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Halo Series Xbox One Backwards Compatibility Discussion

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Will never happen. It's M$'s BC team, not a remaster team.

A framerate upgrade won't be enough for it to be considered a "remaster".

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Some fans use their own nostalgia to build up Halo 3 in their mind and want to relive the good times, but nah. This game sucks.

Wrong. Some fans are able to look past the game's flaws and just play it for what it is. I guess that's a foreign concept around the webs.

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Wrong. Some fans are able to look past the game's flaws and just play it for what it is. I guess that's a foreign concept around the webs.

 

What it is is a game with a great core but some glaring flaws that have only become more apparent with age.

 

The aiming is bad, hit detection is bad, random spread is bad, FoV is bad.  Of the OG trilogy, its the hardest one to go back to.

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Someone on my FB made a comment in a Halo group about Halo 3 starting to show signs of its expiration date, and I think that's the simple glaring flaw here. It is an aged game. While many in the communuty may be blinded by nostalgia, that doesn't mean "the game sucks". Halo 3 is widely praised as the pinnacle of the franchise in virtually all aspects, and those days are just long gone. No amount of remastering, repopulation events, or the ability for BC will bring those days back. And with 343 at the helm, Halo 3 will probably never see a proper spiritual, fundamental successor that could bring those days back.

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What it is is a game with a great core but some glaring flaws that have only become more apparent with age.

 

The aiming is bad, hit detection is bad, random spread is bad, FoV is bad.  Of the OG trilogy, its the hardest one to go back to.

They haven't become more apparent now, than they already were back in 2007, people are just now remembering how poorly-designed the game was compare to Halo 1 and 2; nothing's change, really. People already knew FoV was too narrow, and hit detection was off. While the competitive community also disliked how the aiming system was in the game, and how much spread was in the BR and some other weapons, I'm not casual players general paid attention to those issues. Some people on sites such as GameFAQs, /r/halo, Waypoint would try to justify the spread by having to "learn how to handle it".

 

 

Someone on my FB made a comment in a Halo group about Halo 3 starting to show signs of its expiration date, and I think that's the simple glaring flaw here. It is an aged game. While many in the communuty may be blinded by nostalgia, that doesn't mean "the game sucks". Halo 3 is widely praised as the pinnacle of the franchise in virtually all aspects, and those days are just long gone. No amount of remastering, repopulation events, or the ability for BC will bring those days back. And with 343 at the helm, Halo 3 will probably never see a proper spiritual, fundamental successor that could bring those days back.

I agree with everything with the exception people being "blinded by nostalgia" (typically because it's a cop-out people used to legitimatize their arguments) and Halo 3 being an aged game means nothing to anyone here because no one cares how old it is. People were already aware of the game's problems long before its 10th birthday. And while people do have strong memories and attachment towards Halo 3 I don't necessarily think people are "nostalgia-blinded" towards the game's flaws. If they say the spread on the BR, the sandbox, FoV weren't issues, I would assume that they aren't educate on how game design works, or are just lying to themselves.

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They haven't become more apparent now, than they already were back in 2007, people are just now remembering how poorly-designed the game was compare to Halo 1 and 2; nothing's change, really. People already knew FoV was too narrow, and hit detection was off. While the competitive community also disliked how the aiming system was in the game, and how much spread was in the BR and some other weapons, I'm not casual players general paid attention to those issues. Some people on sites such as GameFAQs, /r/halo, Waypoint would try to justify the spread by having to "learn how to handle it".

 

 

They have definitely become more apparent now.  I'm not saying the actual problems have gotten worse in an empirical sense, just that its easier to notice, which effectively makes the experience worse. Back then playing on Standard-def 4:3 tube TVs with P2P networking was the norm.  There weren't many FHD, dedicated server, FoV slider games out as popular comparables.  There was shit back then that was "normal" and you just dealt with it and didn't think any less of the game because it effected every game. For example, having friends that you played with that you knew had to join the lobby in a particular order if they were going to be able to connect was something you just did, but now that kind of complication is unacceptable.

