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CyReN

HCS Pro League Fall 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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TIL people who stay out of the limelight don't deserve to win events they work hard for lol.

This is exactly what I said, you actually learned something today.
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Xb1 has been outpacing 360 sales for most of its life.

 

 

right, but not outpacing its current competition (PS4); I'm talking about X360 vs PS3 (where Microsoft was doing much better), not X360 vs XB1

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Looking at the LG vs Splyce scrim stats is interesting. Bit disappointing for Splyce to only win 8-5 but looking at the stats you can see what the problem is. Shooter just ain't cutting it. Only 119 kills while his teammates had 171, 175 and 195 kills respectively. If Splyce wants to be #1 they need to construct their team like Optic where all 4 can slay.

 

Also, does APG ever go positive in scrims. Guy is heavily outclassed by Saiyan and Tripppey.

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Getting off of these odd, rehashed topics - I am incredibly excited to see how Oddball and Assault play.

 

The majority maps in Halo 5 being asymmetrical gets me stoked to test out Oddball. Assault changes (explosions killing and reduced thrusts) gives me hope that a few new maps can be added as well.

 

Another thing being glossed over, that I think will make a huge difference, are the grenade changes! Frag grenades with a reduced radius will go even further to remove free information from hit markers, and splinters no longer acting as a get-out-of-jail-free card brings them back into the competitive sandbox. Area of denial grenades being reintroduced is huge.

 

Agree wholeheartedly about nades. We know the blast radius was turned up to compensate for Spartan Abilities, but I always thought it was too large from launch. Grenades became a bit spammy and emphasis on nade placement seemed to drop off a ton due to the blast radius. It's going to feel better to get nade kills and be more satisfying to see them now, hopefully.

 

To tie it in with Assault, just fragging the bomb area won't be as effective.

 

There should be some creative ball setups with the asymmetrical maps. I hope both modes get put into HCS.

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Looking at the LG vs Splyce scrim stats is interesting. Bit disappointing for Splyce to only win 8-5 but looking at the stats you can see what the problem is. Shooter just ain't cutting it. Only 119 kills while his teammates had 171, 175 and 195 kills respectively. If Splyce wants to be #1 they need to construct their team like Optic where all 4 can slay.

 

Also, does APG ever go positive in scrims. Guy is heavily outclassed by Saiyan and Tripppey.

 

Shooter is not the problem.  He had an off night but look at a larger sampling.  He is right there in total damage, usually still goes positive, usually has the mosts assists and his in game leadership is solid.  He is a very good player.  It looks like he is a weak link when you look only at KD sometimes, but there is more to it than that and you cannot reasonably expect players to have as many kills as Shotzzy and Renegade on a regular basis.  Those guys are monsters.

 

Splyce does not have an issue with individual talent.

 

EDIT: Splyce might not have an issue at all.  They have not been performing as well, but online =/= LAN as we all know.  We will see how they do when it actually counts.

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Getting off of these odd, rehashed topics - I am incredibly excited to see how Oddball and Assault play.

 

The majority maps in Halo 5 being asymmetrical gets me stoked to test out Oddball. Assault changes (explosions killing and reduced thrusts) gives me hope that a few new maps can be added as well.

 

Another thing being glossed over, that I think will make a huge difference, are the grenade changes! Frag grenades with a reduced radius will go even further to remove free information from hit markers, and splinters no longer acting as a get-out-of-jail-free card brings them back into the competitive sandbox. Area of denial grenades being reintroduced is huge.

 

Not to be a negative nancy, but what has Oddball really gained from this update outside of becoming its own gametype and the skull? Yeah we can set Oddball specific spawns and spawn zones now, but the big problem is and will be the spartan abilities that make it too easy to get to the ball carrier quickly. Same is true for Assault and the Bomb carrier. I mean, don't get me wrong I really hope someone can make these gametypes work and that we get some fresh gametypes on the HCS, we desperately need it.

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Looking at the LG vs Splyce scrim stats is interesting. Bit disappointing for Splyce to only win 8-5 but looking at the stats you can see what the problem is. Shooter just ain't cutting it. Only 119 kills while his teammates had 171, 175 and 195 kills respectively. If Splyce wants to be #1 they need to construct their team like Optic where all 4 can slay.

 

Also, does APG ever go positive in scrims. Guy is heavily outclassed by Saiyan and Tripppey.

"If Splyce wants to be #1" hmmmmmmm I think winning the most recent major tournament makes you #1 but I could be wrong. Maybe not winning makes you #1? Maybe second place makes you #1?
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You gotta stop looking at stats as the end all be all man. APG does an incredible amount of pushes for the team that open up the map for Tommy and Joey to put up those numbers. They'd be the first to tell you that. He'll get 2 people weak and die but we'll clean up the kills. That's an 0-1 on his statline but we made a successful push as a team behind him. Not bashing you or your opinion im just telling you what I see playing with him every single day.

Damage means nothing K/D is all that matters. Starting pushes/getting people weak doesn't matter if don't have at least a 2.0 KD. Smh.
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You gotta stop looking at stats as the end all be all man. APG does an incredible amount of pushes for the team that open up the map for Tommy and Joey to put up those numbers. They'd be the first to tell you that. He'll get 2 people weak and die but we'll clean up the kills. That's an 0-1 on his statline but we made a successful push as a team behind him. Not bashing you or your opinion im just telling you what I see playing with him every single day.

