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Halo World Championship 2018 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Part of me wants to believe that this is a ploy so when they reverse it back to pistol they have good PR going for them when they announce the TO isn’t MLG.

 

Maybe I’m nuts and 4D chess has gone to my head...either way guys let’s keep it civil and insults to a minimum. It’s the holidays and stuff :)

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People knowing ahead of time that there are cosmetic lootboxes doesnt erase the fact that its manipulative.

 

Lootboxes are slot machines. Slot machines are manipulative. Yes people know they are manipulative going in. Yes it's their fault. It's still manipulative.

i guess i dont understand how it is manipulative. "hey pay for a chance to get this cool skin." do you think they should tell you the odds or just purchase the items outright?

 

and again i think the who legislation misses the mark. the loot boxes aren't the issue. its a company lying about the product and expecting you to continue to pay to complete the product. honestly, its the same kind of outrage that we had after mcc launched and no man's sky and destiny. we bought someting being told it was complete and functional but were given a pile of shit. what makes destiny and swbf2 so aweful is that it works, but they put what we should have been given at the beginning behind a paywall. that is so much worse to me than rng lootboxes. at least i don't ever have to buy those to enjoy my game

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Part of me wants to believe that this is a ploy so when they reverse it back to pistol they have good PR going for them when they announce the TO isn’t MLG.

 

Maybe I’m nuts and 4D chess has gone to my head...either way guys let’s keep it civil and insults to a minimum. It’s the holidays and stuff :)

 

I hope the Lions win because you won't be beating the Ravens. 

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Lets not start a whole thing judging what other people do with their own money shall we?

I spend roughly $30 a week on Pokémon card packs. Some people would probably call me an idiot for that.

 

There was a short period where I used to spend over $200 a week on drugs. Which was undeniably idiotic.

 

Point is I tend to not to judge when people spend money on things I find strange because it could be a lot more money on things that are a lot worse.

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We all have our vices - I don't care about blowing money on frivolous things. What I meant is that it doesn't sound fun that money is required to be competitive. 

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Ooof this reminds me...you member when Diablo 3 had the Real Money Auction House? Less RNG but literally p2w. Some people were making thousands or 10's of thousands.

 

the reason that existed, and why wow tokens exist, is to stop the flow of funds to Chinese labor camps forcing kids to farm gold to sell to the western gamers. I actually understand why those systems were put in place, EA is literally just being predatory for a profit. 

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Part of me wants to believe that this is a ploy so when they reverse it back to pistol they have good PR going for them when they announce the TO isn’t MLG.

 

Maybe I’m nuts and 4D chess has gone to my head...either way guys let’s keep it civil and insults to a minimum. It’s the holidays and stuff :)

 

4D Chess?  I thought we were playing Candy Land

 

 

1Ia3DTu.png

 

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Not much you can do about one person spending 10k on microtransactions. All it takes is a handful of whales for microtransactions to be lucrative.

 

I'm not just talking about micro-transactions, though. I'm talking about underlying issues in AAA games that have gotten worse for years and have been tacitly supported by people buying broken, incomplete, manipulative yearly entries with worthless season passes. It's not just the whales who have shown with their wallets that they will pay for  shiny dopamine vending machines.

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I've enjoyed this game for two years, definitely the best Halo since H3, but I've barely touched it since the update (the longest I've ever gone without playing H5, easily).  The good news is that I'm finally replaying W3 with all DLC ... 'Blood and Wine' is the bomb

 

 

 

I think after the way this update went, I'm for the first time going to be a wait-and-see buyer for Halo 6. For some stupid reason I've bought all of 343's titles in pre-order, because I'm a Halo fan who hasn't accepted how dangerously close this title is to obscurity.

 

 

I can't do it again. I waited on D2 and although the game looks fun, I'm glad I held out, as I don't want to purchase it. They're going to have to show some real progress back towards Halo if there's any chance I buy the next one.

 

 

 

That's more painful to say than I want it to be.

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i guess i dont understand how it is manipulative. "hey pay for a chance to get this cool skin." do you think they should tell you the odds or just purchase the items outright?

 

and again i think the who legislation misses the mark. the loot boxes aren't the issue. its a company lying about the product and expecting you to continue to pay to complete the product. honestly, its the same kind of outrage that we had after mcc launched and no man's sky and destiny. we bought someting being told it was complete and functional but were given a pile of shit. what makes destiny and swbf2 so aweful is that it works, but they put what we should have been given at the beginning behind a paywall. that is so much worse to me than rng lootboxes. at least i don't ever have to buy those to enjoy my game

It's manipulative in the sense that it helps feed addictions, and in both games' cases; feeding kids' addictions, while hiding the fact that it is gambling and gambling is addictive. All the while making it worse by having features such as a cool animation and/or sound when you open a loot box, very similar to slot machines.

