Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
MetaNigh7

Martin/Zimmerman Trial/Verdict/Aftermath

Recommended Posts

It's doubtful that anyone in the US has not heard of this or participated in its discussion, so we might as well share opinions on it here.

I'll simply repost one of the arguments I've had with a few friends on Facebook after we heard the verdict.

 

In response to a friend saying Martin decided to tango with Zimmerman, not knowing he was armed:

 

 


 2.)"that baby decided to tango with a 'creepy-ass cracker'"...No, we know as sure as day and night that Martin was walking in his FATHERS neighborhood, that he had every right to be in. Others in the community had stated that they had seen him around before. Zimmerman was the ARMED ADULT who followed the TEENAGER around, one would argue stalked. Is it a crime to follow someone? Probably not in this case, depends on how you argue the point. However, it does put an interesting frame on the situation, especially in regards to his "self-defense" claim.
Zimmerman, I believe was about 12 years older than Martin, had participated in some "ride along's" with Cops, taken some 'Stand Your Ground' classes, some MMA training and was a carrying a legal firearm. Apparently he was the self-appointed neighborhood watch captain(which in fairness, his community did appreciate). We know he followed Martin around for what he described as being suspicious (walking too slow and looking at houses, like what the fuck else are you suppose to do when you're walking around). His OWN Lawyer after the trial was over, goes on The View and says one of the principal reasons he thought Martin was suspicious was BECAUSE HE WAS BLACK(I'll link the video afterwards).
It's all guesswork and Zimmerman's story against...no ones...because Martin was the only other witness and he's dead. However, with what we do know: Martin was walking, minding his own business, completely unarmed, no criminal background. He was suspended a few times for truancy/tardiness, possessing a screwdriver(which the school called a burglary tool, while friends of Martin said he liked to build stuff) with women's jewelry(which he claimed were a friends and were not proven stolen at any point), and having a bag with marijuana residue.
That's when the details get kind of strained, and in my opinion THAT is where I thought it would be unreasonable to charge Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder, because we don't know what happened after that.
If you're a teenager, being followed around by some adult that you have NEVER met in your life, or ass Martin described as a "creepy-ass cracker" at 7 pm(kind of dark out around that time here in Orlando), in the rain, do you not have reasonable cause yourself to be suspicious and/or threatened by the person? If someone follows you around in their car while you're walking down the street at night, I GUARANTEE you that you'll feel a little unnerved and once that individual gets out of the truck to confront you(which Zimmerman once again admitted that he did), you do one or two things. You walk away or you say "the fuck are you doing following me around?". It violates ones right to privacy and can be seen as hostile move. You don't know the guy. Is he going to try to abduct you? Is he going to jump you? You don't know. This man is a complete stranger and is following you around at night in your dads neighborhood and he is much older than you. After Zimmerman gets out of the truck and this incident occurs with no witnesses and now Zimmerman has every reason at this point say Martin jumped him.

That is where the ENTIRE self-defense claim just goes out the damn window. You think this kid is suspicious and might be carrying something(Zimmerman states on the 911 call) and you're going to get OUT the truck to confront this person? No. That doesn't happen. You do that when you're feeling particularly balsy or you know you have an edge on someone(a gun). If you think someone is dangerous, you MIGHT (and that's a big might) follow them from the safety of your own Truck to make sure you can direct the cops to him, but you don't get out of the truck. Why do you need to get out of the truck? Give me ONE good reason you needed to get out of the truck. Just one.

 

After that, we don't know what happened. What we do know is that Martins DNA was not on Zimmerman and Zimmerman's DNA was not on Martin. That's intriguing because I'd assume that if someone was smashing my head into the grown as Zimmerman claim and I shot him THEN(as he said, which i don't understand how you get your gun from in between the boys thighs as you're getting pounded into the pavement all the while yelling for help, as he claimed), wouldn't there be some blood splatter on yourself? I'm no forensic scientist or expert on blood splatters, and I don't claim to be. Maybe because it was a 9mm that generally just goes through someone and doesn't cause too much blunt traumatic damage, coupled with the fact that Martin was wearing a hoodie with extremely fibrous material it blocked the blood from falling unto Zimmerman, but when Zimmerman went to get the boy off of him(because if you shoot someone while they're on top of you, you don't need to be an expert on angular physics to figure out they're going to land right on top of you), would he not have gotten a little blood on himself? I know, circumstantial at best, but it's something to think about.

