Jump to content
CyReN

Halo World Championship 2018 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

Recommended Posts

It's not ridiculous to expect people to track someone for the fraction of a second that a burst takes to complete. This is how I know you're either bad or haven't been playing.

 

It's strange how you say one thing that is challenging is "ridiculous to expect" but yet applaud other challenging mechanics as increasing the skill gap?

 

Nvm just saw who I'm arguing with

The argument i make about this isn't that tracking your opponent accurately for the entire burst isn't skillful, its that its really fucking annoying with an analog stick.

 

KBM would basically be a non-issue, but analog sticks being what they are.... It's certainly more skillful on paper than a shorter burst would be, but is that worth the tradeoff for the extra work and annoyance it is?  I say no. There is line there and i think the BR is committing a foot-fault.

Share this post


Link to post

Even if you have godlike tracking and 100% accuracy with this new BR, you're still looking at a >1.5s TTK. And then you can always get fucked over by spread. I could get behind BR starts if it meant faster TTK, but unless we want to mess with damage settings to get a 3sk BR this new BR is undoubtedly a step backwards.

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

The argument i make about this isn't that tracking your opponent accurately for the entire burst isn't skillful, its that its really fucking annoying with an analog stick.

 

 

 

KBM would basically be a non-issue, but analog sticks being what they are.... It's certainly more skillful on paper than a shorter burst would be, but is that worth the tradeoff for the extra work and annoyance it is? I say no. There is line there and i think the BR is committing a foot-fault.

It's annoying? That seems subjective and also seems like a matter of just needing to get used to it. What has prevented you from saying this about burst weapons in the past, is it the fact that people can thrust and shit now? What determines whether something is annoying or skillful?

 

 

I'm very confident that in a short amount of time you will find tracking normal rather than annoying.

 

If we can dismiss this as being annoying then I can flip CE's difficult aiming or H3's challenging sniper as "annoying" rather than skillful.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

It's annoying? That seems subjective and also seems like a matter of just needing to get used to it. What has prevented you from saying this about burst weapons in the past, is it the fact that people can thrust and shit now? What determines whether something is annoying or skillful?

 

 

I'm very confident that in a short amount of time you will find tracking normal rather than annoying.

 

If we can dismiss this as being annoying then I can flip CE's difficult aiming or H3's challenging sniper as "annoying" rather than skillful.

LUL try hitting a 4 shot to a thrusting target

Share this post


Link to post

Even if you have godlike tracking and 100% accuracy with this new BR, you're still looking at a >1.5s TTK. And then you can always get fucked over by spread. I could get behind BR starts if it meant faster TTK, but unless we want to mess with damage settings to get a 3sk BR this new BR is undoubtedly a step backwards.

I agree, if the BR is going to be this damn hard to use, it should have a faster TTK.

 

It’s probably heresay to suggest something this drastic, but what if it was 4 shot burst no spread? It would be harder to land all 4 shots, but it would have a 1s TTK.

 

Perfects would actually be pretty exciting, and you’d actually stand a chance at winning 1v2’s with pure aim skill...

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

It's annoying? That seems subjective and also seems like a matter of just needing to get used to it. What has prevented you from saying this about burst weapons in the past, is it the fact that people can thrust and shit now? What determines whether something is annoying or skillful?

 

 

I'm very confident that in a short amount of time you will find tracking normal rather than annoying.

 

If we can dismiss this as being annoying then I can flip CE's difficult aiming or H3's challenging sniper as "annoying" rather than skillful.

 

yeah, no.  the more i play it, the MORE ANNOYING it gets. this is not a #adapt situation.  Literal, physical fatigue combined with overwatch-length kill time = annoying.

Sure, its subjective.  literally everything except the perfect TTK numbers is subjective

 

Burst weapons in the past have had faster bursts against targets without sprint, thrust, clamber etc.  H3 burst was slowish, but the movement in that game was also slow-ish.  The hard to use sniper wasn't annoying because everything was a little harder to use and also had lethality that was proportional to its difficulty..  If you get hit by the sniper,  you got beat.  Now with the ez-mode sniper we have and weak BR, challenging is impossible.

 

The BR takes too long to kill for how difficult they made the weapon.  The thing is, i think the aiming (as prescribed by the RRR and AA) is about right.  It just kills too slowly.

 

It seems like they have tried to copy/paste the H3 BR while mitigating the effect of randomness without taking the context of the rest of the game into account.  Context meaning the difference in maps and movement abilities in H5 compared to H3.

Share this post


Link to post

I agree, if the BR is going to be this damn hard to use, it should have a faster TTK.

 

It’s probably heresay to suggest something this drastic, but what if it was 4 shot burst no spread? It would be harder to land all 4 shots, but it would have a 1s TTK.

