enabled.  I'm generally oblivious to details like this, and I noticed it the very first time I tried a jumping melee.  Immediately afterward, I loaded up a custom game by myself to make sure I wasn't imagining things.  This is when the cursing began.  I thought it was pretty obvious.

 

On a completely different topic, I used to love forging 4v4 maps. I've only made one in this game, and the thought of building one now makes me sick to my stomach.  I can't stand the thought of watching anything I build be played competitively in Halo 5, but this is especially the case for 4v4.  The design approach needed to make a decent playing map creates gameplay I don't enjoy playing or watching.  It's not that it's bad exactly, but it's far removed from the simplicity that's always drawn me to Halo.  I've always said that I don't love level design, I love designing levels for Halo.  I feel like I'm designing for an entirely different game with H5, and I just don't enjoy it at all.  

 

Also, I think I've said this before here, but forgers have had no reason to build 4v4 maps.  There has been support for forge maps in BTB, 2v2, and specialty gametypes, but never anything for competitive 4v4.  When you combine this with the fact that most forgers prefer smaller or larger player counts, you end up with the list that's currently being considered.  Which is not to say that the list is horrendous, but it's not good.  It's to be expected when you have the combination of no support, and it being a player count that forgers don't particularly enjoy designing for.  I don't think I could put together a list of 5 decent 4v4 maps, (even most of the maps that Multi linked to are not very good for 4v4).

 

I think 4v4 forge maps were basically killed off in H5. Not to be overly narcissistic, but we both know how much forgers live for the notoriety of having their map accepted somewhere. With the lack of 4v4 forge (core) map support in H5 MM, the majority of forgers gravitated towards other things. You and I came from the comp forge community and not having forge maps supported in this game for HCS basically killed a lot of drive for myself and several others. I think that is a result of why there are so few of 4v4 maps that look/play decently enough. If anything, this SHOULD spark some interesting new designs in the coming future. Hell, getting a map in the rotation has been one of my goals to achieve, yet I didn't have the skills to be considered back in 3/Reach and 4 was my closest bet. Hopefully forge maps will be accepted, tested, and possibly more maps will come from this endeavor. 

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I think 4v4 forge maps were basically killed off in H5. Not to be overly narcissistic, but we both know how much forgers live for the notoriety of having their map accepted somewhere. With the lack of 4v4 forge (core) map support in H5 MM, the majority of forgers gravitated towards other things. You and I came from the comp forge community and not having forge maps supported in this game for HCS basically killed a lot of drive for myself and several others. I think that is a result of why there are so few of 4v4 maps that look/play decently enough. If anything, this SHOULD spark some interesting new designs in the coming future. Hell, getting a map in the rotation has been one of my goals to achieve, yet I didn't have the skills to be considered back in 3/Reach and 4 was my closest bet. Hopefully forge maps will be accepted, tested, and possibly more maps will come from this endeavor. 

 

You don't think that White Cell could be an amazing competitive map???? its for 4s and made it in to matchmaking!!!

 

 

 

I hate that map don't neg

 

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Halo 5 dual snipers on Sanc.

 

 

 

Ew.

 

Could be ok if they make it the beam rifle.

Hell, i wouldn't be opposed to trying something like Sniper spawns bottom mid, then 2 minutes later Rockets spawn there, repeat.  I like what gears does with altering the weapons on the map per-round.  Round based games don't really work competitively for Halo, but alternating weapons on the same weapon pad would be nice to try.  Is that even something that can be done?

 

Or having delayed item spawns.  Make it so there isn't "more shit" showing up on the map total, but shit is showing up more often.  I am not sure how either one of those would actually work, but i would like to give them a shot.

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Count me in for Beam Rifles and delayed item spawns for asyms. This is something we should have figured out by now for H5.

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Honestly I'm REALLY sick of the same old maps constantly trying to be played in every iteration of Halo.

 

I’ve seen and played enough Sanc to last me a lifetime. I loved the map, it was fun, but it’s time for the developers to learn to make new symmetrical and competitive maps rather than digging through the recycling bin to see what we can salvage.

 

I have the opposite opinion.  There are some maps that are just.... good, staple maps.  We should not be ashamed of pulling them forward from game to game to game.

Now, i guess you could argue that Sanc doesn't fit the bill as much as say Midship, though personally for me it does.

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Could be ok if they make it the beam rifle.