 

My point is once you initiate the conflict, which Zimmerman did by stalking the teenager at night and then pursuing on foot, your right to claim self defense is waived. Had Martin approach him and pulled him out of the truck or even bashed the window, then yeah...he'd potentially have a very credible self defense claim. However,by his own admission we know that is not the case. He called 911, which would be the right thing to do as a CIVILIAN with no authority and makes ask them to come and investigate. He then pursues AFTER the 911 operator said "we don't need you to do that"(you can make all the arguments you want about the operator not being a cop and therefore not having any authority, but I guarantee you most people who call 911 usually fucking listen, because they are trained to handle direct you through hostile and uncomfortable matters such as that. You listen to the people you call for help. If your mechanic says change the oil or you might have problems, you change the oil. If your doctor says stop consuming so much sodium or you might have problems, you fucking listen and don't say "he's not my dad" when you wind up having a heart attack or some other health problem). He then GETS OUT OF THE TRUCK to confront this kid.

 

And I will get slightly personal with this to give it some context, I live here in Florida, and Sanford is only an hour away and the location for my godmothers 2nd small business, which I use to work for, so the area is not foreign to me and feels extremely close, like in my own back yard. I also grew up going to schools that were majority white, so most of my friends until my junior year of high school were white, which would put me right at Martins same age when the accident occurred. Knowing that, I think of how easily it could have been me in that situation visiting a friend in a predominately white neighborhood. What do you tell a kid to do when some adult stranger follows them around at night in the rain? The fact that Zimmerman said he looked suspicious because he was looking at houses and walking kind of slow is just appalling. Then the media wanted to cash in on the ratings with inflammatory debates on how wearing a hoodie makes you look thuggish(yeah, I'm looking at you Geraldo) and I'm wondering, wtf else do you want me to wear when its cold outside and it starts to rain? Everyone owns and wears a hoodie in Florida during the Fall/Winter and even Spring months in Florida.

 

Aside from that, I can come to terms with the verdict when someone makes the argument that the prosecution reached too far with a 2nd degree murder charge which they did not have the evidence to support, and because they mostly argued that and not the manslaughter charge they just whimsically added near the end of the trial with few and weak arguments. You have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to convict a man of murder and/or manslaughter, so that is somewhat understandable. Here in Florida, many of us do blame the prosecution.

 

That being said, rioting is stupid and does nothing for the cause. Make change by voting better and having peaceful protest, and demonstrations.

  • Upvote (+1) 2
  • Downvote (-1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

You're forgetting that Zimmerman's neighborhood had been broken into a number of times during the time period of the shooting. Then he sees, late at night, someone he doesn't know, dressed in black, hop the fence and start walking around the backs of homes.

 

I mean, that spells suspicious to me. Wouldn't it to you? It doesn't matter if the person doing it was black, white, or polka-dotted.

 

Furthermore, the assertion of "profiling" is the dumbest thing. Why? Because EVERYONE "profiles" EVERYONE.

 

We all make judgments and form opinions about people we DON'T EVEN KNOW on the street, at the mall, at school, EVERYWHERE, and we don't even think about it. We look at their clothes, who they're with, how they talk, how they walk, how they move, and an innumerable amount of other factors, and again, we don't even consciously think about doing it. We just do it automatically. Hypothetically, if you saw someone at the mall in FL wearing a thick sweater/hoodie in the height of summer, looking around nervously and acting jumpy, do you not go, in your head: "What's up with that guy?"

 

You are on point about the media though. They made the shit sandwich that was this meme of "RACIST WHITE BIGOT KILLED SWEET LITTLE BLACK BOY" (which was derailed slightly by Zimmerman being Hispanic, until they made him a "White-Hispanic", like saying Obama is "White-Black"), but they're eating it still because they make money off of that meme.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

I agree with the verdict.  People are like oh Zimmerman should have called/listened to the cops but he thought what he was doing was right and trying to protect his neighbors.  At the same time Martin could have called the cops about being followed or just went home.  He didn't have to attack Zimmerman.  Instead of calling the cops, Martin stayed on the phone with that hoodrat that can't form a single god damn logical sentence.  Besides, there was a bunch of expert witnesses that said, given the evidence, the situation most likely went down similar to the way Zimmerman said it did.

