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HCS Pro League Fall 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Maybe I’m just too optimistic, but this news actually got me back on Beyond, and I played a few matches of H5 again. I do think 343 have had a lot of fuck ups, but honestly, I have some hope in the future of Halo, and I am excited about HCS as well. Also, I can now have a Canada weapon skin, so that’s worth something to me

 

LOL the exact same. The Halo juices are flowing so much that I even considered playing Warzone today.

 

So, what are we guessing pop numbers for H5 to be? It says HTR is tracking about 170k.

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Wanted to chime in on yesterday's montage discussion. Even today I think the Str8 teamtage and Walshy's final H2 montage are two of the best out there. There were some other great ones from H3, but at some point I think editors lost track of the reason people watched montages and focused too much on effects and not enough on highlighting the gameplay. I think the same thing happens to an extent in all art forms where some people make content for the approval of their peers instead of focusing on who the end consumer is.

 

5 second multikills, while IMO not as big a problem as some make it out to be, does make clips longer and you end up over-editing to get a faster pacing if that's what you want.

If you have to chop the shit out of your clips to get the right pacing, then you’re using the wrong fucking song.

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Was thinking. Local server means no more devkits, no more custom build, means now we can use forge maps in Hcs ?

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Gears 1 & 2

Modern Warfare 1 & 2

Assassins Creed 1& 2

GTA IV

Left 4 Dead 2

 

All 2007-2009

I'm not saying I agree with Orii, but to say there was fuck all competition is factually wrong. The list is longer I'm sure but this is what I can remember

And current day would wipe the floor in terms of games competing for majority of players time vs that list.

 

 

 

tier 3 bro, what tier is d2?  ;)

I go to destiny subs all the time just to read all the salt. If you think 343 does stupid shit wait until you see some of the things Destiny does/still does. It honestly blows my mind that Bungie puts that shit out. I honestly believe that if Bungie had kept control of Halo we'd be playing Destiny but with Halo tacked on to it. Imagine Snipedown having to use a super to get an overkill with an RNG weapon and then using a jetpack to get a kill with a sniper that regenerates ammo with no need to seek power weapons.

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I have to admit, looking at these scores I'm actually surprised EU is doing as well as they are. Of course LAN is a whole new thing but even so.

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Halo 3's community features were also pretty novel back in the day for consoles. I'd actually attribute those features to the game holding on to so many players right up until the end than the lack of competition.

H3's community features were insane.  There was a skill gap to getting cool screenshots lol.  Like i would look at everyones fileshare in every pregame lobby.  Think about that, there was a group of people who knew how to get cool effects and angles on screenshots in H3 just to put them on fileshares.  Not to mention everything else, the screenshot thing is probably on the bottom of the totem poll.

 

HLG, forge, custom games, social playlists, MLG.  The whole scene loved eachother and it all intertwined beautifully.

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As an employee its hard to not comment and I always stay away from it to not look like an ass or take it personally, however i do think some of the comments recently have been a tad strong. ESL Australia for example puts on some truly epic events and I really hope they are involved in the ANZ side of things. I am also very proud of the what myself and the team in the UK produced for the EU Pro League Finals, I do honestly think at the time we raised the bar for them 2 gigs.

I know quite a few of the ESL Australia people from the old ACL days.

 

Some of the most hardworking and amazing individuals I've ever met or had the opportunity to work with. I don't get to see them very often (I'm on the west coast of Australia and they're on the East) but every single time it's just like catching up with old friends.

 

I truly hope they're involved with Halo Events in Australia, they've got the experience and are old school Halo fans that got into the world of esports through Halo so I've got no doubts they'll do an amazing job.

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HLG, forge, custom games, social playlists.  The whole scene loved eachother and it all intertwined beautifully.

All of those communities are still active, just not as big or known.

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All of those communities are still active, just not as big or known.

ya exactly, H3 was ground breaking and promoted all of these small communities well.  Brand new features showcased perfectly.  Its not just nostalgia, H3 really was an incredible game

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Hi Simms, I'd love to have a proper discussion about this:

 

So in my opinion, I think ESL are incredible. However, it is not hard to see that all the games that they run incredible events in, are mostly PC games. Counter-strike for example have incredible events like ESL One etc.

 

But Halo is much different. games like CSGO thrive from weekly pro leagues over the internet - Halo does not, its foundations are dug into the open LAN events. This is of course something that ESL failed to realise.

 

HOWEVER

 

Most of the open LANs were not run by ESL. So everyone slating them can shut up

 

Snip

 

 

We should remind you that ESL was initially opposed to open tournaments with Pro player participation.

 

If pros were invited to LANs, then it couldn't be affiliated with HCS. The argument was that segregating pros from AMs somehow gave AMs a better path to Pro status... yeah wtf?

 

MLG was told they could run AM only LANs.

