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Halo World Championship 2018 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Saiyan is amazing no doubt, but why Royal 2? Im just curious about the reason because he consistently has the highest K/D on the team with a TON of damage.

He's not fast (compared to splyce). I would rather see him get more aggro and quick though than replace him. I think he can do it.

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Also I think it's interesting that one of the main arguments against things like sprint and thruster etc. is that they actually slow the gameplay down; and now we've got people complaining that Splyce make the game too fast.

It’s not all that interesting. Splyce are the outliers. For most players, all across the skill spectrum, sprint and thrust lead to prolonged engagements. Splyce is just abnormally efficient at A) ending engagements with their high gunskill, despite the movement options their opponents have. and B) cleaning up each other’s kills

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I may be crazy but here is my predictions:

 

Either a standalone open event in like August or September probably in California or something, or one more pro league season.

 

Then Halo 6 in November. They'll announce it at E3 and have a beta this summer. Sort of like how MCC was released the year it was announced. And although they promised a beta they didn't say it would be early in development. I  could be an idiot but I hope I'm right and could honestly see it happening. A E3 announcement+beta announcement, would kill people with hype, instead of the marketing build up, you would see tears in the audience.

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I think Royal 2 is a great player but his stats don't tell the whole story. In the objective games Vs Splyce they were keeping up with slays but still losing. It's cause royal 2 barely plays the objective. Then u look at shotzzy who had 5 flag pulls in the coli flag. Splyce has 4 players who do everything. You need four all round players. I still think replacing Lethul with Saiyan would be better but replacing Royal 2 isn't bad as well.

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He's not fast (compared to splyce). I would rather see him get more aggro and quick though than replace him. I think he can do it.

 

This. Royal 2 can change and adapt his playstyle to be faster, but you can't teach another player to have Royal 2's raw talent. Still has the best shot in H5 imo. 

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It’s not all that interesting. Splyce are the outliers. For most players, all across the skill spectrum, sprint and thrust lead to prolonged engagements. Splyce is just abnormally efficient at A) ending engagements with high their high gunskill despite the movement options their opponents have. and B) cleaning up each other’s kills

Thruster is almost as intrusive as sprint. As someone who has played very little Halo 5, it's really jarring seeing most engagements chopped up with a thrust strafe thrown in by both players. The inherent problems with things like sprint and clamber have been gone over and talked about to death, but thruster is probably the most visually unappealing. 

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You're right on the K/D part, but I think you should recheck his stats for damage this tourney.

 

Disclaimer: It's entirely possible that through the remainder of this post, I'm talking out of my ass based off TOX's current playstyle because I haven't actually reviewed any of their replays since Team Liquid left Halo.  The following information is based off perceptions and assumptions made from my time as Team Liquid's analyst for Halo.

 

When I was working with Team Liquid, I watched a ton of OpTic film.  Especially Royal 2's, because Royal 2 had a fairly rigid playstyle.  He typically plays the outskirts of the map: a very safe playstyle.  On Plaza, he's consistently left on an island by the team to play the isolated area of the map -- the L running from glass through yard to blue.  He plays this very well, and is often alive for a very long period of time because of it.  On Eden, he tends to hang around bases for a long period of time.  This can be great for spawn control.

 

However, where it becomes a problem is when you meet a team that plays, as an entire unit, faster than your team.  Because now either you're getting pushed 2v1, or your teammates are getting pushed 4v3, and because you're on the edges of the map, you're not in a position to relieve the pressure from the enemy team or exert pressure on your own.  I do not think that Royal 2 plays for stats, but the way he does play, he's often not in a position to deal damage with his team; when he's engaging other players, it's either a 1v1, or he's working to deal some chip damage on players pushing out or clean-up damage on players his team has already backed off.  And I think that, in order for TOX to be able to overcome Splyce, the key is in changing that...whether it's through massively overhauling his playstyle, or swapping him out for an incredibly skilled player that exerts a little more pressure on the map.

 

I want to be absolutely clear on one thing here, though: Royal 2 is an absolute monster at Halo.  I just think that, now that a team like Splyce exists, the playstyle I know him for is archaic and abusable, and he may be a liability unless his playstyle changes or has changed.  (Or if Halo returns to a slower pace for the next title, he's back on top.)