 

Perfects would actually be pretty exciting, and you’d actually stand a chance at winning 1v2’s with pure aim skill...

 

I think it could work if there was no spread.

 

As petty as it sounds, one of my favorite parts of watching and playing Halo 5 is the perfect medal (and right now most of them come from the magnum). BR with spread will greatly reduce the number of perfects IMO, which I think will be a negative experience for viewers and competitors alike.

 

Hell, even the small things like seeing a player get a double kill in the kill feed with a star next to each one provides context into how that player more than likely just won a battle he shouldn't have by hitting all of his shots. Feels more rewarding.

 

No I'm not saying fewer perfects is why we should stick with magnum starts, the BR still sucks to use and feels awful.

  • Upvote (+1) 5

Share this post


Link to post

yeah, no.  the more i play it, the MORE ANNOYING it gets. this is not a #adapt situation.  Literal, physical fatigue combined with overwatch-length kill time = annoying.

Sure, its subjective.  literally everything except the perfect TTK numbers is subjective

 

Burst weapons in the past have had faster bursts against targets without sprint, thrust, clamber etc.  H3 burst was slowish, but the movement in that game was also slow-ish.  The hard to use sniper wasn't annoying because everything was a little harder to use and also had lethality that was proportional to its difficulty..  If you get hit by the sniper,  you got beat.  Now with the ez-mode sniper we have and weak BR, challenging is impossible.

 

The BR takes too long to kill for how difficult they made the weapon.  The thing is, i think the aiming (as prescribed by the RRR and AA) is about right.  It just kills too slowly.

 

It seems like they have tried to copy/paste the H3 BR while mitigating the effect of randomness without taking the context of the rest of the game into account.  Context meaning the difference in maps and movement abilities in H5 compared to H3.

The bold is what happens when people think the H3 BR is a good starting weapon

  • Upvote (+1) 4

Share this post


Link to post

I think it could work if there was no spread.

 

As petty as it sounds, one of my favorite parts of watching and playing Halo 5 is the perfect medal (and right now most of them come from the magnum). BR with spread will greatly reduce the number of perfects IMO, which I think will be a negative experience for viewers and competitors alike.

 

Hell, even the small things like seeing a player get a double kill in the kill feed with a star next to each one provides context into how that player more than likely just won a battle he shouldn't have by hitting all of his shots. Feels more rewarding.

 

No I'm not saying fewer perfects is why we should stick with magnum starts, the BR still sucks to use and feels awful.

In a 1v1 scenario you would never see a perfect
  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

 

Josh Menke Tweet

 

I'm really happy we have Josh in the role he is in - because it feels like he is a really smart/talented guy.  

 

And he does more for the community, communication wise, then Sketch and Bravo do/did combined...they should be embarrassed by his effort IMO.

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

"We plan to run Oddball for long enough to gather both feedback and data, and then we’ll switch to the next gamemode and run that exclusively for a period of time."

So if im reading that correctly they will be testing another game mode for HCS after oddball?

Bomb? KOTH?

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

"We plan to run Oddball for long enough to gather both feedback and data, and then we’ll switch to the next gamemode and run that exclusively for a period of time."

 

So if im reading that correctly they will be testing another game mode for HCS after oddball?

 

Bomb? KOTH?

A little bit underneath that he said

 

"Since Oddball is brand new, it’s going to need more time than the other modes / maps which have already had a lot of polish over the years."

 

I think the other game modes are CTF, slayer, and strongholds with changes. Maybe strongholds locations, maybe five flag CTF, maybe just testing with BR starts, I don't know.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

"We plan to run Oddball for long enough to gather both feedback and data, and then we’ll switch to the next gamemode and run that exclusively for a period of time."

 

So if im reading that correctly they will be testing another game mode for HCS after oddball?

 

Bomb? KOTH?

 

You could be right, but I read it more like 'Oddball is new to HCS, after Oddball we'll do Slayer/Flag/SH'.

 

If that's the case, then that would imply they've made some changes to those gametypes/weapon placements/powerups etc., or they want to test BR starts with every gametype before they decide it sucks.

 

Edit: what Silos said ^^^

 

Although who knows, maybe they will test Bomb again? I feel like we would have heard about KotH by now though if it were in the works.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I love how the pistol went from being "the worst precision weapon especially at range" to now being "a. Cross-mapping laser beam" with absolutely 0 changes to the gun. Lmao I swear people act like everyone was straight 5'ing people all the time across the map. Now that rifles are actually not straight upgrades it's somehow too weak. Single shot with low zoom is better than this trash ass BR. Spread is never the way to go and burst guns with this movement is plain inconsistent. But hey it's cool face painting is totally super skillful and the pistol was totally just too easy.

