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Halo World Championship 2018 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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I don't mind this psuedorandom drawing instead of using the standard procedure, but I agree that they need to do this live.

Agree 100%. I personally don't mind it even though it may come off as I do. Main issue is there's no reason to draw the worlds pools live but not do the qualifying event live. Seems very odd

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I think there has been some misuse of words here. Groups for regionals def can't be random.

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I think there has been some misuse of words here. Groups for regionals def can't be random.

 

Exactly. Why should the 9th ranked team hypothetically get grouped up with the 1st and 5th ranked teams but a team with less points get to play lower ranked teams in there pool? Yes, they would still have to upset a top 8 team to get top 2 in their pool but they earned seed/points and that comes with lesser competition to advance. This is a potential shit storm.

 

 

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You do realize this would still be the same thing if the pools were set-up in a standard fashion, correct? 1-8-9-16, 2-7-10-15. Might be entertaining to you, but if the pools aren't drawn in front of our faces then it seems like they're rigging it. Which I don't doubt lol

It's not the same because there isnt a risk of a tough pool. Youre playing the same level of teams, but the excitement is in the potential matchups

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that's the problem, it's not fair

 

it might be more entertaining but this isn't prize fighting, it's supposed to be a esport

Well the primary purpose of an esport is entertainment (at least for the companies running it).
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I wonder how the pros would feel if they used seeds to determine pools because I'm pretty sure it would look like this:

 

Pool A: 1, 8, 9, 16

Pool B: 2, 7, 10, 15

Pool D: 3, 6, 11, 14

Pool D: 4, 5, 12, 13

 

)

monstcr and rammyy were nice enough to tell me the rosters, shout out to them

 

A07JyR5.png

That would be

 

 

Nv

Fyra

Contra dan monster bxby j

Shooter fal tapping dan

 

 

That pool would have been murder

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Exactly. Why should the 9th ranked team hypothetically get grouped up with the 1st and 5th ranked teams but a team with less points get to play lower ranked teams in there pool? Yes, they would still have to upset a top 8 team to get top 2 in their pool but they earned seed/points and that comes with lesser competition to advance. This is a potential shit storm.

 

 

this doesn’t make any sense. Even if they distribute seeds in standard fashion, you’ll still have scenarios where a lower seed has some easier matchups.

 

Pool A: 1, 8, 12, 16

Pool B: 2, 7, 11, 15

Pool D: 3, 6, 10, 14

Pool D: 4, 5, 9 , 13

 

For example- Since it’s standard groups are designed to give 1 seed the easiest group, 8th seed gets two opponents who are weaker than the opponents 5th seed has to go against.

 

Even with these randomized groupings- each group will have one top4 team, one 5-8, one 9-12 team, one 13-16 team. If teams can’t beat the teams they are expected to, then they really have nothing to complain about. This tournament is designed to find the 9 best in NA, and nothing about its design will prevent this from happening. There’s nothing unfair about this.

 

It’s statistically sound. The only real concern is they arent doing a live drawing.

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It's not the same because there isnt a risk of a tough pool. Youre playing the same level of teams, but the excitement is in the potential matchups

 

 

That would be

 

 

Nv

Fyra

Contra dan monster bxby j

Shooter fal tapping dan

 

 

That pool would have been murder

How isn't there a risk for a tough pool if this pool can still technically happen? I'm very confused on what you're saying here

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this doesn’t make any sense. Even if they distribute seeds in standard fashion, you’ll still have scenarios where a lower seen has some easier matchups.

 

Pool A: 1, 8, 12, 16

Pool B: 2, 7, 11, 15

Pool D: 3, 6, 10, 14

Pool D: 4, 5, 9 , 13

 

For example- Since it’s standard groups are designed to give 1 seed the easiest group, 8th seed gets two opponents who are weaker than the opponents 5th seed has to go against.

 

Even with these randomized groupings- each group will have one top4 team, one 5-8, one 9-12 team, one 13-16 team. If teams can’t beat the teams they are expected to, then they really have nothing to complain about. This tournament is designed to find the 9 best in NA, and nothing about its design will prevent this from happening. There’s nothing unfair about this.

 

It’s statistically sound. The only real concern is they arent doing a live drawing.

Its all down to whether or not a small number of points, gained by individual players (or teams in the 2ks), should matter when being placed into pools.  If a team has 150 more points at 15th seed than the team at 16th seed does it matter that much if they get put in a pool with the 9th seeded, 10th, 11th or 12th seeded team which could also be seperated by a small number of points gained in the same way.

 

I agree that the method they have chosen is statistically sound and removes small points differences gained by getting bracket fucked in a single elim online tourney or through playing PP as an individual.  On the flip side i can also see why some people would be a little pissed/confused.

 

Regardless of the above, the drawing should definitely be done live though.

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Its all down to whether or not a small number of points, gained by individual players (or teams in the 2ks), should matter when being placed into pools. If a team has 150 more points at 15th seed than the team at 16th seed does it matter that much if they get put in a pool with the 9th seeded, 10th, 11th or 12th seeded team which could also be seperated by a small number of points gained in the same way.

