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Halo Series Xbox One Backwards Compatibility Discussion

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Halo 3 is garbage, period.

I agree completely.  It's the worst classic Halo game.  But at least it's classic Halo.  Still better than anything 343 has done, except Reach update with v7.

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Omg I remember you showing me how to set up privates in MNC and I was just like "nope, I'm never dealing with that."

 

 

It's amazing at how much bullshit and nonsense I can put up with just to play a game I enjoy.

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Full agree. Devs nowadays are scared of making skill ranks part of the requirements for the progression system, and yes there were problems (cheating, account selling), but to me that only shows how motivated people were. The ranks weren't the problem, the exploits were. Why Bungie removed that and gave Reach this boring-ass cR progression system is beyond me.

 

 

But Reach at least had cool military ranks. H4 and 5 are just so unbelievably boring with these SR ranks.

My best guess for Bungie removing the rank system from Halo 3 was a way for them to give competitive Halo the middle finger. I think it's obvious that they never actually anticipated that people would play Halo competitively, so they decided to dumb down each game after CE, until not even winning a match meant anything, anymore. Whenever I play Reach, it just reminds me that all the passion seen in the original trilogy was gone, and I'm not just talking about the Multiplayer.
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My best guess for Bungie removing the rank system in Halo 3 was a way for them to give competitive Halo the middle finger. I think it's obvious that they never actually anticipated that people would play Halo competitively, so they decided to dumb down each game after CE, until not even winning a match meant anything, anymore. Whenever I play Reach, it just reminds that all the passion seen in the original trilogy was gone, and I'm not just talking about the Multiplayer.

 

You would be correct.  Bungie and their loyalists on B.net HATED hardcore/competitive Halo last decade.  It's pretty much akin to what Melee went through with Nintendo.

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Pardon me for being ill-informed, but why would Bungie and B.net go on a campaign to ostracize the hardcore/competitive playerbase? Look at what MLG has done for other titles. Why wouldn't they capitalize on that?

 

And other Halo fans have the audacity to call us Bungie fanboys LUL.

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Pardon me for being ill-informed, but why would Bungie and B.net go on a campaign to ostracize the hardcore/competitive playerbase? Look at what MLG has done for other titles. Why wouldn't they capitalize on that?

 

And other Halo fans have the audacity to call us Bungie fanboys LUL.

It's a figure of speech. They weren't actively trying to push the competitive scene away from Halo, they just never understood what made Halo great as a competitive title. Bungie never listened to the competitive community because Bungie felt they knew what was best for Halo because they made the franchise (as you can clearly see, they were wrong), and the people over at B.net, had no clue what a well-designed FPS title looked like. There weren't any conspiracies to end the MLG competitive scene; it ended because Bungie didn't care, and 343i definitely doesn't care, either.

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Pretty sure there's still some articles floating out there about Shadowrun decisio to omit ranks and leaderboards directly because of how cheating was such a major part of Halo 2.

 

Almost everything in reach is some shoe horned idea from SR and fasa studios shut down and people mostly went to bungie/343.

 

With how many people boosted and sold accounts in h3 I wouldn't be surprised if it was done to prevent more of these issues. Not saying it was right or wrong but that's what I remember and I'll try to look for those articles later

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Pretty sure there's still some articles floating out there about Shadowrun decisio to omit ranks and leaderboards directly because of how cheating was such a major part of Halo 2.

 

Almost everything in reach is some shoe horned idea from SR and fasa studios shut down and people mostly went to bungie/343.

 

With how many people boosted and sold accounts in h3 I wouldn't be surprised if it was done to prevent more of these issues. Not saying it was right or wrong but that's what I remember and I'll try to look for those articles later

There's other ways around the issue of cheaters and people boosting and selling their accounts than just removing the ranking system altogether.

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Pardon me for being ill-informed, but why would Bungie and B.net go on a campaign to ostracize the hardcore/competitive playerbase? Look at what MLG has done for other titles. Why wouldn't they capitalize on that?

 

And other Halo fans have the audacity to call us Bungie fanboys LUL.

 

At the time (circa 2005-2009) they did not feel that Halo was meant to be played on a competitive level.  Playing to win was not the correct way to play Halo in their eyes.  I remember specifically in 2005, Bungie came out and stated that they would never have a playlist dedicated to hardcore gametypes; of course that changed in 2008 when we became to large too ignore.  I'll be honest though, part of the reason casuals hated MLG Halo was because of how toxic some of the players and forum posters were to those who didn't view the game like we did.  

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At the time (circa 2005-2009) they did not feel that Halo was meant to be played on a competitive level. Playing to win was not the correct way to play Halo in their eyes. I remember specifically in 2005, Bungie came out and stated that they would never have a playlist dedicated to hardcore gametypes; of course that changed in 2008 when we became to large too ignore. I'll be honest though, part of the reason casuals hated MLG Halo was because of how toxic some of the players and forum posters were to those who didn't view the game like we did.

