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Hitmarkers Yes/No Poll - All or Nothing

Hitmarkers Yes/No  

110 members have voted

  1. 1. If you had to choose, would you rather have hitmarkers (including grenade hitmarkers) or have no hitmarkers of any kind?

    • I would prefer hitmarkers, including grenade hitmarkers.
      12
    • I would prefer no hitmarkers whatsoever.
      98


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The shield flare totally had this covered from the beginning. You could even tell if your shots were blank or partially blank in H3 because it didn't flare at all or hardly did. It was a lot more nuanced than people often give it credit for but if you played the game a lot you knew instantly if your shots were counting or not unless they already had no shield which could be improved upon. Hitmarkers were never needed.

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What the fuck happened to shields visibly popping when you hit someone? 

 

Gee, there's a common sense solution. 

 

Shields flare/popping and hitmarkers are categorically the same for weapons. It all falls under the umbrella of hit feedback. Hit feedback has to be minimalist enough to not distract you, but "loud" enough to reinforce your shooting (both audio and visual). I feel like shields flare and popping wasn't quite enough messaging, and the hitmarkers and sound feedback in Halo 5 is the perfect balance.

 

The centrality of the hitmarkers on the screen are vital in my opinion. Sure your enemy is on screen when you are shooting him so you should be able to see his shields flare, but relying on a enemy player model animation just seems too variable to really make the shooting feels crisp (shield popping is pretty noisy, but flare is way too subtle in my opinion). It's a delicate balance.

 

Plus I'm not sure if shield flare is a client side thing (which it might be because it usually seems like it is responding to bullet tracers, which are obviously a client approximation), but if it is, hitmarkers serve a vital role in letting you know you actual did or did not hit that guy according to the server.

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Shields flare/popping and hitmarkers are categorically the same for weapons. It all falls under the umbrella of hit feedback. Hit feedback has to be minimalist enough to not distract you, but "loud" enough to reinforce your shooting (both audio and visual). I feel like shields flare and popping wasn't quite enough messaging, and the hitmarkers and sound feedback in Halo 5 is the perfect balance.

 

The centrality of the hitmarkers on the screen are vital in my opinion. Sure your enemy is on screen when you are shooting him so you should be able to see his shields flare, but relying on a enemy player model animation just seems too variable to really make the shooting feels crisp (shield popping is pretty noisy, but flare is way too subtle in my opinion). It's a delicate balance.

 

Plus I'm not sure if shield flare is a client side thing (which it might be because it usually seems like it is responding to bullet tracers, which are obviously a client approximation), but if it is, hitmarkers serve a vital role in letting you know you actual did or did not hit that guy according to the server.

Shield flare was obviously host side. If your bullets didn't count you saw very small yellow spots where the bullets actually impacted from your point of view but the shield flare only occurred if the host counted it as a hit and the amount of flare was also tied to how much damage you did. It was extremely obvious in H3 and the shield flare in every game after it was way less obvious/shitty. It was also accompanied by lights on the armor the changed depending on how low/nonexistent the shield was along with some other subtle effects that combined to make it super obvious at a glance how damaged someone was. That kind of visual feedback > hitmarkers when you're shooting someone and even when you're not. You're instantly rewarded all of the information that you go and find for yourself and there's no hitmarkers for people you didn't even know existed yet.

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Shield flare was obviously host side. If your bullets didn't count you saw very small yellow spots where the bullets actually impacted from your point of view but the shield flare only occurred if the host counted it as a hit and the amount of flare was also tied to how much damage you did. It was extremely obvious in H3 and the shield flare in every game after it was way less obvious/shitty. It was also accompanied by lights on the armor the changed depending on how low/nonexistent the shield was along with some other subtle effects that combined to make it super obvious at a glance how damaged someone was. That kind of visual feedback > hitmarkers when you're shooting someone and even when you're not. You're instantly rewarded all of the information that you go and find for yourself and there's no hitmarkers for people you didn't even know existed yet.

 

Yeah, as you point out, shield flare is related but really separate mechanic. It provides you information even without shooting. Shield popping is also really a different mechanic as hitmarkers don't tell you when your opponents shields have popped. You have to rely on the animation on the opponents player model.

 

The lighting/art style in Halo 5 hurts the visual acuity of shield flare, along with such a plethora of armor types. There is just a lot of noise on player models and in the maps in general. Hitmarkers are definitely needed in Halo 5 for this reason. But, even if they simplified the art style and streamlined it for gameplay purposes and made flare much more viable in the process, I still think hitmarkers provide that extra bit of hit feedback that is oh so important to making the shooting experience feel "good", which STEP 1 in making a good FPS.

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Yeah, as you point out, shield flare is related but really separate mechanic. It provides you information even without shooting. Shield popping is also really a different mechanic as hitmarkers don't tell you when your opponents shields have popped. You have to rely on the animation on the opponents player model.

