Jump to content
CyReN

Halo World Championship 2018 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

Recommended Posts

@@Clap, I'm not familiar with CoD champs but it looks like you had a 32 team group stage followed by a 16 team double elimination bracket. I'm not saying this is good, but it is significantly better than a 16 team group stage and 8 team double elim bracket. Next, you mentioned CSGO which had a near PERFECT group stage format which is swiss. A 16 team swiss bracket determines the top 8 teams. A 16 team 4x4 group stage does not. Not only does a swiss bracket seed you for your next match, which a 4x4 group stage does not, you have to win/lose 3 matches. In the 4x4 group stage, you only have to lose 2 and it is nearly entirely unseeded. 

 

This format for Worlds is simply lazy, along with Cbus which was atrocious for reasons I can go into later but let's focus on Worlds.

CSGO's swiss format simply isn't workable with the time frame, resources and frankly the demand for content comp Halo currently has. The CSGO majors prior to adopting the swiss system (including the major under MLG) were 16 teams, 4 groups GSL style with the bottom two being eliminated and it was arguably more enjoyable as a spectator.

Share this post


Link to post

CSGO's swiss format simply isn't workable with the time frame, resources and frankly the demand for content comp Halo currently has. The CSGO majors prior to adopting the swiss system (including the major under MLG) were 16 teams, 4 groups GSL style with the bottom two being eliminated and it was arguably more enjoyable as a spectator.

I think we could have done it for Cbus, but I would understand not doing it for Worlds. In order to save Worlds, we would just need to send 3rd place to losers bracket instead of eliminating them.

  • Upvote (+1) 5

Share this post


Link to post

For BL5 we ran pools that seeded into a double elimination bracket. I liked that a lot better as there were a few teams in certain pools who lost to 2 teams in pool play but beat the other "top 2" teams in bracket play. It was pretty time consuming though and hard to stay on schedule.

 

For BL6 we ran this current format where top 2 moved on and everyone else was just eliminated. It seemed like the ones who really favored this format were the ones who really felt strongly they were going to make it out. Mostly everyone seemed to agree to it when it was mentioned that it would save a lot of time. A few people changed their minds when they were upset in pools lol. I hope to be able to convince the players to revert back to not being eliminated from pools but we shall see..

 

If time is not a factor I would much rather see teams not eliminated straight from pools, but time is always a factor.

  • Upvote (+1) 5

Share this post


Link to post

I think we could have done it for Cbus, but I would understand not doing it for Worlds. In order to save Worlds, we would just need to send 3rd place to losers bracket instead of eliminating them.

I can see why you as a player would want a second chance for yourself and your peers, especially considering your specific group is probably the tightest. Having said that, as a spectator I want to see the increased pressure in groups, every team in that pool knows the winning conditions and when you play Infused both of you know it's going to be for keeps not just 'I'd rather not go down to the losers bracket'.

 

There are plenty of things that need changing with the current comp circuit and wider generally but I think it can wait until after Worlds. Best of luck this weekend.

  • Upvote (+1) 4

Share this post


Link to post

Feels like the early 2000s again with a post like this from you telling me something we're doing is atrocious!

 

That said, good luck this weekend and safe travels in. We feel the format is fair but I'm happy to listen to feedback on site when you're here.

How many teams are in CoD champs groups? Isn't it 6 or am I remembering something else? Idk I'm afraid we are going to see some teams place 3rd (hello group B and have you seen the scrim scores lately?!) that could beat teams from other pools that will make it out. Seems like with smaller groups and relatively quick games that halo has, we could fit in 4 more series over the 3 days. It being the industry standard doesn't mean we can't strive for something better right?

  • Upvote (+1) 9

Share this post


Link to post

 

If time is not a factor I would much rather see teams not eliminated straight from pools, but time is always a factor.

They play for a week and try to cram a tournament into 2 days. Times doesn't need to be a factor for the BL tourney, they just choose to make it one. They could do an FFA tournament one night, pool play another night, and bracket play the following night.