I wasn't present during those years (I wasn't even in to Halo at the time), but I'd bet part of that toxicity stems from the fact that casual gamers wanted Halo to be geared directly towards their interests. Then again, I guess some MLG players and forum goers were jackasses with an ego even worse than Bungie's. Humans do have the tendency to be condescending when they're better than some people when it comes to competitions, after all.
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At the time (circa 2005-2009) they did not feel that Halo was meant to be played on a competitive level. Playing to win was not the correct way to play Halo in their eyes. I remember specifically in 2005, Bungie came out and stated that they would never have a playlist dedicated to hardcore gametypes; of course that changed in 2008 when we became to large too ignore. I'll be honest though, part of the reason casuals hated MLG Halo was because of how toxic some of the players and forum posters were to those who didn't view the game like we did.

This is why Halo 1 purists hold Halo 1 in such high regard. Whether it was accidental or on purpose, Halo 1 filled both competitive and casual roles perfectly. It was/is a great party game that people could pick up and instantly play. It also was/is one of the most competitive games out there where the meta, spawns, and nade tricks took years to fill out.

 

I really think it would be near impossible to replicate sandbox settings that satisify the competitive and casual community like Halo 1 did.

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There's other ways around the issue of cheaters and people boosting and selling their accounts than just removing the ranking system altogether.

I'll never know how cheating like aimbots and invincibility can go undetected in a console game. I mean, if someone manipulates any file of their H3 installation it's obvious he used an external client to do so and should instantly get banned.

Network manipulation is harder to detect and obviously easy af to do in a P2P game, but with a decent reporting system and harsh bans (I'm thinking console bans here) the epidemic of host booting/bridging/standbying could have been at least contained. With dedicated servers nowadays, this problem has been mostly resolved.

As for boosting and selling accounts, there are so many things Bungie could have done to prevent this issue in H3 (and subsequently Reach if they didn't remove the ranks):

  • rank decay if players don't win a ranked match at least once a week
  • don't allow new accounts to instantly play ranked
  • deranking should result in a ban, it's hilariously easy to detect
  • Boosting just shouldn't exist in a decent ranking system, this was basically an exploit of the H3 truskill system that could've been patched
  • Actively go against black market sites that offer boosting and sell accounts, they had fucking Microsoft backing them at the time
  • etc.
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I'll never know how cheating like aimbots and invincibility can go undetected in a console game. I mean, if someone manipulates any file of their H3 installation it's obvious he used an external client to do so and should instantly get banned.

Network manipulation is harder to detect and obviously easy af to do in a P2P game, but with a decent reporting system and harsh bans (I'm thinking console bans here) the epidemic of host booting/bridging/standbying could have been at least contained. With dedicated servers nowadays, this problem has been mostly resolved.

As for boosting and selling accounts, there are so many things Bungie could have done to prevent this issue in H3 (and subsequently Reach if they didn't remove the ranks):

  • rank decay if players don't win a ranked match at least once a week
  • don't allow new accounts to instantly play ranked
  • deranking should result in a ban, it's hilariously easy to detect
  • Boosting just shouldn't exist in a decent ranking system, this was basically an exploit of the H3 truskill system that could've been patched
  • Actively go against black market sites that offer boosting and sell accounts, they had fucking Microsoft backing them at the time
  • etc.

 

I think the most important aspect of all of this issue that almost everyone misses is that you got booted every once in awhile maybe. People hacking? Almost never. The sale of accounts and boosting? Also minuscule impact and all of it combined was hardly a blip on the radar in comparison to the number of games that worked perfectly as intended. Solution? Unsure but what I am sure about is changing any of the core functionality for the other 99.999% of gamers is and was stupid. All solutions should have been discreet and affected nothing where somehow they just decided to toss literally everything about H3 MM to combat something that didn't even occur once in a hundred games combined if you rounded all of those issues up together most of the time.

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Oh yeah forgot to add that. The boosting and cheating issue was blown waay out of proportion by Frankie and friends.

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It's funny to see how both 343 and Bungie seem to deal with issues in the most round about, band-aid ways that introduce 10 different new problems.

 

Boosting and cheating could be solved with an active banhammer, and tweaking the ranking system to make progression more linear and difficult to maintain at the top. Boosting was prevalent in H3 because you could make a new account and fool the system into thinking you were a god by stomping through the 10s-40s and get a 50 in something like 20 games. As a side note, this was also an issue caused by Bungie making their ranking system too complicated - they had some inane proto-ELO based system that was based on a bell curve and guessing whether or not you should win based on the ranks and records of your opponents and teammates... But I digress. Rather than tweak their system they just remove ranks altogether which creates another plethora of problems. Same thing with selling accounts. You won't be able to stop dumb people from buying accounts but that doesn't really affect gameplay unless those bought accounts are getting placed way higher than they should and ruining high rank matches. Again, that could have been fixed by tweaking the ranking system. But hey, why not just remove ranks completely instead?

 

And now we have 343 over here "fixing" the BRs ease of use by adding random spread...

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There's other ways around the issue of cheaters and people boosting and selling their accounts than just removing the ranking system altogether.

I'm not saying I liked their decision but I understand it where it came from. Sure, we can add options that Basu suggested. It's how overwatch works and I'm sure other games as well. Overwatch has other problems with alt accounts due to only letting you search within certain ranks.