 

I agree the protests are ********.  Apparently it is wrong for a hispanic to kill a black guy in self defence but it' perfectly fine for black people to run and drive around shooting each other.  Look at Chicago.  Imagine if white people held these protests every time a white person was robbed/killed by a black person.  They would all be labled a bunch of racists.  But nope, the black people aren't racist, apparently it's not possible for black people to be racist against white/light skinned people.  Racism only works one way.  Duh.

  • Upvote (+1) 3
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

A ton of bad points in OP's post, a lot of misinformation and a twist of the the information that came out in court. I will try to break it down a bit.

 

1. Following someone.  Following someone the way Zimmerman did is not illegal.  And in reality, if you see something suspicious in your neighborhood following someone can put you in harm but it can also scare away a possible crime.  Why did Zimmerman follow?  Because there were 8 burglaries in the past year in a gated neighborhood, and 3 days before the shooting Zimmerman actually called in an attempted burglary in one of his neighbor's home.  So when you have that many robberies in a GATED neighborhood, if you are a responsible neighborhood watchmen and want to be a responsible neighbor... your alert level is high.

 

2. MMA / Fighting.  Zimmerman was not training for MMA on a daily basis for a year, he was on and off.  But not only that, his own trainer came to court and gave Zimmerman a 1 out of 10 rating in being able to fight.  He stated that Zimmerman was able to lost a couple of pounds in the gym, but that he was unable to actually punch someone and described him as "soft." 

 

3. Trayvon's History.  Trayvon got caught by a cop when he was ditching school and was going to get kicked out from his mother's house.  He also had THC in his system and from his facebook posts that got pulled there were posts of him dealing pills through wall posts on facebook.  This information can be read by reading articles on Trayvon's facebook/twitter posts and his text messages.  They couldn't be introduced as evidence since introducing evidence to judge Trayvon's character was not allowed.  Which is also the reason why a lot of Trayvon's friends were not put as witnesses.  If Trayvon was an "angelic" kid as the left media makes you believe, we would have seen a good amount of Trayvon's friends take the witness stand like we saw Zimmerman's friends take the stand. But they weren't, since it was going to hurt Trayvon's character image and show who he really was.

 

4. The Confrontation.  I noticed you threw in there that somehow Zimmerman admitted to getting out of his vehicle to confront Trayvon, which was not the case and was never said by Zimmerman.  In court evidence, there was a following and then a confrontation.  The following was initiated by Zimmerman, the confrontation was initiated by Trayvon.  Whether we cannot COMPLETELY say that Trayvon or Zimmerman made the confrontation, evidence (flashlight) and Zimmerman's testimony hints at Trayvon initiating the physical confrontation.  Like really, Trayvon initiated the confrontation? Yes.  Trayvon had 4 minutes of being able to run away from the area that Zimmerman was at, but he didn't.  My belief, and the jury member, was that Trayvon stuck around and surprised Zimmerman from the dark.  And if there was evidence included showing Trayvon's true character, it would agree that Trayvon would have wanted to jump Zimmerman and show him who the real boss is.  Like Jeantel stated on Piers Morgan, Trayvon was no thug... But Trayvon did show evidence of a wannabe "gangsta."  Real thugs wouldn't have ran and just straight up confront Zimmerman, Trayvon was a wannaba so he hid out and surprised Zimmerman.

 

5. Zimmerman getting out of the vehicle.  Zimmerman didn't get out of the vehicle to confront Trayvon, Zimmerman got out to see what direction Trayvon was headed to give the Police a better location of were to go.  Three minutes and 20 seconds after Zimmerman's call ended to Sanford police, the first Police Officer was at the crime scene.  The first officer actually went to the wrong location because Zimmerman was unable to think or figure out a correct address to give them.  I think he even gave his own address to the dispatcher from nervousness.  When the call ended to Sanford Police, Zimmerman was walking back to his vehicle and thats when the rest continued.

 

6. DNA. I am trying to keep from dishing out personal attacks, but real life is not fucken CSI.  They couldn't even find DNA of Zimmerman on his gun, and in your logic of thinking then... no DNA of Zimmerman on gun = Zimmerman not shooting the gun.  And if you are wondering where I got this from, it is from the ballistic examiners that testified in court that examined Zimmerman's gun.

 

7. 911 Operator.  He was not a Police Officers and stated in court he cannot give orders to people because of liability.  And to add, the 911 Operator asked what direction Trayvon was headed in, which would also make it seem like the Operator urging Zimmerman to find out the street Trayvon went on.