 

 

inb4 "PC did". no shit. 

 

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For example, having friends that you played with that you knew had to join the lobby in a particular order if they were going to be able to connect was something you just did

 

When was this ever a thing?

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When was this ever a thing?

Some people's NAT's didn't like each other, and if they couldn't/didn't know how to change it, then they had to adapt to play with each other by using a 3rd party.

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Someone on my FB made a comment in a Halo group about Halo 3 starting to show signs of its expiration date, and I think that's the simple glaring flaw here. It is an aged game. While many in the communuty may be blinded by nostalgia, that doesn't mean "the game sucks". Halo 3 is widely praised as the pinnacle of the franchise in virtually all aspects, and those days are just long gone. No amount of remastering, repopulation events, or the ability for BC will bring those days back. And with 343 at the helm, Halo 3 will probably never see a proper spiritual, fundamental successor that could bring those days back.

 

 

I came across this video earlier randomly. He mentions about the social network aspect of halo 3 during it's peak and how all the features fit together so well for so many different types of player.

 

I think it's easy to focus too much on the actual gameplay we liked, but it wasn't the gameplay alone that made Halo 3 what it was. Simple features from xbox live the way it was back then (1000x easier to use with a simple friends list). The fact you could start talking to everyone in every playlist and just press X at the end to party up after. You would just receive random invites to custom games from recent players for both MLG sweats and a new infection duck hunt map. And most importantly it was common, it wasn't weird to have a load of invites every few hours of playing. 

 

Halo 6 is gunna leave a lot of us disappointed with its gameplay and features that contract halo. But we might be able to get some of this atmosphere back if they make good decisions with simple features like playlists and being able to play together easily. 

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When was this ever a thing?

 

Haven't been on xbox live for very long have you? haha

 

That was very common.  Or voice chat working when one person started a party but not other people. or (my favorite) "I can't connect to you while in a lobby but if you start a custom game and leave it open i can join then you can end the game and i'll stay in the party then we can matchmake"

 

I just worked around this stuff for years and it was annoying but also "well this is just the way it is", but things have improved in these respects (for most games anyway...) so going back and being forced to deal with that shit again is terrible. 

 

As an aside (kinda)... its part of why MCC is still so bad.  All of those quirks still exist, but the stitched in lobby system together across the games seems like it made it far worse.  The people who say "MCC is fine now" obviously never play in parties.  

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Haven't been on xbox live for very long have you? haha

 

That was very common.  Or voice chat working when one person started a party but not other people. or (my favorite) "I can't connect to you while in a lobby but if you start a custom game and leave it open i can join then you can end the game and i'll stay in the party then we can matchmake"

 

I just worked around this stuff for years and it was annoying but also "well this is just the way it is", but things have improved in these respects (for most games anyway...) so going back and being forced to deal with that shit again is terrible. 

 

As an aside (kinda)... its part of why MCC is still so bad.  All of those quirks still exist, but the stitched in lobby system together across the games seems like it made it far worse.  The people who say "MCC is fine now" obviously never play in parties.  

 

I think he's been on xbox for a long time but just skipped an era where this was such a common issue. I don't really remember struggling with NAT issues in the early days of XBL, but during Halo 3's era every game I played was a struggle to get into lobbies and find one host that everyone could connect to. It's weird.. I think back to a bunch of older xbox live titles and yes there were poor connections and issues with matchmaking, but I did a lot of game battles prior to Halo 2 and don't remember jumping through the amount of hoops that I had to on H3, Shadowrun, Monday Night Combat etc.

 

You combine this annoying issue with a game that is terribly made (Monday Night Combat) where there is no team change option at all in customs, and you get two games in one. First game is a game of chess called setting up the lobby. The second game is the ones the developers intended you to play.

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What it is is a game with a great core but some glaring flaws that have only become more apparent with age.

 

The aiming is bad, hit detection is bad, random spread is bad, FoV is bad.  Of the OG trilogy, its the hardest one to go back to.

Amen.

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Some people on sites such as GameFAQs, /r/halo, Waypoint would try to justify the spread by having to "learn how to handle it".