 

I agree that the method they have chosen is statistically sound and removes small points differences gained by getting bracket fucked in a single elim online tourney or through playing PP as an individual. On the flip side i can also see why some people would be a little pissed/confused.

 

Regardless of the above, the drawing should definitely be done live though.

The whole point of groupings is that they use head-to-head to average out any irregularities from the regular season. Any the team changes, regional skill differences, bracket fuckery etc are calibrated out.

 

These Pools are to figure out who the real top 8 are on game day. Simply put, regardless of how the groups are seeded, they way the are distributing it guarantees that if a team can’t win 2of3 matches, they have no argument for a top 8 seed in the bracket. Once you get to the bracket, it’s double elim, which will again calibrate any errors.

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Everyone try to support the stream tomorrow if you can. Good luck to both competitors and folks at ESL Australia !

 

KGjKdWC.png

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The whole point of groupings is that they use head-to-head to average out any irregularities from the regular season. Any the team changes, regional skill differences, bracket fuckery etc are calibrated out.

 

These Pools are to figure out who the real top 8 are on game day. Simply put, regardless of how the groups are seeded, they way the are distributing it guarantees that if a team can’t win 2of3 matches, they have no argument for a top 8 seed in the bracket. Once you get to the bracket, it’s double elim, which will again calibrate any errors.

 

The fuck are you talking about? If im the 9th seeded team, Id rather play 4, 8, and 16 to win the 2 series ill most likely need to move on. How the fuck would 1, 5, and 13 be considered no real difference in your mind?

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The fuck are you talking about? If im the 9th seeded team, Id rather play 4, 8, and 16 to win the 2 series ill most likely need to move on. How the fuck would 1, 5, and 13 be considered no real difference in your mind?

Pool A: 1, 8, 12, 16

Pool B: 2, 7, 11, 15

Pool D: 3, 6, 10, 14

Pool D: 4, 5, 9 , 13

 

look at the numbers and calm down (seriously... you mad?) the above is standard.

 

look who 5 is up against. now look who 8 is up against. 8th is up against the weaker of bottom half.

 

13 has to upset 4/5 and 9 to make the bracket.

16 has to upset 1/8 and 12 is that fair that 16 gets 2 weaker opponents?

 

it's literally IMPOSSIBLE to design groups such that the difficulty is the inverse of everyone's ranking of there are more than 8 teams. arguing that it should be designed around who 9th seed "would rather" play is dumb. the standard distribution doesn't even give 9th seed the easier top 8 competition, as you can see above.

 

as its set, it's an accurate way to find the true top 9. if you're 9th seed and want to make the champ bracket,

you have to knock out a top 8 team. is there some huge skill gap between 5 and 8 that's gonna see 9th seed get fucked while 10 walks into the bracket?

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"We have folks on the team whose job it is to look further ahead – beyond this current update work – and imagine an exciting possible future where MCC continues to grow and evolve over time."

 

Is this where I get super pumped for a potential H3A until I'm brutally shot down again?

 

 

-Oceanic Squad roster-

 

Damn. That's a lot of slaying power between Tapping and Dan, a dirty work player in Falcated, and a shot caller in Shooter. I hope they click.

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 If teams can’t beat the teams they are expected to, then they really have nothing to complain about. This tournament is designed to find the 9 best in NA, and nothing about its design will prevent this from happening. There’s nothing unfair about this.

it's unfair that (#1) splyce or (#2) optic could end up having (#5) renegades or (#6) elevate in their pool when they should have (#7) oxygen supremacy or (#8) Str8 based upon points

 

G4dgecA.png

 

i really don't see the appeal of drawing the pools randomly or understand the logic behind thinking 5-8 / 9-12 / 13-16 are all somehow equally skilled

 

it's also a big slap in the face to everyone who invested a lot of time grinding GBs and placed well in the 2k events IMO

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this doesn’t make any sense. Even if they distribute seeds in standard fashion, you’ll still have scenarios where a lower seed has some easier matchups.

 

Pool A: 1, 8, 12, 16

Pool B: 2, 7, 11, 15

Pool D: 3, 6, 10, 14

Pool D: 4, 5, 9 , 13

 

For example- Since it’s standard groups are designed to give 1 seed the easiest group, 8th seed gets two opponents who are weaker than the opponents 5th seed has to go against.

 

Even with these randomized groupings- each group will have one top4 team, one 5-8, one 9-12 team, one 13-16 team. If teams can’t beat the teams they are expected to, then they really have nothing to complain about. This tournament is designed to find the 9 best in NA, and nothing about its design will prevent this from happening. There’s nothing unfair about this.

 

It’s statistically sound. The only real concern is they arent doing a live drawing.

 

They're still separating it in tiers, as in seeds 1-4 will be in their own pool aka the best in their pool, and any 5-8th team will be the 2nd best in their pool. It's not as random as you would assume. The only thing that's meh is not doing it live. a 9-12 team will still be in a pool with a top 4 team AND a top 5-8 team. The only difference is you can't predict what pool you get aka not do well in a 2k on purpose or do a certain amount of GBs to get a certain seed/pool.