 

When we finally got opens in season 2, ESL still couldn't be bothered. That's why we ended up with the small TOs you've mentioned.

 

smaller TOs are occasionally enlisted for Gears opens, even though MLG is the primary TO. MLG helps promote these events and sends a strike team to help with production and logistics, because a rising tide raises all ships. in comparison, ESL is just like "fuck those guys we didn't want HCS to have opens anyway".

 

So no need for anyone to shut up. ESL and their philosophies have been toxic for halo esports- even the events they didnt run.

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Just to be that guy and point out the flag is on backwards. Pretty sure the australian one is too. 

 

onejobtreephortree.png

 

Looking at the image below, you can see the AR's "left" side (if you placed the gun in front of you, the left side being the side where the muzzle points out to the left). It's hard to tell, but it seems to match the orientation of the actual flag (you can easily see the flag is the right way on the pistol). It looks like they placed the flag texture in the proper orientation on this side of the guns and then mirrored it to the other side. I suspect this was done so that the colors would wrap smoothly on the top and bottom of the gun and it would have a cleaner aesthetic look, at the cost of one side being reversed.

DMYH97cVoAAlw7s.jpg

 

 

edit: all the flags are reversed on the "right" side of the gun: 

 

When does the LAN patch drops ?

 

I don't think they announced a date, but they've said it will be used at the upcoming Microsoft Store tournaments, which is a 2v2 on November 6th. So presumably before November 6th. 

 

In other news, I know that not many people care about HW2, but 2 of the announcements made for HW2 have implications for H6 (and possibly even H5). The first is crossplay. We already know that H6 will be on PC, but I'm not sure if it's been confirmed that it will have some form of crossplay. This is being added to HW2, and it should be a good indication of what's to come for the main Halo games. Things like performance, controller vs. mk+b, restrictions on input devices, etc. Definitely worth monitoring.

 

The other is Xbox Live Arena, which is the integrated tournament hosting service that Xbox introduced a little while ago. This allows you to create tourneys through the Xbox itself and participate in them seamlessly from within the game. You'd think that if it's being added for HW2 then it's in the pipeline for H6. So this too is worth checking out.

 

The issue with both of these updates to HW2 is that who knows how many people even play it, so it might not be the most revealing experiment. In any case, it should at least give 343 some practice in getting those 2 services ready.

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HLG, forge, custom games, social playlists, MLG.  The whole scene loved eachother and it all intertwined beautifully.

 

Woah now. I wouldn't go that far. No where near it in fact.

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Vexed are my dark horse for this event. They've been playing really well recently.

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I have to admit, looking at these scores I'm actually surprised EU is doing as well as they are. Of course LAN is a whole new thing but even so.

Both infused and vexed have been performing really well in scrims so far. 9-4 v NV for infused is a good score especially considering how NV have been demolishing anyone out of the top 4. Also vexed beat radiant 11-2 i think which is a crazy result considering the players on that team. They also went 4-4 with cryptik last night.

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As an employee its hard to not comment and I always stay away from it to not look like an ass or take it personally, however i do think some of the comments recently have been a tad strong. ESL Australia for example puts on some truly epic events and I really hope they are involved in the ANZ side of things. I am also very proud of the what myself and the team in the UK produced for the EU Pro League Finals, I do honestly think at the time we raised the bar for them 2 gigs.

Sorry for the double post but just wanted to say all of the esl uk events have been really well ran and fall finals last year is still the best event i have been to (i have only been to 2 but the other was the recent gfin event which was also amazing).

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Was thinking. Local server means no more devkits, no more custom build, means now we can use forge maps in Hcs ?

The dev kits were never preventing Forge maps from being used. They’ve had that CTF warmup mode on the builds for months.

 

The problem currently is the frame rate in most Forge maps which can’t be fixed by the forgers.

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The dev kits were never preventing Forge maps from being used. They’ve had that CTF warmup mode on the builds for months.

 

The problem currently is the frame rate in most Forge maps which can’t be fixed by the forgers.

Ah alright then. Still fucking sucks having this awesome editor and not be able to utilize it for Hcs.

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The problem currently is the frame rate in most Forge maps which can’t be fixed by the forgers.

 

Fix your &$*# game.

 

 

:simms: 

 

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Fix your &$*# game.

 

 

:simms: 

 

I'll fix Forge if you fix MCC.

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Finally we have some news worth catching up on and pages to actually catch up on. Here's everything that caught my eye in the last couple of days.

Maybe huke stays if HCS gets even better announced stuff but i'm pretty sure he's leaving for COD

Sorry man, Huke is long gone. It doesn't matter if HCS gets better at this point. Call of Duty is leaps and bounds ahead and it's quite clear he likes Call of Duty better than Halo, seeing as he is leaving at the first opportunity. 