Don't forget their favorite one: "you need to adapt." Beyond%20Laughing.png

 

I agree with everything with the exception people being "blinded by nostalgia" (typically because it's a cop-out people used to legitimatize their arguments) and Halo 3 being an aged game means nothing to anyone here because no one cares how old it is. People were already aware of the game's problems long before its 10th birthday. And while people do have strong memories and attachment towards Halo 3 I don't necessarily think people are "nostalgia-blinded" towards the game's flaws. If they say the spread on the BR, the sandbox, FoV weren't issues, I would assume that they aren't educate on how game design works, or are just lying to themselves.

Allow me to rephrase because I agree with you!

 

Halo 3 is an aged game, and it's true that no genuine Halo fan cares that it's old, but my point is this: remasters have overstayed their welcome, repop events are limited-time happenings simply for nostalgia's sake, and neither will BC bring back those strong memories and attachments toward classic Halo. I certainly have strong memories and attachments for classic Halo - especially Halo 3 - but the franchise just needs an installment that's a true spiritual, fundamental successor to Halo 3 for an attempt to begin to replicate how powerful classic Halo was in game design, in multiplayer. and in community throughout the installments. But until that happens, I'll more than gladly stay put in the classic Halo games like I have been since Halo 4 came out. Beyond%20Smiley.png

 

 

I came across this video earlier randomly. He mentions about the social network aspect of halo 3 during it's peak and how all the features fit together so well for so many different types of player.

 

I think it's easy to focus too much on the actual gameplay we liked, but it wasn't the gameplay alone that made Halo 3 what it was. Simple features from xbox live the way it was back then (1000x easier to use with a simple friends list). The fact you could start talking to everyone in every playlist and just press X at the end to party up after. You would just receive random invites to custom games from recent players for both MLG sweats and a new infection duck hunt map. And most importantly it was common, it wasn't weird to have a load of invites every few hours of playing. 

 

Halo 6 is gunna leave a lot of us disappointed with its gameplay and features that contract halo. But we might be able to get some of this atmosphere back if they make good decisions with simple features like playlists and being able to play together easily.

Thanks for the video! That sure brought up some major feels. Beyond%20Tear.png

 

I definitely agree with you in how the community was a major facet in classic Halo's success. It's unfortunate that all too much the topic of game design pushes the community aspect way far back.

 

However, in addition I do think there's a correlation with twitch game design and the lack of social cooperation. I remember it started in Reach with the addition of loadouts and AAs. In Halo 4 it was even worse - vehicles became fodder, more loadouts, AAs, etc. There was no sense of communication. On the other hand I remember playing in Halo 3, vehicles were useful, objectives were escorted and guarded, and that social network extended to the lobbies and beyond. Such a shame to see how far Halo has fallen in this aspect as well.

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Why Halo 3 was so popular and well received:

 

-Proper ranked/social split

-Overall military ranking (5 star general)

-Playlist EXP ranking (5 star general in Team Slayer)

-Teams of X matched teams of X with bars showing who is searching together. Teams of 4 ONLY matched teams of 4. Solos only matched 1 team of 2 but usually 4 other solos.

-Best BTB in series. Vehicles were strong but not overpowered.

-First forge experience on console

-First theater experience on console

-High involvement by Bungie (double xp weekends, special playlists, bungie teams would search playlists, etc)

-Armor that was unlocked by accomplishments rather than REQs

-Party up system that didnt require 3rd party applications to find teams

 

Things outside of Halo 3

-Youtube just started to explode. Thousands of new videos a week (Tops 10s, commentaries, machinima, etc)

-Everyone used mics at the time

-No COD(early H3), no Battlefield, etc.

-One of the only conpetitive games to watch at the time. No LOL, CS wasnt as popular, etc).

 

Pretty much a mix of the perfect timing mixed with excellent features. Halo 3 is still a bad competitive game and H1>H2>H3, but its important to remember everything that game did right along with what it did bad.