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i guess i dont understand how it is manipulative. "hey pay for a chance to get this cool skin." do you think they should tell you the odds or just purchase the items outright?

 

and again i think the who legislation misses the mark. the loot boxes aren't the issue. its a company lying about the product and expecting you to continue to pay to complete the product. honestly, its the same kind of outrage that we had after mcc launched and no man's sky and destiny. we bought someting being told it was complete and functional but were given a pile of shit. what makes destiny and swbf2 so aweful is that it works, but they put what we should have been given at the beginning behind a paywall. that is so much worse to me than rng lootboxes. at least i don't ever have to buy those to enjoy my game

I don't think its really about people knowing the odds (although it is that way in China for loot boxes) and its more about not exposing children to unhealthy habits before they're really old enough to handle the consequences appropriately. Its also sort of on the parents for letting it happen at times by not doing enough research on what they buy for kids but its honestly very shady that they even include elements like what SWBF2 had in games that often appeal to younger kids. Now if adults want to go spending a shit load of money on this crap that's fine and its their life but companies shouldn't be allowed to market things like this to kids. Their games should be age restricted and it should be plainly stated that the game includes gambling and subject to gambling laws (they exist for a reason) if they're going to do this

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So gambling or taking any risk at all would be considered manipulative in your eyes.

Gambling is manipulative. Not just in my eyes, but factually.

 

Look up Skinner psychology

 

For the record, I'm not opposed to gambling or anything. It's fun to me occasionally, but i don't allow myself to be victimized by the manipulation. other people have addictive tendencies and aren't as good with restraint. Just calling a spade a spade.

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i guess i dont understand how it is manipulative. "hey pay for a chance to get this cool skin." do you think they should tell you the odds or just purchase the items outright?

 

It's manipulative because they are using people's psychological weaknesses or addictive tendencies against them.

 

They are Skinner boxes.

 

Yes displaying odds would be (a little) less manipulative. And allowing people to buy outright would be infinitely less manipulative.

 

Again, as an adult, I'm not really against this stuff simply because it's manipulative. If someone wants to gamble, that's on them. I don't like how it's being marketed to kids.

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Hearthstone is pretty much lootboxes. The price to keep up on that game is absurd. I just started this year so I've had to spend $400 to catch up with the meta decks and I don't even have close to all the cards.

I think that is pretty standard for cards games

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Again, as an adult, I'm not really against this stuff simply because it's manipulative. If someone wants to gamble, that's on them. I don't like how it's being marketed to kids.

Completely agree. Adults are allowed to make their own mistakes. We can drink and smoke and gamble in casinos where the odds are stacked against us all day if we choose. But we go into these activities with open eyes for the most part. Everyone knows the dangers of drinking and driving, everyone knows cigarettes give you cancer, everyone knows gambling can be addictive. I mean hell, my local casino has the number for The National Council on Problem Gambling in the elevators.The fact that these systems prey heavily on kids, with no concept of gambling and little understanding of the actual value of money is the issue. Intelligent adults can be overcome by gambling addiction, while conscious of the fact that they have a gambling addiction, while conscious of the fact that their gambling addiction is ruining their life. There's no way you can expect some 13 year old to cope with that when you put the casino in a Star Wars video game. 

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It's manipulative in the sense that it helps feed addictions, and in both games' cases; feeding kids' addictions, while hiding the fact that it is gambling and gambling is addictive. All the while making it worse by having features such as a cool animation and/or sound when you open a loot box, very similar to slot machines.

 

 

I don't think its really about people knowing the odds (although it is that way in China for loot boxes) and its more about not exposing children to unhealthy habits before they're really old enough to handle the consequences appropriately. Its also sort of on the parents for letting it happen at times by not doing enough research on what they buy for kids but its honestly very shady that they even include elements like what SWBF2 had in games that often appeal to younger kids. Now if adults want to go spending a shit load of money on this crap that's fine and its their life but companies shouldn't be allowed to market things like this to kids. Their games should be age restricted and it should be plainly stated that the game includes gambling and subject to gambling laws (they exist for a reason) if they're going to do this

these are valid points, but going back to overwatch, and playing some devil's advocate, you could then argue that the game itself is just as addictive. getting exp and seeing your rank rise and fall with pretty colors and flashing lights triggers that same rewards system that the lootboxes do. what we might call a grind to rank progress may be destructive to some and the game wants you in front of it as much as possible. if someone has the same tendancy to get addicted to lootboxes, they will probably be addicted to the game which can be just as harmful.