 

I post what I did to put some insight into what their line of thinking was. There was not this conspiracy against competition. Shadowrun was designed to be one of the most competitive shooters and this is what they came up with due to the problems with cheating. If they implemented the OW system it could work well but a big benefit of gaming today vs back then was the ease of updating compared to back then.

 

I'm stuck in the middle though, I think I've played way more games that have no or poor visible ranking systems because to me, gameplay is more important. At the same time, I can't confidentially say I would have played halo 3 as long as I had without those incentives. In this day and age they should have it figured out no problems.

 

I also am sure what Frankie said so I don't know if it was blown out of proportion. I did personally think it was bad. You would have to bridge host just to not get cheated in halo 2. Sometimes it would be hours before I had a legitimate match.

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I wasn't present during those years (I wasn't even in to Halo at the time), but I'd bet part of that toxicity stems from the fact that casual gamers wanted Halo to be geared directly towards their interests. Then again, I guess some MLG players and forum goers were jackasses with an ego even worse than Bungie's. Humans do have the tendency to be condescending when they're better than some people when it comes to competitions, after all.

 

Yup that's pretty much it.  Lol 

 

And in the end they won.  We got equipment in Halo 3, as well as a very slow base movement speed, a trueskill ranking system that was very flawed, as well as a BR that has an effective radius of about 5 feet.

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Yup that's pretty much it. Lol

 

And in the end they won. We got equipment in Halo 3, as well as a very slow base movement speed, a trueskill ranking system that was very flawed, as well as a BR that has an effective radius of about 5 feet.

There is always going to be at least some toxicity in a community that likes to play a game in very different ways. The success of h3 as a whole was that it was both casual friendly, yet mostly able to be customized in a way to make the competitive community happy as well (for the most part). I'd rather have a game that has all the crap (no advanced movement though) that the casual player wants an long as we have the ability to customize it the way we want.

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Just got modded on twice in a row on H3.

 

Nothing I can do about it but it's sad that the best ranked Halo option is the one that's rife with cheating.

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Just got modded on twice in a row on H3.

 

Nothing I can do about it but it's sad that the best ranked Halo option is the one that's rife with cheating.

I am lost in translation is the h3 that every one is playing the social playlist on h5 or is there some other version for Xbox one

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I am lost in translation is the h3 that every one is playing the social playlist on h5 or is there some other version for Xbox one

 

If there are hacks I'd assume the one Antidope is referring to is Halo 3. He was either playing it on the 360 or via backwards compatibility on the Xbox One.

 

 

I'll never know how cheating like aimbots and invincibility can go undetected in a console game. I mean, if someone manipulates any file of their H3 installation it's obvious he used an external client to do so and should instantly get banned.

Network manipulation is harder to detect and obviously easy af to do in a P2P game, but with a decent reporting system and harsh bans (I'm thinking console bans here) the epidemic of host booting/bridging/standbying could have been at least contained. With dedicated servers nowadays, this problem has been mostly resolved.

 

While I too have problems with certain aspects of anti-cheat development over the years, its a more difficult problem than you would think. Hacking games isn't usually done via "manipulating files" (at least the multiplayer aspect). Most of the time, cheating is done by poking memory values in real time, and in a P2P game, its often a very non-trivial problem to watch for cheating of that kind.

 

Any detection of cheating is already dealt with by console bans. However, any existing JTAG/RGH Xbox 360 has already had its security compromised to the point that the console's KeyVault, or how Microsoft uniquely identifies a console, can be swapped with another, thus allowing cheaters to evade the console ban.

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Just got modded on twice in a row on H3.

 

Nothing I can do about it but it's sad that the best ranked Halo option is the one that's rife with cheating.

Same got modded on 2 games then the next 2 got hit offline. I expected this though Modders,, derankers, host booters this is how it's always been.

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I feel this has now completely killed halo 3, can only find the same 7 people in MLG/Slayer on the 360 and now no one plays MCC (Halo 3), I've had an eventful 10 years on the game tho

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In 2011 after I stopped playing Halo 3 my roommate wanted to play in the MLG playlist but couldn't find any games because he was such a low rank.  I let him play on my account thinking I'd never play it again.  Foolish me, he lost so much I dropped rank from a 45 and now that I want to play it I am only a level 33 and can't find any games.

 

Thanks, Bob.

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If there are hacks I'd assume the one Antidope is referring to is Halo 3. He was either playing it on the 360 or via backwards compatibility on the Xbox One.

 

 

While I too have problems with certain aspects of anti-cheat development over the years, its a more difficult problem than you would think. Hacking games isn't usually done via "manipulating files" (at least the multiplayer aspect). Most of the time, cheating is done by poking memory values in real time, and in a P2P game, its often a very non-trivial problem to watch for cheating of that kind.

 

Any detection of cheating is already dealt with by console bans. However, any existing JTAG/RGH Xbox 360 has already had its security compromised to the point that the console's KeyVault, or how Microsoft uniquely identifies a console, can be swapped with another, thus allowing cheaters to evade the console ban.

How do I get said backwards compatibility on Xbox one and are you then playing on the same server as the 360 Halo3

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