Hitmarkers Yes/No Poll - All or Nothing

[Apoll0]

It's functionally almost identical, but ADS covers up a portion of the screen compared to classic zoom. More importantly though, it makes Halo extremely generic looking and on some weapons it's downright ******** that they have zoom now. (e.g. Sword and Hammer) The first time I saw the H5 gameplay leak I literally though it was a troll that uploaded a CoD trailer with a shiny filter over it.

 

Agree with all of this 100%.  I don't agree that the addition of weapon hitmarkers detrimental though.  It doesn't make the game look "so generic" by itself unless you are looking for it too.  ADS certainly does in a very obvious way and ADS on weapons like Autos and the fucking sword are comical.

 

Hitmarkers for grenades/splash damage are also comical.  get rid of that shit please.  I'm not sure how much ADS compromises actual gameplay, but i know for a fact that grenade hitmarkers fuck it up.

[bunniesz23]

It's functionally almost identical, but ADS covers up a portion of the screen compared to classic zoom. More importantly though, it makes Halo extremely generic looking and on some weapons it's downright ******** that they have zoom now. (e.g. Sword and Hammer) The first time I saw the H5 gameplay leak I literally though it was a troll that uploaded a CoD trailer with a shiny filter over it.

 

Yeah melee weapons with zoom has led to some comical shit and was part of the reason sword eventually got taken out. I do like the minimalist zoom-in transitions and overlays (Minus weapon taking up space) the that came along with ads, but there's no reason we can't have the best of both worlds. Literally just take the current stuff and make the gun fade out as the zoom animation plays.

 

Edit: @Apoll0 On the splash damage hitmarkers, would you say all splash damage weapons period or when weapons get only splash damage on a shot. Would make a difference for weapons like the Railgun and Plasma pistol that have splash but not as a primary function.

[QuietMan]

Fuck hitmarkers

[Apoll0]

Yeah melee weapons with zoom has led to some comical shit and was part of the reason sword eventually got taken out. I do like the minimalist zoom-in transitions and overlays (Minus weapon taking up space) the that came along with ads, but there's no reason we can't have the best of both worlds. Literally just take the current stuff and make the gun fade out as the zoom animation plays.

 

Edit: @Apoll0 On the splash damage hitmarkers, would you say all splash damage weapons period or when weapons get only splash damage on a shot. Would make a difference for weapons like the Railgun and Plasma pistol that have splash but not as a primary function.

I would say all splash damage.  My thinking is during those cases where you can't see your opponent like hitting a rocket or rail on the ground next to cover.  

Hitmarkers should require line of sight and be server-fed imo.  Their purpose should be to verify that you're not getting fucked by the internet more than anything.  I would expect shield-flare to be decided by the local machine, not the server which is why both are warranted.  Shield flare should still be your primary means of hit-confirmation with hit markers backing it up.

 

Edit:  Also splash damage weapons don't really have single "units" of damage given the drop off.  The player should know based on distance from target how much damage was done.  Compared to a pistol round with always does 30 damage or 0 damage. (i dont actually know the individual damage numbers, just an example)

[Botheredhat360]

That's a lot of faces to punch on Waypoint.

people still use that site?

[Lickmyb4c0n]

It gives an accuracy bonus and this isn't cod so that "stuff" can fuck off.

You also have to think about the stretching of maps though, due to Spartan Abilities... If autos were to remain as they did in older Halo's, they be much more ineffective, relatively speaking. Given the kind of game H5 is, it was a good choice to implement the zoom to auto's... same reason the Sword has the extended zoom lunge mechanic.

 

If the game environment is scaled up, the close range weapons need something to compensate if they are to remain as viable as they were in the smaller, tighter knit environments of past titles. It's really not game-breaking at all like some people make it out to be, especially with descope and the abundance of high-range weapons in the H5 sandbox.

 

I haven't had any issues with the design of the auto's... if anything, after the H5 Beta, they're better balanced and don't have nearly as tight of spread as they did before. I mean, you could melt someone with an SMG halfway across Midship in the beta. It's much better now than it used to be and compliments the H5-style of Halo, all things considered...

[Lickmyb4c0n]

That's a lot of faces to punch on Waypoint.