Halo 3 gets a bad rep here for not being "as good" as a competitive shooter as the first two games were, but people mainly focus on just that fact that it wasn't as well-designed from a competitive standpoint, and just on that one fact alone, without considering how/why it was even as popular and successful as it was in the first place. I agree with you, 100%.

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Another thing to add is that the game was addictive in the sense that the only way to rank up was to get better, in both the skill ranks and XP. You had to practice and put quite the amount of hours into the game to get to a decent rank. (yes I'm aware it was way easier than H2) None of this everybody wins XP systems found in CoD/BF/TF and all halos since Reach. Plus the BR and Sniper were actually hard to use, so you got rewarded for putting lots of hours into practice.

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Another thing to add is that the game was addictive in the sense that the only way to rank up was to get better, in both the skill ranks and XP. You had to practice and put quite the amount of hours into the game to get to a decent rank. (yes I'm aware it was way easier than H2) None of this everybody wins XP systems found in CoD/BF/TF and all halos since Reach. Plus the BR and Sniper were actually hard to use, so you got rewarded for putting lots of hours into practice.

The combination of EXP+Rank determining your overall rank was one of the best features in the Halo franchise to this date. Something so simple kept people playing for so long. How many people have a goal of reaching max rank in Halo 5? Not that many. It just shows you play the game more than other people. Almost every Halo 3 player had a goal of being a 5 star general. Its one of the key features(IMO) that needs to come back.

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The combination of EXP+Rank determining your overall rank was one of the best features in the Halo franchise to this date. Something so simple kept people playing for so long. How many people have a goal of reaching max rank in Halo 5? Not that many. It just shows you play the game more than other people. Almost every Halo 3 player had a goal of being a 5 star general. Its one of the key features(IMO) that needs to come back.

Full agree. Devs nowadays are scared of making skill ranks part of the requirements for the progression system, and yes there were problems (cheating, account selling), but to me that only shows how motivated people were. The ranks weren't the problem, the exploits were. Why Bungie removed that and gave Reach this boring-ass cR progression system is beyond me.

 

 

But Reach at least had cool military ranks. H4 and 5 are just so unbelievably boring with these SR ranks.

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Haven't been on xbox live for very long have you? haha

 

I think he's been on xbox for a long time but just skipped an era where this was such a common issue. I don't really remember struggling with NAT issues in the early days of XBL, but during Halo 3's era every game I played was a struggle to get into lobbies and find one host that everyone could connect to.

 

I used Xbox Live from early 2004 to 2006, then again from early 2008 to 2012, then MCC from 2014 to the end of 2015, then got back on again when H3 BC came out. I recall some people complaining about NAT in the Halo 2 days, but that's it. I was never in a situation like the ones described here (MCC clusterf*** excepted). It could be explained by the fact that I played very few Halo 3 custom games.

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I used Xbox Live from early 2004 to 2006, then again from early 2008 to 2012, then MCC from 2014 to the end of 2015, then got back on again when H3 BC came out. I recall some people complaining about NAT in the Halo 2 days, but that's it. I was never in a situation like the ones described here (MCC clusterf*** excepted). It could be explained by the fact that I played very few Halo 3 custom games.

 

Ahh yeah. Back then i played a lot of customs or MM with full parties.  Now i mostly solo queue, which makes me a little sad.

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I think he's been on xbox for a long time but just skipped an era where this was such a common issue. I don't really remember struggling with NAT issues in the early days of XBL, but during Halo 3's era every game I played was a struggle to get into lobbies and find one host that everyone could connect to. It's weird.. I think back to a bunch of older xbox live titles and yes there were poor connections and issues with matchmaking, but I did a lot of game battles prior to Halo 2 and don't remember jumping through the amount of hoops that I had to on H3, Shadowrun, Monday Night Combat etc.

 

You combine this annoying issue with a game that is terribly made (Monday Night Combat) where there is no team change option at all in customs, and you get two games in one. First game is a game of chess called setting up the lobby. The second game is the ones the developers intended you to play.

Omg I remember you showing me how to set up privates in MNC and I was just like "nope, I'm never dealing with that."

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