 

But stats mean everything man  :simms:

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define healthy

 

there's lots of tournaments and they get a lot of viewers but the best players in the world make peanuts

 

optic halo made more money in 1 weekend than the best smash player has in 10+ years

 

And I'm sure the top H5 players just LOVE the game, right? Smash has far better viewership, a far more active community, and a scene of competitive players who play the game because they love it, not because they are guaranteed stupid amounts of money for placing top 8 in an irrelevant game. Throwing money at it doesn't make it healthy, which was literally the point I just made, so I'm not really sure why you felt the need to repeat that non-argument. If Microsoft wasn't trying to force their way into the growing esports market, competitive Halo 5 would evaporate entirely. That's not healthy. That's hanging by a thread. The existence of Halo "esports" depends entirely on how long Microsoft executives are willing to lose money on it with mediocre and worsening viewership.

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Not to be a negative nancy, but what has Oddball really gained from this update outside of becoming its own gametype and the skull? Yeah we can set Oddball specific spawns and spawn zones now, but the big problem is and will be the spartan abilities that make it too easy to get to the ball carrier quickly. Same is true for Assault and the Bomb carrier. I mean, don't get me wrong I really hope someone can make these gametypes work and that we get some fresh gametypes on the HCS, we desperately need it.

 

Regarding Assault - I never thought we were that far off of a successful gametype on certain maps. The lack of explosion was massive though, it allowed teams to maintain a strangling setup.

 

Regarding Oddball, I wouldn't underestimate the spawning system being a huge component. More importantly it'll get a lot more testing and investment since it becoming official allows it to even be looked at in the context of the HCS. More people playing and testing, better changes can be made. I can't really speak to how well it worked previously as I never jumped in a custom to test.

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right, but not outpacing its current competition (PS4); I'm talking about X360 vs PS3 (where Microsoft was doing much better), not X360 vs XB1

I think it's more about sony fucking up the ps3 launch

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And I'm sure the top H5 players just LOVE the game, right? Smash has far better viewership, a far more active community, and a scene of competitive players who play the game because they love it, not because they are guaranteed stupid amounts of money for placing top 8 in an irrelevant game. Throwing money at it doesn't make it healthy, which was literally the point I just made, so I'm not really sure why you felt the need to repeat that non-argument. If Microsoft wasn't trying to force their way into the growing esports market, competitive Halo 5 would evaporate entirely. That's not healthy. That's hanging by a thread. The existence of Halo "esports" depends entirely on how long Microsoft executives are willing to lose money on it with mediocre and worsening viewership.

all these players, all these viewers, and the community is still hemorrhaging money

 

money is a pretty big part of esports, like it or not, if you can't make a living playing your game are you really a professional? if no one involved is making money is that healthy?

 

i love smash but it's a stretch to say it's "a vastly healthier competitive scene" when it's actually not all that healthy, it's not CSGO lol...

 

how long are TO's going to be willing to run events that cost them money? have you ever considered the business aspect of esports

 

smash would kill to have 1/10th of the dev support we have

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1 - Splyce

2 - Optic

3 - NV

 

not sure about the rest. i didnt pay enough attention this season and playing each team once isnt a great measure to me. hopefully an AM and EU team make it to top 8. I this str8 is the most likely to to the best of all AM teams, but @@Cratos always seems to show up at events so i wont count them out

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All I want from DH Denver is 2 streams so we don't miss 80% of the matches.  :stressed:

(or have to watch them on Periscope)

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No it's not, if a game needs competitive dev support to maintain players, it's not a good game.

LoL is literally 100% ran and supported by riot and it is the most popular game in the world.

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have you ever considered the business aspect of esports

 

You apparently can't read. Esports are both a business and a community. Halo is failing on both fronts. Your endless excuses and deflections don't change that reality, no matter how much of your time you waste being an obsessive fanboy for a shallow console FPS. How much money do you imagine Halo 5 esports is bringing in for Microsoft? Or, better question, how much money are they LOSING by over-investing in it?

 

​The only reason you bring up the "business" of esports in this conversation is that Halo 5's inflated prize pools are all you have. The "business aspect of esports" is exactly why modern Halo's artificially resuscitated scene is so fragile. You can't have far bigger prize pools than games with more players and more viewers and have anything resembling a sustainable business.

 

LoL is literally 100% ran and supported by riot and it is the most popular game in the world.

 

That doesn't in any way mean it needed dev support for the competitive scene to thrive and it wasn't always completely locked down and run by Riot either.

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Support from developers is definitely a huge benefit, but is never a replacement for organic player engagement, which you need FIRST. Melee has had zero investment from Nintendo at any point and yet has a vastly healthier competitive scene, because people love the game. Halo 5, meanwhile, literally wouldn't have a competitive scene if Microsoft wasn't throwing million dollar prize pools at it and running the league.

I don't disagree, but it shouldn't be an either or thing. Having both would be nice.

 

I can't help but bring up Splatoon again because it's easily the most competitively sound shooter on consoles. It's fun, it's popular, it has a massive skill gap. But convincing a team of players to invest the time to become the best in the world w/o any financial aspiration or audience is a tough sell. and Nintendo could provide both, but they don't.

 

At least with fighters, players can rely solely on their own drive. I think that works in Smash's favor.

 

Then you look at games like CS:GO, who's growth in popularity was directly tied to dev investment in making it an esport.

 

I don't think it's as simple as 'make a good game', though obviously, that's a great start. Smash is an anomaly, not the rule.

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Really?. I’m indifferent towards Huke, has like a bland personality, I literally don’t have an emotional response of him.

That's fine, I get that. I've been a fan of Huke since COD:AW, so I was pumped when he decided to spend a few years playing Halo. He's not involved with the community, but I think his gameplay speaks volumes. There's no doubt he's been a top 5 player for at least the past year.

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-lol passive aggressive much-

i literally explained this to you like 2 weeks ago dude

 

it's advertising that you can monetize, and it's an investment for the future

 

please try and remember this time

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