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HCS Pro League Fall 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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I think that 343 are terrible at creating maps

 

I dunno, the launch maps were not that bad.  Certainly waaaaay better than H4 launch maps

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Back when mlg prided itself on being console only

 

I can assure you being 16-17 and going to your first MLG event outside of your local city is the greatest feeling on Earth. Most lit weekends with friends I've ever had yo.

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Honestly, I feel like people are underrating the fact that they are changing to ability only radar in Team Arena... after playing so much HCS the lack of ability only tracker in other playlists is the only reason I don't dabble in any other competitive lists. It's so jarring to go back to full radar and immediately stifles playstyles.

 

Also, I can't believe anyone is against ANY change that 343 wants to make. This game is in borderline life support, start trying crazy balance things, who cares? The game's biggest problem is stagnation (although I think that's more due to lack of new gametypes and MAPS - HELLO FORGE HERE).

 

I've always been a fan of cyclical balance and the entire console game industry is way too against making sandbox or balance changes.

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343 are interested in adding maps if they are good. I think that 343 are terrible at creating maps and every subsequent map they have released have been even worse so I haven't been interested in testing anything.

 

If you want to make it easier for people to view your map, do a flythrough of the map and upload it to youtube and give a download link in the same post.

Tyrant 5 flag. Do it

 

 

 

 

And this point 343 should just make a dev version of simplex

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Honestly, I feel like people are underrating the fact that they are changing to ability only radar in Team Arena... after playing so much HCS the lack of ability only tracker in other playlists is the only reason I don't dabble in any other competitive lists. It's so jarring to go back to full radar and immediately stifles playstyles.

 

Also, I can't believe anyone is against ANY change that 343 wants to make. This game is in borderline life support, start trying crazy balance things, who cares? The game's biggest problem is stagnation (although I think that's more due to lack of new gametypes and MAPS - HELLO FORGE HERE).

 

I've always been a fan of cyclical balance and the entire console game industry is way too against making sandbox or balance changes.

 

Cyclical balance is shit - just make all weapons good and have a purpose. 

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I don't have the equipment :^(

You don't have the equipment to make a YouTube vid of a fly through of your map? Yes you do, if you have an Xbox that you're apparently forging maps on. Go to game DVR, start recording, go to forge and fly over your map. Then stop recording and go to xboxdvr.com or whatever site and get your recorded clip. You can then upload that to YouTube, and do basic editing there if you need it.

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I don't have the equipment :^(

Every video on my channel is made using the Xbox dvr recordings, free editing software, my Xbox mic, and shitty windows vista desktop with 4gbs of ram. You can make videos if you really want to.

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Tyrant 5 flag. Do it

 

 

 

 

And this point 343 should just make a dev version of simplex

No Tyrant is ass cheeks do not even waste time. The only option is a barebones map forgers seem to have a hard on for seeing who can maintain the lowest framerate soooo

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Cyclical balance is shit - just make all weapons good and have a purpose. 

 

Balance is never done though imo.  You should be tweaking things regularly based on equal parts player feedback and well-processed gameplay data.  

 

if you think that the balance of your game is "finished", you aren't trying hard enough.

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I don't like using the word balance in this case, the main devs have moved onto the next game and are essentially handing off scraps to those that want to mess around with it.

I mean, that's what happens with every game, a small team stays behind to balance, bug fix & work on additional content when the game releases meanwhile the majority goes on to make the next thing(or have their project contracts end and leave the studio.)

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Balance is never done though imo.  You should be tweaking things regularly based on equal parts player feedback and well-processed gameplay data.  

 

if you think that the balance of your game is "finished", you aren't trying hard enough.

Except if you constantly tweak things you move closer and then further away from positive aspects of a game depending on many factors including a lot of luck. So long as things work in a way that is intuitive at a certain point, especially in an sandbox shooter as straightforward as Halo, you can leave the mechanics of a game and just focus on improving the experience in other ways (maps / gametype improvements).

 

Take Overwatch where the dev bins and revives characters on a whim because they're constantly pissing about. They say themselves that balance isn't just numbers on a spreadsheet you're evening out but it's a combination of developer vision, player perception and raw data. Some heroes have stupid high win rates but they're 'balanced' from the perspective that both the developer and community are relatively satisfied with their standing. Some characters have a reasonably steady win and pick rate (hog) but get axed because perception of how fair the character is or how they "should work".