Hell, i wouldn't be opposed to trying something like Sniper spawns bottom mid, then 2 minutes later Rockets spawn there, repeat.  I like what gears does with altering the weapons on the map per-round.  Round based games don't really work competitively for Halo, but alternating weapons on the same weapon pad would be nice to try.  Is that even something that can be done?

 

Or having delayed item spawns.  Make it so there isn't "more shit" showing up on the map total, but shit is showing up more often.  I am not sure how either one of those would actually work, but i would like to give them a shot.

 

I thought the beam rifle was easier to use than the sniper? Is that no longer the case?

 

when are we getting details for the new season? 

 

I might be in the minority but im fine with them taking their time to announce things this time around. I just want a good set of settings, maps, and gametypes to be settled on before anything else. It always annoyed me when certain things were being tested in the past only for it to be brushed of with "Not enough time to test for this season we will look into it for next season".

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I have the opposite opinion.  There are some maps that are just.... good, staple maps.  We should not be ashamed of pulling them forward from game to game to game.

Now, i guess you could argue that Sanc doesn't fit the bill as much as say Midship, though personally for me it does.

Agreed. Especially in an era of Halo where recent map design has been flimsy to say the least. 

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Honestly I'm REALLY sick of the same old maps constantly trying to be played in every iteration of Halo.

 

I’ve seen and played enough Sanc to last me a lifetime. I loved the map, it was fun, but it’s time for the developers to learn to make new symmetrical and competitive maps rather than digging through the recycling bin to see what we can salvage.

 

I feel yeah, but Coli, Plaza and Fathom are really good (Fathom needs some help of course) for out of the box fresh maps I was impressed 3 years ago - Just giving credit where credit is due

 

But then we haven't gotten shit since then and nothing to help the Fathom stand offs - Just taking the usual dump on 343

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Honestly I'm REALLY sick of the same old maps constantly trying to be played in every iteration of Halo.

 

I’ve seen and played enough Sanc to last me a lifetime. I loved the map, it was fun, but it’s time for the developers to learn to make new symmetrical and competitive maps rather than digging through the recycling bin to see what we can salvage.

 

I like to be environmentally friendly and check the recycle bin. I went into the real bin where I saw Molten, Overgrowth and Riptide and slowly closed the lid.

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Halo 5 dual snipers on Sanc.

 

 

 

Ew.

What if there were a BR in ' Sniper ' tower and maybe Rockets/Sniper in the middle ? (or OS/Camo ? )

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What if there were a BR in ' Sniper ' tower and maybe Rockets/Sniper in the middle ? (or OS/Camo ? )

My problem isn't the actual power of the sniper it's the ease of use. The sniper hasn't actually gotten stronger or weaker through the series it's just gotten easier, changing them out with BRs probably changes a lot of the rhythm of sanc. Not saying that that's a bad thing, because maybe it's not. Sanc has historically had way too many standoffs because you one can push thanks to the snipers, so maybe a change of formula is needed. Still doesn't address the core issues related to the actual map geometry and how hard it can be to break the 50 yard line but you'll probably see a lot more movement.

 

 

Crazy idea here, but dual hydras might be worth a go. Theyve got some range and can secure the further kills, but their travel time could provide good counterplay by allowing players to reach the rock gardens and take cover. Probably could flush the center building better as well by arcing the shots over ring 3.

 

And then since you've already got double explosives, switch the central rocket with Camo or OS to break standstills.

 

Plus, hydras can lock onto invis players so you've got some more interplay there.

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I like to be environmentally friendly and check the recycle bin. I went into the real bin where I saw Molten, Overgrowth and Riptide and slowly closed the lid.

 

Played Riptide last night in Slayer - it is beyond me that map ever got out 

 

My early attempts at getting into blue room were comical enough for YT if Halo was actually popular enough for YT. I was killed in every combination possible. 

 

- Sniped multiple times from the guy who camps looking wind tunnel

- Melted by the guy who waits at the back door with Storm rife and crouches

- Comboed going bottom mid

- What really took the cake was sprinting to an empty blue room on the cat walk by sniper spawn, hearing the hydra go off behind me from stage and those fuckers followed me into blue and killed me and was at once controlled by the enemy

 

Like how the hell do you make a map like Coli and then Riptide? 

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I thought the beam rifle was easier to use than the sniper? Is that no longer the case?

 

 

I might be in the minority but im fine with them taking their time to announce things this time around. I just want a good set of settings, maps, and gametypes to be settled on before anything else. It always annoyed me when certain things were being tested in the past only for it to be brushed of with "Not enough time to test for this season we will look into it for next season".