 

so what is the line we want to draw? is it keeping kids from spending their parents money? or is it enticing kids by triggering addictive tendencies? if it is just the money, then the responsibility lies on the parents to protect their accounts. if it is the addictive tendencies, then we could be seeing a lot of changes to the gaming world

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I actually have a little hope for H6. I think there is still a chance that it could be a classic style game judging by one thing and one thing only - development time.

 

H5 started being made in 2012 right after H4 was released, but before the MOST complaints about the new style. Yes, I know people complained about Reach but H4 had a very weird cycle being the first game by a new company and CoD being huge at the time. So most of the design ideas for H5 were already in place and games have strict deadlines so them really making any major changes would be unlikely. Also I think it is interesting to point out that CoD Advanced Warfare and Titansfall both came out in 2014 the start of the advanced mobility trend. We all like to think that Halo followed them but remember H5 was started in 2012 and AW was the first CoD with a 3 year development cycle meaning it was started in 2011. What I'm getting at is there are obviously lots of backroom discussion, predictions, polling, focus groups and so on, that actually decide game design decisions.  Obviously, people polled in 2011-2013 really liked advanced mobility so all the major games reacted to those groups, not necessarily each other. 

 

For more "proof" ww2 has almost certainly been in development since 2014 or 2015, before most of the complaints about Blops3 and IW were really becoming popular. So ww2 predicted that people would become tired of advanced mobility before blops3 or IW for sure, even came out. 

 

I feel like the popular opinion right now is that 343 should have followed ww2 because it's being so successful but it's probably too late, and they kept up the advanced mobility trend because they thought it would keep being popular. 

 

My thought is, whatever focus group or foresight that woke CoD up 3 years ago, woke Halo up 2 years ago. 

Maybe this is all too hopeful or I wasn't articulate enough to even communicate my idea. But it was a thought that popped in my head yesterday. Obviously there are some problems with this theory, 1. That 343 is smart enough to listen to and follow the feedback I hope they got and 2. that I'm right about any of this. 

 

So to sum it up, Halo obviously predicted or listened to some focus group that wanted advance mobility before AW or Titansfall came out, and now I hope they also listened and predicted the trend towards the classic style that ww2 and Battlefield 1 followed. 

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these are valid points, but going back to overwatch, and playing some devil's advocate, you could then argue that the game itself is just as addictive. getting exp and seeing your rank rise and fall with pretty colors and flashing lights triggers that same rewards system that the lootboxes do. what we might call a grind to rank progress may be destructive to some and the game wants you in front of it as much as possible. if someone has the same tendancy to get addicted to lootboxes, they will probably be addicted to the game which can be just as harmful.

 

so what is the line we want to draw? is it keeping kids from spending their parents money? or is it enticing kids by triggering addictive tendencies? if it is just the money, then the responsibility lies on the parents to protect their accounts. if it is the addictive tendencies, then we could be seeing a lot of changes to the gaming world

You could argue about games being addictive in other ways but people are mostly focused on gambling right now and its already established how that should be handled around the world. Companies like EA are just trying to pass it off as something else and its a problem. Generally anything addictive can be destructive in one way or another though

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It's manipulative because they are using people's psychological weaknesses or addictive tendencies against them.

 

They are Skinner boxes.

 

Yes displaying odds would be (a little) less manipulative. And allowing people to buy outright would be infinitely less manipulative.

 

Again, as an adult, I'm not really against this stuff simply because it's manipulative. If someone wants to gamble, that's on them. I don't like how it's being marketed to kids.

See if everyone used this definition of what manipulation is, then most of the world is just manipulation.

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Also I tried making a detailed feedback post for the new playlist on waypoint and then I realized how aids the mods on there are.

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Honestly, one of the saddest things of this thread over the past year is watching @TheDood's spirit crumple like a dying star.

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Also I tried making a detailed feedback post for the new playlist on waypoint and then I realized how aids the mods on there are.

Well, whether you wanted to eventually make a post there or not, you're surely banned from Waypoint now.

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Honestly, one of the saddest things of this thread over the past year is watching @TheDood's spirit crumple like a dying star.

I was once so full of hope and happiness. :') I was young and nieve.

 

Well, whether you wanted to eventually make a post there or not, you're surely banned from Waypoint now.

It's more that they're so stressed out about having no redundancy. So you have to use the proper forums for everything and if you're just saying similar stuff to another post you should reply to that one instead of creating a new thread. It's obnoxious 

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343 have copied CoD in Halo 4 and parts of Halo 5. Is Halo 6 the time when they dont copy them?  :mj:

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