 

The who listening to your mechanic and doctor statement was childish and stated with emotion and not logically thinking.  For once, mechanics have a reputation of screwing you over (dealerships, jiffy lubes).  I personally do my own maintenance and oil changed on my vehicles so I have absolutely no experience dealing with mechanics except for one who is a family friend.  And family friend's advice =/= stranger's advice.

 

And just to make it personal...

 

I am a mid-twenties Hispanic living in the West Side of Chicago.  I have also lived in Southern California and I have lived with my parents who live in a 90% Suburban White Neighborhood.  And I can tell you, profiling someone based on what they wear and what race they are is a normal and understandable thing.  In my parent's town since 1999 there has been 0 murders, 0 reported rapes and around 6 robberies.  In their neighborhood though, there has been 0 robberies since they have been living there in 2006.  My parents and I do not profile anyone in the neighborhood or town since there is no history of a string of crimes by a certain group or type of people.  If there was like 10 robberies in the block by hispanic, white or black males, then yes it is logical to be alert when you see that type of person around your block if they look unfamiliar.  But this is a neighborhood that everyone knows each other, and they have the luxury of not dealing with that.

 

In Chicago... I have lived in two neighborhoods in the Lower West Side of Chicago.  Both neighborhoods were are about 80% Hispanic, 10% White, 5% black and 5% other (I am going off of data). But if you know Chicago, that is normal and it is also normal for a completely opposite neighborhood be right next to you.  Which in my case, both of the neighborhoods I lived in were neighboring a 80% Black neighborhood.  Once again, this is normal in Chicago.  In Chicago though, 75% of Murder victims are Black and 18% are Hispanic.  70% of Murder offenders are black and 24% are Hispanic.  So if you want to live in Chicago, you have to profile.  You have to profile the neighborhoods, you have to profile the people down the alleys, you have to profile the people on the bus or train and you have to profile the people walking down your street.  If I go down a Hispanic populated known gang territory, the chances of me seeing a black person would be slim to none. So seeing one, better raise my fucken suspicion since it can be a homicide attempt against a gang member or a robbery. And vice versa goes towards black neighborhoods, the chance of seeing a Hispanic down a black gang block is slim to none and if you see one you better profile.

 

So did Zimmerman profile Trayvon? Yes.

 

Was he wrong in doing so? No.

 

Why? 8 robberies in a gated community in the past year, the suspects reported of doing the robberies were all black young males.

 

Profiling can save your life in Chicago, or it can be non-existant and you do not have the understanding of it in the suburbs.

  • Upvote (+1) 3
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

You're forgetting that Zimmerman's neighborhood had been broken into a number of times during the time period of the shooting. Then he sees, late at night, someone he doesn't know, dressed in black, hop the fence and start walking around the backs of homes.

 

I mean, that spells suspicious to me. Wouldn't it to you? It doesn't matter if the person doing it was black, white, or polka-dotted.

 

 

When did he hop a fence? I read a lot and I never heard anything about hopping a fence or walking behind the back of homes.

That was his dads neighborhood by the way.

 

and 

@mortem

 

great valid points, but I had some discrepancies with a few:

 

1.) Following someone in that manner is not illegal and that wasn't my point. My point was when you're being followed, it doesn't matter who you are, it gives you a feeling of uneasiness and can be perceived as a threatening gesture. I think we can agree on that. Was Zimmerman wrong for it? Not exactly, given the string of robberies that had occurred in the neighborhood and with the title "watch captain", it would be dutiful to look into it and make sure this unknown person isn't around to do harm. However, once again, with both sides in frame, we can now also deduce did whether or not Martin have a right to be fearful and possibly act on his OWN "Stand Your Grown" rights. Again, this is speculative and without Martin to testify, it doesn't hold too much weight on its own. 

 

2.) Trayvon was no angel and I do think it was the medias decisive choice to paint him as this perfect kid who had done no wrong, and I can guarantee you it was to avoid the negative press and public outcry that I have no doubt would have ensued afterwards. I can picture Al Sharpton now: "This kid was killed, but yet the media wants to vilify him, even in death, which is completely insensitive and quite honestly, inflammatory towards the family who is still mourning their lost"[yeah, I guess I could be a civil rights leader].