Share this post


Link to post

I dont see a problem with the current format, if you play your ENTIRE POOL and you don't make top 2, you are probably not making top 8 anyway. Some miracle runs happen every so often but that doesn't really happen THAT often.

  • Upvote (+1) 4
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I dont see a problem with the current format, if you play your ENTIRE POOL and you don't make top 2, you are probably not making top 8 anyway. Some miracle runs happen every so often but that doesn't really happen THAT often.

But then there are some pools like with infused and oxy where both teams are more than capable of placing top 6 and beating teams in other pools but one of them is going to place 9th-16th because of this format.
  • Upvote (+1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

But then there are some pools like with infused and oxy where both teams are more than capable of placing top 6 and beating teams in other pools but one of them is going to place 9th-16th because of this format.

That is correct but they will have to do so in their respective pools, we can't be seriously asking 

 

- That the 3rd place goes to losers bracket 

- Series to be BO7(including losers bracket)

- Tournament to not end absurdly late ( and it is going to be PST so it's going to suck for the majority of the viewership aka East Coast)

 

It seems like a compromise to have to pick 2 of those 3 options but IMO it's really not (for reasons that I mentioned in my previous post, you will have to play BO5 matches to prove you belong in the top 8).

 

Something that WOULD be nice( and I think MLG should consider) is pitting those 3rd places against each other to determine who is actually better in a single elim bracket (on the side).

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

We're not cutting any corners. Every team gets the opportunity to place top 2 in a 4 team pool in a round robin format to advance. That is absolutely a fair metric and at some point, teams need to get eliminated. Groups/pools is a logical elimination point and has been a standard industry wide for many prestigious events.

i just feel like this favors the NA teams since there is no other point throughout the year that anz or latam or even eu get to play us. at this point it seems like a "thanks for coming enjoy your saturday/sunday" i get that the best teams will top pools and those are the teams we generally want to see, but with so little time in the lime light, i would love to give the outlier regions a little more love and screen time.

 

honestly i'd love to see more international competition throughout the year (LoL msi/rift rivals/worlds style) but thats a whole different conversation

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

That is correct but they will have to do so in their respective pools, we can't be seriously asking

 

- That the 3rd place goes to losers bracket

- Series to be BO7(including losers bracket)

- Tournament to not end absurdly late ( and it is going to be PST so it's going to suck for the majority of the viewership aka East Coast)

 

It seems like a compromise to have to pick 2 of those 3 options but IMO it's really not (for reasons that I mentioned in my previous post, you will have to play BO5 matches to prove you belong in the top 8).

 

Something that WOULD be nice( and I think MLG should consider) is pitting those 3rd places against each other to determine who is actually better in a single elim bracket (on the side).

Then have them be best of 5s for the first round or just first round of losers. They managed to do this at Orlando plus an entire open bracket in 1 weekend just fine.
  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Is there really any case where a team that places 3rd in pools is going to place top 4?  I mean, come on ... the only people who should be complaining about this are the handful of pros on top 9-12 teams who are worried about losing a small pay jump, I don't see how watching the somewhat-pro teams get demolished in LBR1 is really that big of a deal. 

 

Adam mentioned CS:GO etc., but this is also precisely the format that the OSL/MSL/GSL uses for Starcraft, pool play and then single-elim bracket (with the top 2 from each pool), it's worked fine there for many years

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

There is nothing wrong with the format. If you weren't getting out of groups your chances of winning a single game in losers bracket is pretty low. 

 

I cant agree any more with this post. I try have a chat about a game of Halo with Dave these days rather than telling people what was on screen, infront of them, what they can see... hyper play by play and forced hype is something weve all done and all do starting out but we are or should be beyond that now.

 

And that is why you and Walshy are the best duo in Halo casting ATM. Never stop working to raise the bar, because watching your growth as a caster over the years has been really fun to watch.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.