Yup... I'm permanently banned there now, as of like 3 days ago. Lmao.

[Gobias]

You also have to think about the stretching of maps though, due to Spartan Abilities... If autos were to remain as they did in older Halo's, they be much more ineffective, relatively speaking. Given the kind of game H5 is, it was a good choice to implement the zoom to auto's... same reason the Sword has the extended zoom lunge mechanic.

 

If the game environment is scaled up, the close range weapons need something to compensate if they are to remain as viable as they were in the smaller, tighter knit environments of past titles. It's really not game-breaking at all like some people make it out to be, especially with descope and the abundance of high-range weapons in the H5 sandbox.

 

I haven't had any issues with the design of the auto's... if anything, after the H5 Beta, they're better balanced and don't have nearly as tight of spread as they did before. I mean, you could melt someone with an SMG halfway across Midship in the beta. It's much better now than it used to be and compliments the H5-style of Halo, all things considered...

I don't entirely agree. In the context of stretch maps/hallways/sightlines, it might seem as though increasing the automatics' effective range would render their power constant, achieving parity with the precision weapons with respect to the balance of previous games. But increasing accuracy does nothing to prevent auto users from crouching around a corner--in fact, it makes this tactic more powerful. It's like how increasing bullet magnetism on precision weapons to achieve parity with old kill times at the new "average engagement range" just ends up making it easier to aim at all ranges. Players can always force short-range encounters unless the map is a flat plane with no cover.

 

This is another example of a chain-solution problem. The maps are stretched, so you need to increase the effective range of autos to compensate. Except the real problem was the enhanced movement that caused the designers to need to stretch the maps. And the reason they added the enhanced movement was that ground acceleration and field of view were too low in Halo 3/Reach, or the outcomes of battles seemed inevitable so the movement was needed to "mix it up." Turns out the real solutions to these basic problems are a fast strafe and a large disparity between perfect and average kill time, two things Halo hasn't had at the same time for a very long time.

 

Yes, everything in the game is connected and should be considered in context. But sometimes it is just as important to look at things in isolation and try to fix the problem there before it spreads down the chain.

[Lickmyb4c0n]

I don't entirely agree. In the context of stretch maps/hallways/sightlines, it might seem as though increasing the automatics' effective range would render their power constant, achieving parity with the precision weapons with respect to the balance of previous games. But increasing accuracy does nothing to prevent auto users from crouching around a corner--in fact, it makes this tactic more powerful. It's like how increasing bullet magnetism on precision weapons to achieve parity with old kill times at the new "average engagement range" just ends up making it easier to aim at all ranges. Players can always force short-range encounters unless the map is a flat plane with no cover.

 

This is another example of a chain-solution problem. The maps are stretched, so you need to increase the effective range of autos to compensate. Except the real problem was the enhanced movement that caused the designers to need to stretch the maps. And the reason they added the enhanced movement was that ground acceleration and field of view were too low in Halo 3/Reach, or the outcomes of battles seemed inevitable so the movement was needed to "mix it up." Turns out the real solutions to these basic problems are a fast strafe and a large disparity between perfect and average kill time, two things Halo hasn't had at the same time for a very long time.

 

Yes, everything in the game is connected and should be considered in context. But sometimes it is just as important to look at things in isolation and try to fix the problem there before it spreads down the chain.

Your point about crouching at corners with auto's isn't so much a problem with the auto's as much as it is with the map design IMO...

 

I agree, it is an issue... but if there weren't so many claustrophobic areas and blind corners, over-segmentation of maps... those freaking little closets in the tree houses in Fathom, being prime examples... easily abusable instances of map geometry, we would see that the effectiveness of auto's would also diminish.

 

Map design issue...

[Apoll0]

You also have to think about the stretching of maps though, due to Spartan Abilities... If autos were to remain as they did in older Halo's, they be much more ineffective, relatively speaking. Given the kind of game H5 is, it was a good choice to implement the zoom to auto's... same reason the Sword has the extended zoom lunge mechanic.

 

If the game environment is scaled up, the close range weapons need something to compensate if they are to remain as viable as they were in the smaller, tighter knit environments of past titles. It's really not game-breaking at all like some people make it out to be, especially with descope and the abundance of high-range weapons in the H5 sandbox.