However, if we're going to bring Trayvon's history into this, its only fair to bring Zimmermans as well:

For one he was charged with resisting arrest, and had a restraining order placed on him by his ex-fiance for domestic abuse.Source(they have restraining orders on each other)

You can decide yourself which of the two have the more adverse history.

 

If you want to bring their social media accounts into it, then once again we can point out Zimmermans ugly past as well

 

2 felonies dropped to 1 misdemeanor!!!!!!!!!!! The man knows he was wrong but still got this hump, Thanks to everyone friends and fam, G baby you know your my rock!

Source

 

3.) In my opinion the confrontation is the hardest thing to discuss about this case and is in my opinion the reason I'm not wholly livid about the verdict. We don't know for certain how it began and all we have is Zimmerman's initial testimony, and given that he didn't take the stand for cross examination(which is his right), we never got a chance to really find any holes in his story.

It's incredibly speculative from the outside. You say he hid in a bush after he lost track of him, but I could say he stopped, they argued and then got into a fight. Back to your comment with that Trayvon could have ran, who is he to run in his father neighborhood where he is visiting? Where would he run too? Even using that law that I hate so much, Stand Your Ground, he could have possibly exercised that right, and stood his place when Zimmerman approached him.

Speculative, which in my opinion lead to the verdict. You don't convict someone unless the prosecution proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty.

 

4.) I stand by my original statement with concerns to the 911 operator. Their instructions often save lives, whether it be directing small children in saving their parents who might be suffering from some sort of ailment, or instructing parents on how to save a choking baby. 911 Operators can help you navigate through stressful situations give your proper advice. I don't think there's any disagreement with that. As for the mechanic analogy, you're right...many of them are true scumbags just trying to get as much money from you as possible, its their job. The jist of that statement still remains is that in general, you trust the people that earn a living doing that they do to help you; doctors, lawyers, financial advisors, etc. Generally, if you disregard their advice and something negative happens to you, you're the one at fault. 

 

5.) Zimmermans DNA was found on his gun Source

Yes, I do in fact know that real life is not CSI, not in the slightest. I think I specified before that piece, that it was purely speculative and just meant to be something to think about and maybe raise more questions with.

 

And in regards to profiling, that is completely true. It is an innate characteristic of virtually every animal in existence. You see, and your judge. It's what keeps you out of danger. We profile all the time, all races and social classes. That is understood. However, when we're dealing with racial profiling, we're typically dealing with profiling winds up as harmful towards an innocent person, where their rights are being infringed(generally by the police or agencies), simply for being of a particular race. Not sure how often that happens in comparison to say, gender profiling and profiling homosexuals.

 

As for crime rates and statistics, that is another topic for another discussion(which I'd gladly discuss if someone made a topic).

  • Upvote (+1) 2
  • Downvote (-1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

So I guess all Hispanics eat Taco Bell and churros because they are Hispanic... *

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHdhW3LMg2g

 

 

 

*I'm a hispanic and I do in fact eat taco bell and churros

 

That was a racist statement

With that video being said, FOX news everbody

 

Also, didn't see your earlier post. I edited it to address your points.

And about him looking like a "thug" 

MSNBC-TRAYVON-MARTIN.jpg

 

Never knew "thugs" wore cuffed khakis.

  • Downvote (-1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

“It is better to risk saving a guilty person than to condemn an innocent one.”  - Voltaire

 

That said, Zim got the right verdict. 

 

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

I don't like how the OP quote and a lot of the sympathetic media keep playing up the whole child/adult, teenager/adult theme. Martin is a god damn 6' man for christ's sake. At night, in the dark there is no old/young dynamic. 

Zimmerman got the right verdict. 

None of us were there so speculating what happened and throwing blame or rioting is ridiculous. Lack of evidence means lack of guilty verdict. Everyone should move on. 

Share this post


Link to post

 

If Stand Your Ground applies to Zimmerman(and he principally used 'Self-Defense' over SYG), then it should DEFINITELY support Marissa Alexander. With the state prosecutor claimed she was charged so heavily because "she could have ran out the house" despite the fact that the Castle doctrine withholds that if you are in your own home, you have no duty to retreat from a hostile threat. The prosecutor also stated that it was because there were two children in the HOUSE, not the same room or vicinity of the gunshot, but because they were in the house.

I don't know about you, but I would ran out of my home while this abusive person is inside with my kids, nor would I want to kill someone if I can avoid it.

What the hell was she suppose to do?