 

Then you come back to the old games that didn't really have the luxury of updating and the mechanics stay the same for years, sometimes decades yet it works itself out in its own way - CE, CS 1.6, Broodwar, Quake. It's very clear from watch different games develop their just isn't a straightforward direction for game balance, even the best developers constantly fuck up things they had right as well as righting things that don't work well.

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I've always been a fan of cyclical balance and the entire console game industry is way too against making sandbox or balance changes.

 

What? Literally every shooter on console with developers who even remotely give a shit gets regular balance patches. 343's rebalancing "efforts" 2 years after launch are laughable.

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Except if you constantly tweak things you move closer and then further away from positive aspects of a game depending on many factors including a lot of luck. So long as things work in a way that is intuitive at a certain point, especially in an sandbox shooter as straightforward as Halo, you can leave the mechanics of a game and just focus on improving the experience in other ways (maps / gametype improvements).

 

Take Overwatch where the dev bins and revives characters on a whim because they're constantly pissing about. They say themselves that balance isn't just numbers on a spreadsheet you're evening out but it's a combination of developer vision, player perception and raw data. Some heroes have stupid high win rates but they're 'balanced' from the perspective that both the developer and community are relatively satisfied with their standing. Some characters have a reasonably steady win and pick rate (hog) but get axed because perception of how fair the character is or how they "should work".

 

Then you come back to the old games that didn't really have the luxury of updating and the mechanics stay the same for years, sometimes decades yet it works itself out in its own way - CE, CS 1.6, Broodwar, Quake. It's very clear from watch different games develop their just isn't a straightforward direction for game balance, even the best developers constantly fuck up things they had right as well as righting things that don't work well.

 

Oh yeah i agree with all this.  i could have clarified a bit more too.  

 

I am NOT an advocate to "change for the sake of change".  Fuck that.  But with as many characters/weapons/modifier/changing skill levels games have now you're never going to be done.  There are too many variables in play.  I am also totally fine with tweaks being minor and stopping once your next game is ready to ship.

 

Games have moved to a more "continuous delivery" model and this is part of that.

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I hope everyone enjoyed their first day back at hogwarts. And enjoy your 3 day weekend if you get labor day off

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its crazy that everyone on NV has a 2.10+ KA/D in pro league. They're still undefeated in Slayers too.

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I dunno, the launch maps were not that bad.  Certainly waaaaay better than H4 launch maps

 

The progression in map design from H4 to H5 was certainly impressive, and would lead to the conclusion they are getting better and better at map design, but then the H5 DLC happened. I've never seen such lackluster DLC maps in any video game, even the Reach DLC had better maps and that was almost universally hated (I'm not talking about the CE remakes). Here's to hoping the DLC was made by a thrashcan intern and the main team can improve again and deliver some solid launch maps for H6. We're still miles behind CE, H2 and even H3 map quality.

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It actually is incredible that two years later, and several DLC packs later, not one DLC map has been added to HCS. What's more incredible is how bad every single DLC map has been.

 

 

Tyrant was probably the best DLC map if you ask me.

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I just think its impressive that someone can sit around and design maps as part of their job with all of the tools available and then create Overgrowth, Riptide, Torque, and Tyrant which are all somehow worse than Onslaught which was made out of boxes, ramps, and a few trashcans placed with controllers and had like 4 spawn points.

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It actually is incredible that two years later, and several DLC packs later, not one DLC map has been added to HCS. What's more incredible is how bad every single DLC map has been.

 

 

Tyrant was probably the best DLC map if you ask me.

When you design philosophy is "let's reuse sections of an existing maps to make a second map" - you have a recipe for low quality.

 

Tyrant has some fun play spaces but is ruined by the maze-like interior. The "lane" design doesnt work for halo. Could have been something good.

 

I just think its impressive that someone can sit around and design maps as part of their job with all of the tools available and then create Overgrowth, Riptide, Torque, and Tyrant which are all somehow worse than Onslaught which was made out of boxes, ramps, and a few trashcans placed with controllers.

You forgot about molten- every inch of that map is garbage.

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It's almost like since the maps were "free" they decided to use limited resources to create them and just hoped no one would notice.

 

Also does anyone have what was promised up front? I thought they were supposed to release actual BTB maps and it's never been anything but forge

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It's almost like since the maps were "free" they decided to use limited resources to create them and just hoped no one would notice.

 

Also does anyone have what was promised up front? I thought they were supposed to release actual BTB maps and it's never been anything but forge

To be honest, it's not like resource limitations are the reason for the situation. You can make a perfectly fine map out of reused assets. It's just that 343's map designers couldn't.

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