 

The lighting/art style in Halo 5 hurts the visual acuity of shield flare, along with such a plethora of armor types. There is just a lot of noise on player models and in the maps in general. Hitmarkers are definitely needed in Halo 5 for this reason. But, even if they simplified the art style and streamlined it for gameplay purposes and made flare much more viable in the process, I still think hitmarkers provide that extra bit of hit feedback that is oh so important to making the shooting experience feel "good", which STEP 1 in making a good FPS.

Nah step 1 is having a functional aiming system.
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Shields flare/popping and hitmarkers are categorically the same for weapons. It all falls under the umbrella of hit feedback. Hit feedback has to be minimalist enough to not distract you, but "loud" enough to reinforce your shooting (both audio and visual). I feel like shields flare and popping wasn't quite enough messaging, and the hitmarkers and sound feedback in Halo 5 is the perfect balance.

Wasn't quite enough in what game? Because it worked just fine in CE and H2.

 

The centrality of the hitmarkers on the screen are vital in my opinion. Sure your enemy is on screen when you are shooting him so you should be able to see his shields flare, but relying on a enemy player model animation just seems too variable to really make the shooting feels crisp (shield popping is pretty noisy, but flare is way too subtle in my opinion). It's a delicate balance.

So, make a shield flare animation that doesn't suck. Problem solved.

 

Plus I'm not sure if shield flare is a client side thing (which it might be because it usually seems like it is responding to bullet tracers, which are obviously a client approximation), but if it is, hitmarkers serve a vital role in letting you know you actual did or did not hit that guy according to the server.

How is there any differentiation between those two things at that point? They both act on the same trigger.

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I feel like shields flare and popping wasn't quite enough messaging, and the hitmarkers and sound feedback in Halo 5 is the perfect balance.

 

Lol what? The high pitched sound whenever you get a nade kill hurts my ears and the cringy hitmarkers on the AR and other autos are super distracting.

 

There was nothing wrong with shields flaring, Reach even added the POP! sound and the little "ugh" scream when someone became no shield which technically already allowed using nades as mini-radars like H5's albeit on a much smaller scale.

Halo never needed hitmarkers, we had a unique solution that elegantly solved the problem of not showing indirect damage (nades, rockets etc.) without a line of sight. We had this perfectly fine system for 10+ years until some genious at 343 decided that "CoD has this amazing feature called hitmarkers that we should totally copy and paste into Halo" because reasons.

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Wasn't quite enough in what game? Because it worked just fine in CE and H2.

 

 

So, make a shield flare animation that doesn't suck. Problem solved.

 

 

How is there any differentiation between those two things at that point? They both act on the same trigger.

 

I don't think just making a better flare animation will ever achieve the same level of feedback hitmarkers do. I just think categorically, anything on the player model is potentially problematic because it can be obfuscated by a number of things, like smoke from grenades/explosions. Or maybe my teammates are shooting the opponent at the same time. Or maybe he has overshield and the flare isn't as visible because of that. Moving hit feedback into the UI just makes for a cleaner more consistent feedback loop.

 

Or maybe I'm ADS zoomed in and there is a weapon model covering up half of my screen. :kappa:

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I don't mind hit markers on shots. It just provides additional feedback.

 

Nade hit markers are just dumb though.

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I'm sick of the fact that we need to tell nade hitmarkers to fuck off for a 3rd game in a row.

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I don't think just making a better flare animation will ever achieve the same level of feedback hitmarkers do. I just think categorically, anything on the player model is potentially problematic because it can be obfuscated by a number of things, like smoke from grenades/explosions. Or maybe my teammates are shooting the opponent at the same time. Or maybe he has overshield and the flare isn't as visible because of that. Moving hit feedback into the UI just makes for a cleaner more consistent feedback loop.

 

Or maybe I'm ADS zoomed in and there is a weapon model covering up half of my screen. :kappa:

 

Keep in mind, I actually don't have a problem with bullet hitmarkers. 

 

But.. For the sake of the conversation, how exactly are the scenarios you pointed out a bad thing? Detecting if your shots hit through smoke? If you're shooting blindly through an area that you can't see, this would just add another reason why hitmarkers shouldn't be a thing. All it's doing is enabling you to not use your own senses. Especially since RRR is still effective through different mediums such as smoke or the waterfall on H2A.

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Shields flare/popping and hitmarkers are categorically the same for weapons. It all falls under the umbrella of hit feedback. Hit feedback has to be minimalist enough to not distract you, but "loud" enough to reinforce your shooting (both audio and visual). I feel like shields flare and popping wasn't quite enough messaging, and the hitmarkers and sound feedback in Halo 5 is the perfect balance.

 

The centrality of the hitmarkers on the screen are vital in my opinion. Sure your enemy is on screen when you are shooting him so you should be able to see his shields flare, but relying on a enemy player model animation just seems too variable to really make the shooting feels crisp (shield popping is pretty noisy, but flare is way too subtle in my opinion). It's a delicate balance.

 

Plus I'm not sure if shield flare is a client side thing (which it might be because it usually seems like it is responding to bullet tracers, which are obviously a client approximation), but if it is, hitmarkers serve a vital role in letting you know you actual did or did not hit that guy according to the server.

 

Accidental upvote.  I meant to downvote you.

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