 

The problem with the Zimmerman case, is less of the verdict, but everything that surrounded it. The benefit of the doubt that let him walk free for 40+ days before the arrest and the fact that in similar cases where the race were in reverse, African Americans were not afforded the same luxury and were arrested, prosecuted and convicted in a timely manner. The fact that some were let go AFTER they were convicted because the state finally recognized they were wrong is astonishing and even so, for John White, it was after 5 months being spent in jail and in the case of John McNeil, he remains on 13-month probation, where he must pay $75 a month and cannot leave the state of North Carolina

Share this post


Link to post

I just love how the media is trying to still play the race card yet nobody mentions all of the damage caused by blacks and all of the white people who have been randomly beaten up / killed because of it.

 

Trayvon was a wanna-be tough guy who attacked an innocent man and payed the price.  The liberal media is pathetic.

 

I am proud that the jury didn't succumb to what the media wanted to happen.  Anyone who saw the trial knows that Zimmerman was innocent, its a shame that a large portion of the black community rallies and rages when they probably only know what Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson say.

  • Upvote (+1) 1
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

When did he hop a fence? I read a lot and I never heard anything about hopping a fence or walking behind the back of homes.

That was his dads neighborhood by the way.

 

and 

@mortem

 

great valid points, but I had some discrepancies with a few:

 

1.) Following someone in that manner is not illegal and that wasn't my point. My point was when you're being followed, it doesn't matter who you are, it gives you a feeling of uneasiness and can be perceived as a threatening gesture. I think we can agree on that. Was Zimmerman wrong for it? Not exactly, given the string of robberies that had occurred in the neighborhood and with the title "watch captain", it would be dutiful to look into it and make sure this unknown person isn't around to do harm. However, once again, with both sides in frame, we can now also deduce did whether or not Martin have a right to be fearful and possibly act on his OWN "Stand Your Grown" rights. Again, this is speculative and without Martin to testify, it doesn't hold too much weight on its own. 

 

2.) Trayvon was no angel and I do think it was the medias decisive choice to paint him as this perfect kid who had done no wrong, and I can guarantee you it was to avoid the negative press and public outcry that I have no doubt would have ensued afterwards. I can picture Al Sharpton now: "This kid was killed, but yet the media wants to vilify him, even in death, which is completely insensitive and quite honestly, inflammatory towards the family who is still mourning their lost"[yeah, I guess I could be a civil rights leader].

However, if we're going to bring Trayvon's history into this, its only fair to bring Zimmermans as well:

For one he was charged with resisting arrest, and had a restraining order placed on him by his ex-fiance for domestic abuse.Source(they have restraining orders on each other)

You can decide yourself which of the two have the more adverse history.

 

If you want to bring their social media accounts into it, then once again we can point out Zimmermans ugly past as well

 

Source

 

3.) In my opinion the confrontation is the hardest thing to discuss about this case and is in my opinion the reason I'm not wholly livid about the verdict. We don't know for certain how it began and all we have is Zimmerman's initial testimony, and given that he didn't take the stand for cross examination(which is his right), we never got a chance to really find any holes in his story.

It's incredibly speculative from the outside. You say he hid in a bush after he lost track of him, but I could say he stopped, they argued and then got into a fight. Back to your comment with that Trayvon could have ran, who is he to run in his father neighborhood where he is visiting? Where would he run too? Even using that law that I hate so much, Stand Your Ground, he could have possibly exercised that right, and stood his place when Zimmerman approached him.

Speculative, which in my opinion lead to the verdict. You don't convict someone unless the prosecution proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty.

 

4.) I stand by my original statement with concerns to the 911 operator. Their instructions often save lives, whether it be directing small children in saving their parents who might be suffering from some sort of ailment, or instructing parents on how to save a choking baby. 911 Operators can help you navigate through stressful situations give your proper advice. I don't think there's any disagreement with that. As for the mechanic analogy, you're right...many of them are true scumbags just trying to get as much money from you as possible, its their job. The jist of that statement still remains is that in general, you trust the people that earn a living doing that they do to help you; doctors, lawyers, financial advisors, etc. Generally, if you disregard their advice and something negative happens to you, you're the one at fault. 

 

5.) Zimmermans DNA was found on his gun Source

Yes, I do in fact know that real life is not CSI, not in the slightest. I think I specified before that piece, that it was purely speculative and just meant to be something to think about and maybe raise more questions with.