 

Beam has less AA.  Harder to hit headshots, but you can double-tap body shots instead.  Maybe start them with 50% ammo? This has got to be the last season of H5.  Best to just take their time and get shit right.

Agreed. Especially in an era of Halo where recent map design has been flimsy to say the least. 

 

Played Riptide last night in Slayer - it is beyond me that map ever got out 

 

My early attempts at getting into blue room were comical enough for YT if Halo was actually popular enough for YT. I was killed in every combination possible. 

 

- Sniped multiple times from the guy who camps looking wind tunnel

- Melted by the guy who waits at the back door with Storm rife and crouches

- Comboed going bottom mid

- What really took the cake was sprinting to an empty blue room on the cat walk by sniper spawn, hearing the hydra go off behind me from stage and those fuckers followed me into blue and killed me and was at once controlled by the enemy

 

Like how the hell do you make a map like Coli and then Riptide? 

 

Both of these examples kind of blow my mind.  The launch maps as a whole were actually pretty good.  I like most of the launch maps.  The only DLC map thats even serviceable for average-level gameplay though is Stasis.  And competitively that map is dogshit because of the "blue side wins" geometry. Its a slightly asymmetrical symmetrical map, which is just weird.

 

Frankly, part of my blame goes to the "Remix" idea they had.  I could see that being a thing for like 1 map, if you actually had 2 good idea for that map or something and didn't want to let either vision go.  A sort of, honest creative dilemma.  But to force the idea for literally all the DLC seems like a poor decision.  It seems to me, that kind of strategy artificially hamstrings you. You have to take the first version of the map (that is the original design you worked on for a reason, and you probably like better to begin with), then change it enough to justify it even existing in the sandbox, yet at the same time keep it similar enough that you can tell which original map it was inspired from.

 

It seems to me like a designer would go through an iterative process while they are working on a map as they design and work and change and tweak things until they finally land on the final form.  Remixing forces the designer to restart that process in the middle, then force themselves to branch off in a different direction.  A direction they probably didn't take the first time for a reason.

 

Or hell, the opposite problem could happen where the remix is better. In that case, why would you include the original since you know the "alternate version" it spawned from is superior?

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Honestly I'm REALLY sick of the same old maps constantly trying to be played in every iteration of Halo.

 

I’ve seen and played enough Sanc to last me a lifetime. I loved the map, it was fun, but it’s time for the developers to learn to make new symmetrical and competitive maps rather than digging through the recycling bin to see what we can salvage.

 

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. A competitive map rotation doesn't need tons of variety or change for the sake of change. It needs maps that provide gameplay deemed desirable for competitive play. There's a reason that most of the well-regarded new maps in later Halo games are essentially variations on the classic layouts. Even those require plenty of testing and revision to get right. Why throw out maps that are proven to work? Short attention spans?

 

I think you have it backwards. Halo could use some more quality staples that stick around and ideally improve over time. Whether Sanctuary specifically is one of those maps is another matter, but adding new, GOOD maps is not a trivial task.

 

Meanwhile, Dust 2 (an 18-year-old map) is back in the competitive rotation for CS:GO.

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If it ain't broke, don't fix it. A competitive map rotation doesn't need tons of variety or change for the sake of change. It needs maps that provide gameplay deemed desirable for competitive play. There's a reason that most of the well-regarded new maps in later Halo games are essentially variations on the classic layouts. Even those require plenty of testing and revision to get right. Why throw out maps that are proven to work? Short attention spans?

 

I think you have it backwards. Halo could use some more quality staples that stick around and ideally improve over time. Whether Sanctuary specifically is one of those maps is another matter, but adding new, GOOD maps is not a trivial task.

 

Meanwhile, Dust 2 (an 18-year-old map) is back in the competitive rotation for CS:GO.

 

Summoners Rift is another good example

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I know the forge maps aren't great but I'm still surprised no one posted this. 

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Summoners Rift is another good example

 

To be fair, MOBAs are much more mechanics-driven than they are map-driven like first and third person shooters generally are, but yeah, both DotA and League use one map/game-type in competitive. Now, I don't think that would work for an FPS, because they get a lot of their depth from 3D positioning, but the point stands. If you have a good competitive game people enjoy playing, gradual additive changes over a long period of time work wonders. There are plenty of ways to add content to a game to keep people engaged without making drastic changes to the competitive experience (e.g. skins, social events, PvE, etc).

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