 

343 could have just said, you know what, fuck the community and not even had the live stream yesterday. They could’ve stay non-transparent with us and only announce things they think is good and not listen to the community. But instead they are beginning to listen to what we want and are leaps and bounds better than they were a year ago. This is the right direction for halo esports and going into the next title as well.

Just to play devil's advocate here, not saying it's what is going to happen, but what if 343 does the play where they are vocal with the community and say they are going to be transparent and all this stuff, and then they ghost as soon as this new patch drops or the next game releases? We've sort of seen it before, and while I would love for 343 to redeem themselves even in some small way, it's a very real possibility that this is all just a bit of a show for a while until the next game releases and then they disappear again. Just keep it in mind, that's all. I certainly agree these are baby steps in the right direction as far as Halo esports goes - listening to community feedback (LAN and Oddball etc.) and actually implementing changes. We'll have to see how it all shakes out in due time.

 

Your posts made me look at HTR, cause Destiny players use DTR and it shows population numbers.

 

These are just players that have played a single game in this season, and includes second tags. 

https://t.co/uU28xvJMu9

 

Also, there are 1,150,838 people tracked on the Warzone HTR score. Thanks @@TiberiusAudley for that info :D

 

 

 

I think a disclaimer should be put that I'm not the biggest 343 fan, but I can recognize when they do good, and when they do bad. Normally it's more bad than good, in my opinion, but they have repeatedly said that population in H5 is better than we think, and these numbers are in line with info i've received from people. I've never heard real numbers, just what's most popular.

 

 

oh yeah d2 has a huge esports scene  :kappa:

I don't know much about Destiny 2 esports (or Destiny 2), but I thought they were going to try and make a push for it this time around? I could be way off base here, but I think if esports is in Destiny 2/Bungie's pipeline, it'll rival the size and scope of Halo 5's given where Halo 5 is at right now. Not to mention, this is an Activision title and Activision owns MLG... I'm just saying, using Destiny 2's "scene" to discredit their absurdly high playerbase isn't really a good strategy because Halo's esports scene is minuscule along with it's fairly small population.

 

There are also more gamers now. I'm not saying we should expect 100+k concurrent for the entire lifespan of the game, but 60k is not unreasonable.

And the continuous delivery model has shown that some games are capable of increasing their player base steadily over time.

In my opinion, 60k is more than reasonable to expect, but the game's quality has to earn those numbers. Most people won't stick around if the game kind of sucks. Completely agree with your second point there, which I think supports the idea that a game doesn't have to release every single year like Call of Duty for it to be a successful, player-retaining game.

 

Maybe I’m just too optimistic, but this news actually got me back on Beyond, and I played a few matches of H5 again. I do think 343 have had a lot of fuck ups, but honestly, I have some hope in the future of Halo, and I am excited about HCS as well. Also, I can now have a Canada weapon skin, so that’s worth something to me

What I've bolded in the beginning is similar to my own situation - I hopped back onto MCC for the first time in a while today and actually got some games, and remembered how much I loved the first three Halo games (strictly playing team slayer) and how much I didn't really like H2A. I have absolutely no faith in 343 doing anything successful at this point, but I haven't ruled it out as a possibility if that makes sense. I think 343 sucks and the direction they've taken Halo is atrocious, but there is an outside possibility that they make something I personally would want to play for an extended period of time. In italics, I'm a little bit torn on it. I have hope for the future, but it's got nothing to do with 343. It's mostly just blind hope that somehow something drastic changes and the game returns to the path of it's former success and the scene returns to the way it was for H1-H3. 

 

lmao, oh no we have dev support, you guys say that like it's a bad thing

Dev support is great, if the dev is good and actually supports. All 343 has done for real support is prize money. They hesitate for extended periods of time to make changes to the game/competitive settings that would benefit the players greatly. They've put the money down (likely M$), but haven't backed it up really with anything substantial, most notably, a game the majority of players can agree is a solid and fun game to play at its core. It seems to me a lot of pro players are going through the motions at this point because the game is stale, the game isn't great, and it's not truly fun (most of the time, outside of the heightened stakes/competition) to play. Developer support isn't the end all be all of good things to happen to games. Sometimes it actually hurts the growth of the scene.

 

 

 

HLG, forge, custom games, social playlists, MLG.  The whole scene loved eachother and it all intertwined beautifully.

Don't know about everyone loving each other, but everyone certainly had their own communities and scenes in Halo 3 and they certainly all co-existed beautifully. 

 

The dev kits were never preventing Forge maps from being used. They’ve had that CTF warmup mode on the builds for months.

The problem currently is the frame rate in most Forge maps which can’t be fixed by the forgers.

It's absurd to me to think how much better the competitive scene could be with way better (and more) maps for competitive play. Instead we get the most blandly designed maps and their bullshit remixes, recycled for a small pool of uninspired boredom. 

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