Wait

 

There was no change?

 

With the way people were talking I thought they had added tons of additional magnetism to it or something.

  • Upvote (+1) 4

Share this post


Link to post

As much as heated arguments suck (to some), I have to give those props that still have the fire to want to discuss it no matter what direction gametypes and settings go. I hope it all works out in the end.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

"I’ve seen suggestions to make the RRR or aim-assist worse and remove the spread. This would make the BR harder to use for lower- mid-skilled players, but in our data would have little effect on high-end competitive play because those players just don’t miss, even without aim-assist and RRR."

 

If they just made the weapon harder, instead of just random/inconsistent, worse players would lose more fights and good players would still be good!

 

:wutface: 

  • Upvote (+1) 7

Share this post


Link to post

As much as heated arguments suck (to some), I have to give those props that still have the fire to want to discuss it no matter what direction gametypes and settings go. I hope it all works out in the end.

We will fight to the end.
  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

"We plan to run Oddball for long enough to gather both feedback and data, and then we’ll switch to the next gamemode and run that exclusively for a period of time."

 

So if im reading that correctly they will be testing another game mode for HCS after oddball?

 

Bomb? KOTH?

Sounds great!, It's a break from playing Stronghold 75% of the time.

Share this post


Link to post

After reading all these last few pages of arguments about red reticule range, bullet magnetism, aim assist, perfect TTK, average TTK, all I can think is one thing:

 

Man, if only someone would implement the bloom mechanic I brought up five years ago.

 

 

The mechanic:

  1. High base aim assist on all weapons
  2. Reticule shrinks as you fire, and resets on a specific cadence meant to be the "normal fire rate" of the weapon.  As the reticule shrinks, aim assist decreases (your shots magnetize to the target less, you must aim more accurately)
  3. If you fire faster than the "normal fire rate", the reticule eventually shrinks to the size of a dot.  If you aren't that confident in your aim, you can let the reticule reset between shots in order to rely on aim assist to land your shots.  This enables more skilled players/aimers to fire beyond the average TTK to create a much faster perfect TTK.

Basically, aim assist reverse-blooms, rather than the actual bullet trajectory becoming random as with standard bloom.

 

 

This would enable:

  • Low and middle-tier skilled players to land their shots consistently against similarly-ranked opponents.  They'll never feel like they're bad because they're missing -- because when firing at the standard RoF, they won't be.
  • Upper and top-tier skilled players to out-shoot people firing at standard RoF, because consistent aim fired at the MAX RoF will always win versus standard RoF.  (And probably even allow for one missed shot to still fire faster than standard RoF's perfect kill)
  • Top-tier skilled players to out-shoot other people firing at Max RoF based off superior aim in highly mobile situations, where your strafe, jumping, and crouching are elevated in impact since many people will be firing at a Low-Aim Assist (high RoF) rate in order to try to get the fastest kills possible.

In other words, everyone fucking wins.

  • Upvote (+1) 7
  • Downvote (-1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

After reading all these last few pages of arguments about red reticule range, bullet magnetism, aim assist, perfect TTK, average TTK, all I can think is one thing:

 

Man, if only someone would implement the bloom mechanic I brought up five years ago.

 

 

The mechanic:

  • High base aim assist on all weapons
  • Reticule shrinks as you fire, and resets on a specific cadence meant to be the "normal fire rate" of the weapon. As the reticule shrinks, aim assist decreases (your shots magnetize to the target less, you must aim more accurately)
  • If you fire faster than the "normal fire rate", the reticule eventually shrinks to the size of a dot. If you aren't that confident in your aim, you can let the reticule reset between shots in order to rely on aim assist to land your shots. This enables more skilled players/aimers to fire beyond the average TTK to create a much faster perfect TTK.
Basically, aim assist reverse-blooms, rather than the actual bullet trajectory becoming random as with standard bloom.

 

 

This would enable:

  • Low and middle-tier skilled players to land their shots consistently against similarly-ranked opponents. They'll never feel like they're bad because they're missing -- because when firing at the standard RoF, they won't be.
  • Upper and top-tier skilled players to out-shoot people firing at standard RoF, because consistent aim fired at the MAX RoF will always win versus standard RoF. (And probably even allow for one missed shot to still fire faster than standard RoF's perfect kill)
  • Top-tier skilled players to out-shoot other people firing at Max RoF based off superior aim in highly mobile situations, where your strafe, jumping, and crouching are elevated in impact since many people will be firing at a Low-Aim Assist (high RoF) rate in order to try to get the fastest kills possible.
In other words, everyone fucking wins.
Interesting but convoluted.
  • Upvote (+1) 6
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.