 

Who do you think the player was that Shotzzy was talking about?

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snip

 

Great points here, and this is why Splyce's dominance was so fascinating to me even if you dislike the strategy. Halo 5's map and mode design resulted in setups being less effective than previous titles in favor of rotations, which Tox perfected for 2 years. Splyce just blows all that up because the pressure and speed of attack makes it difficult to determine what the right play is if the board changes so rapidly. Royal2's at his best as stated above, and he can't do those things as well against Splyce. Since you can't really outshoot or outmaneuver Splyce either, the only way to control the pace is powerup and power weapon control, and Splyce denied Tox that ruthlessly in both series. 

 

This is like the spread offense coming into college football or Curry shooting 30-foot 3s. The old way of playing only works against opponents who play the same way (like EG at the start of H5 except when they kept running into CLG). It'll be interesting to see how teams try to counter Splyce now since I'm not sure you can play any faster or more aggressively than this.

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Thruster is almost as intrusive as sprint. As someone who has played very little Halo 5, it's really jarring seeing most engagements chopped up with a thrust strafe thrown in by both players. The inherent problems with things like sprint and clamber have been gone over and talked about to death, but thruster is probably the most visually unappealing. 

Many (some) pros actually like thrusters though and mention it as being one of the few things worth keeping. I know Mikwen and Spartan have said as much, others have as well but i can't remember.

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Who do you think the player was that Shotzzy was talking about?

Probably Royal2 reading what audley wrote.  If they isolate and take him out, they have a new quadrant of the map they can push to for free or they know that the other 3 on tox will be more clustered and can push hard 3v4 for at least 8 seconds.

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snip

 

I basically agree with you about Royal 2's playstyle, but I just feel like dropping Royal 2 is a cardinal sin akin to dropping Ola in H3. It doesn't seem like the better option.

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Many (some) pros actually like thrusters though and mention it as being one of the few things worth keeping. I know Mikwen and Spartan have said as much, others have as well but i can't remember.

I'm sure they do. I just personally can't stand it, I think it really chops up the smoothness that Halo used to have, and believe it's right next to sprint on what should be on the chopping block. 

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It wouldn't be a hot take if it seemed like a smart decision.

Yet SK still did it. 

 

And I'm sure he is still regretting it.

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Many (some) pros actually like thrusters though and mention it as being one of the few things worth keeping. I know Mikwen and Spartan have said as much, others have as well but i can't remember.

 

That's kinda how I feel as well. Even if I put myself in the mindset of, "Sprint is inherently bad. Slower more methodical gameplay is better" I still think Thrust and Stabilize add more than they take away. I like Slide as well, but it's pretty well tied to sprint.

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It wouldn't be a hot take if it seemed like a smart decision.

Hypothetically and ignoring his duoship with Snakebite, who would you recommend as a possible replacement to Royal2 to counterSplyce? I think most players they could add makes them weaker against non-Splyce teams, which makes it tricky.

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That's kinda how I feel as well. Even if I put myself in the mindset of, "Sprint is inherently bad. Slower more methodical gameplay is better" I still think Thrust and Stabilize add more than they take away. I like Slide as well, but it's pretty well tied to sprint.

I honestly forgot sliding was a thing in Halo 5 until you mentioned it.

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Does anyone remember in the H2A/MCC days when Ninja was slagging off a very young Shottzy on Twitter for avoiding him in games? Did I dream that?

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what was the viewership for the grand finals?

 

between 25k-30k on twitch. 6-8k on Mix

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Hypothetically and ignoring his duoship with Snakebite, who would you recommend as a possible replacement to Royal2 to counterSplyce? I think most players they could add makes them weaker against non-Splyce teams, which makes it tricky.

 

Gonna assume you missed the other post.

 

My take was specifically "Saiyan in place of Royal 2."

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between 25k-30k on twitch. 6-8k on Mix

 

oooh that's rough. Every year the viewership for champs just keeps going down.

 

2016 - over 100k watched CLG/ALG

2017 - 75k ish watched Optic/EnVy

2018 - 30k ish watched Splyce/TOX

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