 

Between these 2 posts i'm convinced its fine now. No incentive for teams to throw in their 2k's and there is still always a clear 1-4th best team per group.  Was against initially as a knee-jerk reaction BUT they should be doing the drawing live.  Even if its just @@Clap or @@Tashi and friends standing in front of the fridge in the break room.

 

8BqLt3v.gif

 

Please

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all this self imposed drama

 

JtXp2Cn.png

 

i really don't understand not taking 30min - 1 hour to do drawings and evaluate match ups. that would be a pretty hype stream to me. just fire up the twitch channel or use mlg.tv and go. you could have walshy, @@TheSimms, @@Wonderboy, @@Onset, etc there or on skype to discuss seedings, matchups, and give predictions.

 

 

it's unfair that (#1) splyce or (#2) optic could end up having (#5) renegades or (#6) elevate in their pool when they should have (#7) oxygen supremacy or (#8) Str8 based upon points

 

G4dgecA.png

 

i really don't see the appeal of drawing the pools randomly or understand the logic behind thinking 5-8 / 9-12 / 13-16 are all somehow equally skilled

 

it's also a big slap in the face to everyone who invested a lot of time grinding GBs and placed well in the 2k events IMO

 i mean there is a bigger gap in points between seeds 1 and 4 than 5 and 16. we are pretty top heavy but the skill gap between the tier 2 - tier 4 teams isnt all that big/ teams 10, 13, and 15 are the only ones i can see falling to the bottom and going winless but oceanic at 14th seed could have easily been a tier 2 team if tapping had been in the na GBs

 

i could see random seeding being a bigger deal if worlds was the actual accumulation of a year of playing vs 2 month of GBs and 1 tourney(i dont really know how teams that havent changed have different points among their members). the randomization makes sense to shake up the groups a little and keep some integrity since rosters just locked and it prevents teams for forming to obtain a seed. the latter didnt happen but when roster lock is so close to an important event, you dont want to see teams try to seed themselves

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4 fishbowls

4 pieces of folded paper in each

Streamed on twitch

 

It could be 5 minutes long for all I care.

If it’s not at least recorded everyone will have doubts about if it was “fixed”. Why not remove as much of that as you can? Remember the graphics issues last year and the conspiracy theories that immediately popped up?

 

Also do we know how the groups populate the brackets? Having it random and getting a tougher group might mean an easier braket. If I was a top seed that would be preferable to me.

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the randomization makes sense to shake up the groups a little 

why is this a good thing lol

 

 

 and keep some integrity since rosters just locked and it prevents teams for forming to obtain a seed. 

why is this an issue, teams have done just that all season long

 

you earn the points, and then you form the best team you can based upon the points you earned

 

 

iKzDYMD.png

 

why do it randomly when you could... not do it randomly

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I don't mind the randomness of a drawing but I understand why the people who have worked hard to get their points/seeds would be upset. I would love for it to be live and then like someone else said have casters analyze the matchups/groups similar to like the World Cup or the NCAA Basketball tournament. Hell they could do it right after the ANZ finals this weekend! I feel like with only 32 teams that the stream won't go as long as planned (It felt like to me the EU streams were ending earlier than planned) and they would have 30-60 minutes at the end to do this. 

 

Speaking of Im pretty excited to watch the ANZ qualifier starting tonight. I don't think I will be able to stay up late tonight to watch but Im going to try to watch it all on Friday and Saturday night. Was very impressed by Mindfreak at Orlando and they've dominated the 2Ks so I expect them to win but it will be interesting to see what team gets 2nd and qualifies for Worlds. 

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why is this a good thing lol

 

why is this an issue, teams have done just that all season long

 

you earn the points, and then you form the best team you can based upon the points you earned

 

 

iKzDYMD.png

 

why do it randomly when you could... not do it randomly

Based on the pro points groups doesn't the 12th seed have the easiest group for their respective section (9th-12th)?

 

Ie: for 9th to get into the top 8 they'd have to beat the 5th and 13th seed. For 12th to get into top 8 they need to beat the 8th and 16th seed. That doesn't seem very fair...

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why do it randomly when you could... not do it randomly

 

Just a heads up, most of the times when they do "not random seeded" groups, the groups are like bracket quadrants.

 

1-8-9-16, 2-7-10-15, 3-6-11-14, 4-5-12-13.

 

I'm not sure what your 1-8-12-16 thing is.

 

 

 

At any rate, the random-draw-based-off-tier is a superior method in the case of "These Groups Feed a Bracket" (but not "These Groups Qualify You For Worlds and Then Are Useless")

 

In the "These Groups Feed a Bracket" time, by having the groups not set up as 1-8-9-16, you can have the groups pre-seed the bracket by having random tiered groups, so you don't have bracket draw rigging accusations, but if you go with 1-8-9-16 group for a seeded bracket, then you basically just have the teams in the same bracket quadrant play each other unless you randomize the bracket.

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