 

I haven't had any issues with the design of the auto's... if anything, after the H5 Beta, they're better balanced and don't have nearly as tight of spread as they did before. I mean, you could melt someone with an SMG halfway across Midship in the beta. It's much better now than it used to be and compliments the H5-style of Halo, all things considered...

 

Spartan abilities also allow you to close the gap faster than ever too, against weapons that have par or slower perfect kill times than previous halo's, with auto's that are more powerful than ever so it ends up being a wash at least.   Auto's shouldn't have scope or get range bonuses, even in H5.

[arglactable]

You also have to think about the stretching of maps though, due to Spartan Abilities... If autos were to remain as they did in older Halo's, they be much more ineffective, relatively speaking. Given the kind of game H5 is, it was a good choice to implement the zoom to auto's... same reason the Sword has the extended zoom lunge mechanic.

 

If the game environment is scaled up, the close range weapons need something to compensate if they are to remain as viable as they were in the smaller, tighter knit environments of past titles. It's really not game-breaking at all like some people make it out to be, especially with descope and the abundance of high-range weapons in the H5 sandbox.

 

I haven't had any issues with the design of the auto's... if anything, after the H5 Beta, they're better balanced and don't have nearly as tight of spread as they did before. I mean, you could melt someone with an SMG halfway across Midship in the beta. It's much better now than it used to be and compliments the H5-style of Halo, all things considered...

 

No. This is exactly the opposite of reality. Think about the nature of these mobility gimmicks for a moment. Are these maps stretched to accommodate variable speed in 360 degrees? No. You can only move at top speeds in ONE direction. That direction is forward and the natural result of that is that linear aggression is EASIER not harder. Retreating is slower and harder than holding forward. Closing the distance with melee and bullet hoses is EASIER than backing up to stay out of their range. Honestly, it seems like you don't understand how this game is actually played.

 

​So, on top of the fact that these mobility gimmicks essentially buff ALL of these weapons, they ALSO introduced dumb shit like smart-link and the sword speed boost to make things even worse? In what universe does that make sense? Previously, these weapons were relatively passive, niche weapons. You needed to keep your sword in your back pocket, because closing the distance wasn't guaranteed. They just had to back up and they would be moving at the same top speed. NOW you can thrust slide at them at Mach 15 while they back up slowly like a Spartan turtle AND you can lunge at them from half-way across the map.

[Gobias]

Removing nade hitmarkers and leaving weapon hitmarkers seems like the easiest decision 343 has moving forward.

 

I think the gray area of projectile weapons should be discussed a little more.

When you say projectile weapons, do you mean just explosives like rockets or also stuff like plasma bolts? I think the easiest way to determine whether to show hitmarkers would be a bullet-player collision event, which should work for "hitscan" weapons as well since they're just infinitely fast bullets in Halo IIRC. You would get hitmarkers for a direct rocket hit, but not if you hit the opponent with splash damage. Currently they must have it tied to damage given, which they record for stats, but they also record shots hit for stats and the Perfect Kill medal, so I think this would be feasible.

 

------

People talking about smartscope being weird weapons like sword and shotgun got me thinking. Perhaps they thought it was "jarring" that you could smartscope with all of the weapons except sword/hammer/shotguns. Would 343 also consider it "jarring" if you specifically didn't get hitmarkers for splash damage from grenades? In that case, having no hitmarkers whatsoever might be the more elegant solution.

[My Namez BEAST]

Yea hitmarkers on projectiles is a pretty big gray area. For example if I am using the noob combo I can peak really fast, back down, then wait to see if I get a hitmarkers or not. This could make me either re-peak with another charged shot, or challenge with my pistol depending on whether I hit the guy or not. Do I deserve to know if I hit him without looking? Idk if hitmarkers would even matter if they only worked on hitscan guns and I definitely don't think 343 is gonna only put them on precision weapons.

[Simplicityyy]

That's a lot of faces to punch on Waypoint.

There can be. I frequent the Universe Forum. Its really good to me. General Discussion is okay for the most part. I like Waypoint.

[Simplicityyy]

I'd rather not. Keep things simple - if you shot them you should know. 

