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CyReN

Halo World Championship 2018 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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well yeah thats the knock on effect of 'advanced' movement. It limits map design because you have to account for all the garbage abilities they put into the game. God forbid people want to play on something symmetrical, small and simple.

My problem isn't with symmetry, there just aren't many good 4v4 maps in H5. That's been the weakest map pool in the forge community this entire game. There's a lot more quality 2v2/BTB maps.

 

There are always ways to design around the movement.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Sentinel start off as an aesthetic map? Sure there is a map around it but I swear the intent was to make something that looked good rather than play good.

No it just went through like 100 iterations, I know because I sat through the lobbies with all of them. That map might be the worst offender in the list

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No it just went through like 100 iterations, I know because I sat through the lobbies with all of them. That map might be the worst offender in the list

 

Ah, ok.  Then I'm probably remembering some video where it got shown off because it looked good. 

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What if 343 made us choose between sprint and armor lock being in competitive halo? Like we could willingly have sprint removed but only at the cost of adding armor lock back in.  Which do we dislike more?

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Ah, ok. Then I'm probably remembering some video where it got shown off because it looked good.

I mean visually it has a cool theme yeah, layout is dog

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I think the big problem with the lack of any new maps being added is that the Post launch maps failed for one reason.

 

Sight lines across the map.

 

Symmetry is a big part of a good map, but if you can see and shoot cross map from a lot of places, it makes it great competitively. Truth and Coliseum work. Rig and Plaza work although they are asymmetrical. Empire, Regret, and Fathom have symmetry but not a lot of sightlines that’s why they are only used for one game type each.

 

Of the post launch maps, Overgrowth, Riptide, Tyrant, and Molten have almost no cross map sight lines.

Torque, Stasis and Mercy have a few, but if you aren’t up high then you are shit out of luck.

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I think the big problem with the lack of any new maps being added is that the Post launch maps failed for one reason.

 

Sight lines across the map.

 

Symmetry is a big part of a good map, but if you can see and shoot cross map from a lot of places, it makes it great competitively. Truth and Coliseum work. Rig and Plaza work although they are asymmetrical. Empire, Regret, and Fathom have symmetry but not a lot of sightlines that’s why they are only used for one game type each.

 

Of the post launch maps, Overgrowth, Riptide, Tyrant, and Molten have almost no cross map sight lines.

Torque, Stasis and Mercy have a few, but if you aren’t up high then you are shit out of luck.

What you're touching on goes a bit deeper than just sightlines but yes that's a big part of it.

 

Its more the the opportunity a map gives you to play creatively and outsmart your opponent. Overtuned sightlines end up getting you something like Fathom or Regret where there's no way to play creatively, make cheeky plays, keep continuous pressure ever across the map, etc. Every time you play most of the maps in H5 you know exactly the play someone will make, it's just a matter of bullrushing to the position first to make it or stop it. The movement in H5 plays SOME role in counteracting the overtuned sightlines but ultimately most of the maps force you to play and progress in very, very specific and overly structured ways that kill creative potential. Almost feel like cod maps in that regard.

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Hey, y'all. There was discussion a couple of pages back about the removal of ground pound and whether that removes the delay you experience when you're trying to jump and melee at the same time. I know some have already confirmed that the delay goes away, but I went a little bit further in analyzing it:

 

Not gonna lie, this bothers the crap out of me... so... SOMEONE'S MELEE WHO DOESN'T JUMP >>>> SOMEONE WHO IS MEELEING MID-AIR?

 

084.png

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I've seen each and every one of those maps from when were first being made and they are all complete and utter garbage. They will without a doubt, fall apart if played competitively.

 

Best case scenario is you might get a working map that's a bore, a middy clone of some sort.

Now I am not saying those are all fantastic looking maps but i believe some of them have a potential and could be a vital addition with some adjustments. It's not like the official Halo 5 maps are that awesome.

 

You might be better at saying what maps are good and what not, but i am not liking your "you will not get a good map from this forge community" attitude at all. Actually i feel a lot of salt and bias here.

