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Halo World Championship 2018 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Apparently two of the Psychotic Gaming players cant get a visa so that team has picked up two new players. That really sucks to see. 

 

I'm so tired of seeing this happen over and over again.

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good points, but i would counter with mlg vods, h3 theater and forge, 150-200 team tourneys, and consistent lan experience against each other. classic halo had a lot things going for the competitive integrity for it. the biggest advantage current halo has is salaries. that money advantage helped fb and str8 though it didnt stop them from falling from the top. having to constantly battle on lan vs online is more impressive to me especially when you consider that the core of final boss (walshy, ogre 1/2) won events over 3 halo games and shadowrun)

 

Halo 3 Theatre and Forge isn't a very strong or valid point -- the core Final Boss 3 only won a single event together in Halo 3.  After that, they finished 7th and 5th before dropping Walshy.

 

The only concession I'll really give is to those who say there was -more- competition in the olden days, because more people were playing and enjoying the games.  But it's easier to stay at the top when no one has tools to really -look- at what you were doing to be successful.

 

 

But to that, I counter with a question:  Is it more impressive if a black belt wins 10 consecutive tournaments facing 7 other black belts and 20 toddlers, or if they do it versus 2 other black belts and 250 toddlers?

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Halo 3 Theatre and Forge isn't a very strong or valid point -- the core Final Boss 3 only won a single event together in Halo 3.  After that, they finished 7th and 5th before dropping Walshy.

 

The only concession I'll really give is to those who say there was -more- competition in the olden days, because more people were playing and enjoying the games.  But it's easier to stay at the top when no one has tools to really -look- at what you were doing to be successful.

 

 

But to that, I counter with a question:  Is it more impressive if a black belt wins 10 consecutive tournaments facing 7 other black belts and 20 toddlers, or if they do it versus 2 other black belts and 250 toddlers?

 

Would you rather fight 1 horse sized duck or 100 duck sized horses?

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Would you rather fight 1 horse sized duck or 100 duck sized horses?

 

100 duck-sized horses, easily.  I mean, apart from trying to afford 100 duck-sized-horse-sized saddles after I tame them all.

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But to that, I counter with a question:  Is it more impressive if a black belt wins 10 consecutive tournaments facing 7 other black belts and 20 toddlers, or if they do it versus 2 other black belts and 250 toddlers?

i dont think the am competition was that weak though. i obviously dont know but i would imagine that scrims happened just as much if not more often than now allowing teams to practice against each other more

 

as to your question, i think its more impressive to win regularly and in the dominitefashion fb showed on the lan circuit vs the system that esl had in place that basically stifled am competition. clg/optic/tox has been incredibly good and consistent, but since dominating worlds last year have only won 2 of their last 7 events. their dominance started with @@LethuL joining and seems to have "peaked" with hwc 2017. never placing lower than second is a damn fine achievment but they are not final boss level yet. they need to win worlds before that discussion can kick in

 

you cant overcome my nostalgia

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I may or may not be Sprinty Boi. It all depends why you're asking

 

I saw Sprinty Boi DNF a game against 3/4 of RNG on Halo5Arena while getting duked on iirc from this morning.

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I saw Sprinty Boi DNF a game against 3/4 of RNG on Halo5Arena while getting duked on iirc from this morning.

yeah it's me, not from this morning though.
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yeah it's me, not from this morning though.

Sorry the game was from yesterday or the day before, i just checked Halo5Arena this morning.

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I think it just depends on what your criteria is for a hypothetical bracket like this.

 

The argument can definitely be made that CLG/Optic, out of all the Halo teams, has had the hardest-earned victories and if that's what you want to use to determine your rankings I buy it. 

 

Personally I like to look at how dominant a team was at their peak relative to the competition they were playing, which gives me a final 4 of like

  • 07 FB (shit ton of tournament victories, didn't drop a game at Vegas)
  • 2010 FB (only team to win 3 consecutive H3 events)
  • 2011 Instinct (maybe the most dominant, dropped 1 game over 2 consecutive events)
  • CLG/Optic (back to back world championships in dominating fashion for the most part)

I didn't intentionally pick a team from different games btw. 

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I don’t think clg/optic/tox made it near FB levels. It’s hard to make an argument when the h5 competitive population is a fraction of what the golden halo days were. Unless h6 explodes in popularity and tox is still at the top, then we can talk.

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One thing that has to be considered too is how much more relevant esports have become. Even though the overall population for Halo 5 is less than past titles it is highly likely that a higher percentage of the population knows about and can participate more easily in tournaments with online play being more prevalent. Just something to consider.

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I agree with Tibby about Halo 2 at least.

 

I don't. There is no escaping the fact that Halo competition was on the rise at that point. It will always be more impressive to win during an era of increased competition than it is during a stagnant or declining one. Doesn't matter if teams study their competition more now or not. It's still less competition.

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But to that, I counter with a question:  Is it more impressive if a black belt wins 10 consecutive tournaments facing 7 other black belts and 20 toddlers, or if they do it versus 2 other black belts and 250 toddlers?

 

 

yeah this is Lethul's argument as to why H5 accomplishments are actually quite meaningful ... even Ogre 2 pointed out (in a TLN interview in ~2010?) that the competition below about the top 4 teams was basically garbage until the end of H3, despite the massive player base.  

 

I don't think that theater mode / forge practice / having access to comms has quite as much of an effect as you're thinking ... this isn't Brood War, where getting opponents FPSVOD/replays was a massive advantage (due to the very high level of strategic play).  Top H5 players already understand how to play the game, it's not 11-dimensional chess or whatever, though certainly there are marginal advantages to studying with all the new tools available

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Nothing will compare to the level of competition from 2007 -2010. Winning then meant so much more.

 

If you could send Formal, Frosty or Shotzy back in time I am sure they would've THRIVED but that isn't the point.

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I think another thing to keep in mind is that the idea of Halo as a career was a much less ubiquitous idea than it is now. Most up-and-comers understand the concept of the grind and the rigors of playing games professionally. I remember reading about early Halo CE pros mentioning that they barely played and would just shake the rust off a week or so before events.

 

Nowadays, the grind is an expected thing, and everyone wants to be a pro, but it doesn't just happen through a normal course of playing and being passionate about a game. It takes concentrated work and deliberate attempts at individual improvement, and the teams that figured that out early were the ones that dominated during Halo CE and 2. I remember reading an interview with Walshy and he was talking about writing up strategies while he was at school and thinking "man, that sounds cool", but in the end, I just wanted to play the game and get his results by the osmosis of repeated exposure rather than study.

 

While I will never personally think of a team as more dominant than Final Boss '07 (much like I think that the '04 ALCS could have ended baseball on its highest note), I absolutely think there's merit to the idea that OpToxCLG is THE dynasty of Halo because they did it in the era of the grind and the proliferation of the idea of a professional esports player.

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@JDunley on twitter is trying to troll Ninja by blaming one of his followers for the shooting today and people are retweeting!

 

edit: twitter is a mess of false reports right now and people are hopping on anything they can find. 

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