[Twisted M]

We shouldn't focus our posts/time on weapon hitmarkers. We need to focus on nade hitmarkers first, then move onto other stuff once that's gone. Nade hitmarkers are 100x more detrimental to Halo than weapon hitmarkers.

[Basu]

People talking about smartscope being weird weapons like sword and shotgun got me thinking. Perhaps they thought it was "jarring" that you could smartscope with all of the weapons except sword/hammer/shotguns. Would 343 also consider it "jarring" if you specifically didn't get hitmarkers for splash damage from grenades? In that case, having no hitmarkers whatsoever might be the more elegant solution.

 

I wanted to add the exact same thing to my post. 343 would never leave hitmarkers on weapons, but take them off nades and other explosives, because that would be different from how CoD and other major FPS handle it. I'm 100% with you that they only added ADS to the Shotgun & friends to "streamline the sandbox" or some other bs like that. IMO let's push for complete removal of hitmarkers and if absoutely necessary they can stay on hitscan weapons.

[MATCLAN]

Yea hitmarkers on projectiles is a pretty big gray area. For example if I am using the noob combo I can peak really fast, back down, then wait to see if I get a hitmarkers or not. This could make me either re-peak with another charged shot, or challenge with my pistol depending on whether I hit the guy or not. Do I deserve to know if I hit him without looking? Idk if hitmarkers would even matter if they only worked on hitscan guns and I definitely don't think 343 is gonna only put them on precision weapons.

 

In weird edge cases like that I feel like you'd peek again anyway unless you were weak enough to be easily cleaned up.

 

It might be worth borrowing damage numbers from MMOs. Destiny did this and it was fine except for the way they allowed damage numbers to show even for targets you didn't have LoS on.

Allow hitmarkers on all direct hits, but not on splash damage. Pair it with showing the exact damage a hit does if you can see the target as they get hit. That way, if peeking you still can get incomplete information and have to evaluate the risk yourself but you also get more information about missing individual bullets in a burst fire or automatic weapon engagement.

 

Ultimately I'd be pretty happy with just hit markers sans splash damage and shield flare, but I'm also one of those people who really loves the return of the visible health bar so more ways to get information (especially legit numbers that help us pick apart the maths behind the sandbox - good for balancing discussions!) that is useful but not unearned is never something I'd object to.

[Cursed Lemon]

What the fuck happened to shields visibly popping when you hit someone? 

 

Gee, there's a common sense solution. 

[Riddler]

H5 literally doesn't do this. Hitmarkers come from the server, so if you see one, you hit them. That's why hitmarkers are often delayed on high-latency connections.

 

I hate when I hear people raging about getting hitmarkers and people not dying.

theres other halo games with hit markers tho.

[Nokterne]

Shield flare when you hit someone. Unique, tried and true, effective. No wonder they changed it to what everyone else was doing.

[CorporalWings0]

Yup... I'm permanently banned there now, as of like 3 days ago. Lmao.

You were the last person I'd expect to get perma banned tbh. The mods abuse power way too much over there imo.

[XenonYoshi]

You were the last person I'd expect to get perma banned tbh. The mods abuse power way too much over there imo.

I rarely post anymore after I got temp banned. Its honestly nuts, you can't even hold a good argument on there anymore without a thread getting locked

 

Its like they want you to like 343i or something

 

Also no hitmarkers for grenades and projectile weapons at least. Bad addition

[Lickmyb4c0n]

You were the last person I'd expect to get perma banned tbh. The mods abuse power way too much over there imo.

 

Seriously man, they have a serious "big boy" complex or something... as if they think the "work" they do over there is so important. You'd think they were getting paid for it with how strictly they police the forums there. The absolute worst-managed forum I've ever seen on the Internet.

 

They've built a safe-space community... anyone who challenges their noob ideals or criticizes 343 (not a bad thing) gets banned... it's what the franchise needs. Put the developer in-check... it's the only way things are going to get better, and there they are over there, filtering feedback and thus enabling the same faulty 343 practices!

 

It's such a shame man. Really... that Halo has come to this. Bunch of trolls...

[Wu Ip Man]

No hitmarkers for any kind of explosive or splash.

Hitmarkers for other weapons so we know when to blame 343 for blanks and rightfully yell "bullshit" and "warrior" at the monitor.