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Not gonna lie, this bothers the crap out of me... so... SOMEONE'S MELEE WHO DOESN'T JUMP >>>> SOMEONE WHO IS MEELEING MID-AIR?

 

084.png

 

That was by far the most surprising result. I didn't even think about testing it until this morning. I assumed there wouldn't be any difference. 

 

When you start getting into low frame counts, the results can be tricky. But I'm fairly confident that meleeing from the ground is at least a full frame faster than meleeing in the air when ground pound is disabled. And therefore way faster than meleeing someone in the air with ground pound enabled. 

 

I might have another analysis soon on Fathom CTF. I was already looking into that map/mode last month, and now that it's up for changing, it seems to be relevant enough to examine in depth. I'll be trying to quantify flag standoffs. I really want to know if Fathom CTF matches have more flag standoffs than other CTF maps. 

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Now I am not saying those are all fantastic looking maps but i believe some of them have a potential and could be a vital addition with some adjustments. It's not like the official Halo 5 maps are that awesome.

 

You might be better at saying what maps are good and what not, but i am not liking your "you will not get a good map from this forge community" attitude at all. Actually i feel a lot of salt and bias here.

No salt or bias here lol those are just bad picks. The one chunk linked above is much better than whatever that list provided was. I have a feeling whoever compiled that map list just tweeted "need some good 4v4 maps" and a bunch of self promoting forgers replied with their own projects.

 

And again, most of the really talented long time forgers don't forge 4s in this game, only 2s/BTB.

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They seem so scared to remove Sprint which is literally the ability that speeds up the game that they are trying to slow down. They removed Bloom and Sprint in Reach MLG settings which made the game pretty fucking good. Why are they so hesitant in removing it from H5???

 

I heckin hate sprint halo

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Sprint doesn't speed the game up, it slows it down. There's a reason Halo 5 slayer takes so long.

People always argue over this but its pretty easy to see how it speeds up the pace of returning to the action however the maps are made longer to account for this and causes the average kill to take longer due to just running away/chasing getting more convoluted. So I wouldn't say its definitively faster or slower but it does alter the pace of different parts of the game in different ways

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Sprint doesn't speed the game up, it slows it down. There's a reason Halo 5 slayer takes so long.

Because the respawn is longer than older halos.
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Sprint doesn't speed the game up, it slows it down. There's a reason Halo 5 slayer takes so long.

Oh look a post with absolutely no explanation on how this is true other than "I don't like sprint"

 

Inb4 some explanation about how you can't shoot and sprint at the same time.

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People always argue over this but its pretty easy to see how it speeds up the pace of returning to the action however the maps are made longer to account for this and causes the average kill to take longer due. So I wouldn't say its definitively faster or slower but it does alter the pace of different parts of the game in different ways

This I can agree with. I thought he was referring to the overall length of the game. I'd say it decently shortens time out of combat and drastically increases time in combat or semi combat.

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like Chunk linked above, there are much better 4v4 maps to be played competitively on-stage in Pro Halo then those abominations that would fall apart anyone above Diamond 3 stepped foot on them.

 

Top 3 in your opinion? 

 

I am not part of this current task, other than doing some technical cleanup on the finalists, but i am keenly interested in checking out the maps you believe would be suitable for HCS.

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Top 3 in your opinion?

 

I am not part of this current task, other than doing some technical cleanup on the finalists, but i am keenly interested in checking out the maps you believe would be suitable for HCS.

Fullmetal for sure, I made a post here months back which what i thought were all the quality maps in forge I'll have to dig for it tomorrow morning. Going to the bars rn so I'll get back to you

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Ran a customs lobby tonight going through all 8 maps, each played twice. 

 

Not a single moment of fun was had. 

 

In all fairness, that might just be H5...

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Ran a customs lobby tonight going through all 8 maps, each played twice.

 

Not a single moment of fun was had.

 

In all fairness, that might just be H5...

Not feeling spawns? Bad power weapon layout? Don't like map traversal? Don't like overall map flow?

 

How was performance? Do you think any of these maps could be salvaged? Finally, which was your favorite and least favorite, even though you didn't like them I hope there's one you liked a bit more than the rest.

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