 

And in regards to profiling, that is completely true. It is an innate characteristic of virtually every animal in existence. You see, and your judge. It's what keeps you out of danger. We profile all the time, all races and social classes. That is understood. However, when we're dealing with racial profiling, we're typically dealing with profiling winds up as harmful towards an innocent person, where their rights are being infringed(generally by the police or agencies), simply for being of a particular race. Not sure how often that happens in comparison to say, gender profiling and profiling homosexuals.

 

As for crime rates and statistics, that is another topic for another discussion(which I'd gladly discuss if someone made a topic).

 

1.  Zimmerman showed no aggression or like if he was going to act in a way that would cause great bodily harm or imminent death to Trayvon during the call, which was 3-4 minutes before the "fight." If Trayvon came out alive and knocked out or killed Zimmerman he would have to disprove the fact that Zimmerman showed no aggression during the call.  He would have to have evidence that Zimmerman did more than just follow.

 

Rachel also just answered that she believed Trayvon threw the first punch and the only thing Zimmerman did to initiate Trayvon throwing the first punch was just an attempt at holding down Trayvon until the Cops show up.  Attempting to hold someone for the Cops is not enough to use Stand Your Ground, the person has to show that he was about to cause great bodily harm or imminent death.

 

http://on.aol.com/video/rachel-jeantel--i-believe-trayvon-hit-first-517860142

 

2.  They both had a bad past in their lives, respectively.  

 

3.  When you feel someone is about to cause great bodily harm or imminent death and you made the decision to run... you will run as far from the scene as you possibly can.  I understand he wouldn't run to his father's fiancee's house, but those backyards didn't really have fences.. So he could just run.  

 

4.  Zimmerman got too comfortable and got too eager to stop a potential crime that would occur if he didn't get the direction Trayvon was headed towards.  It is the weakness of people who want to make the environment around them safer but have completely no knowledge on what it actually takes to makes an environment safe.  In other words, Zimmerman was a complete dumbass in following... especially when the details about him being physically weak and really no knowledge of fighting.  It is like people who watch UFC and go to the gym a couple days a week and lift some 15lb dumbbells and in their own mind they feel like they can kick anyone's ass, reality hasn't set them straight yet.

 

5.  I apologize for misinformation, for some reason I believed another "expert" testified to what I said.

 

Yeah I agree profiling is a touchy subject.  I don't believe in profiling Muslims who wear Burkas in Airports.  I guess it is not a black and white situation but more of a gray area.  When it comes to police agencies and federal departments, I think they step over the line when they use profiling and are completely abusing it.  The only way Police should be deterring crime should be by showing a presence.  More Police squad cars showing a presence in a bad neighborhood would deter crime, but a Police squad car driving around stopping a person because they are black or brown is stepping over the line. It is touchy.

 

 

Honestly, this Zimmerman v Trayvon case just comes down to self-defense.  What should be the limitations, if any, when it comes to self-defense.  I am a huge proponent of self-defense and I believe it should be any person's right to defend themselves to the point of disabling the perpetrator so they can stop causing bodily harm or possible imminent death.  And in this case, I believe for Trayvon to use self-defense Zimmerman would have to show a sign to cause bodily harm or imminent to Trayvon.

 

Only if people had cameras in their backyards, we would know exactly what happened.  

Share this post


Link to post

That was a racist statement

With that video being said, FOX news everbody

 

Also, didn't see your earlier post. I edited it to address your points.

And about him looking like a "thug" 

MSNBC-TRAYVON-MARTIN.jpg

 

Never knew "thugs" wore cuffed khakis.

 

Geraldo is a disgrace and should be banned from appearing on any tv news station, too bad Fox News likes sensationalizing situations like these.  Fox News, MSNBC, CNN and HLN should be taken off air and be replaced by RT America.

 

 

 

If Stand Your Ground applies to Zimmerman(and he principally used 'Self-Defense' over SYG), then it should DEFINITELY support Marissa Alexander. With the state prosecutor claimed she was charged so heavily because "she could have ran out the house" despite the fact that the Castle doctrine withholds that if you are in your own home, you have no duty to retreat from a hostile threat. The prosecutor also stated that it was because there were two children in the HOUSE, not the same room or vicinity of the gunshot, but because they were in the house.

I don't know about you, but I would ran out of my home while this abusive person is inside with my kids, nor would I want to kill someone if I can avoid it.

What the hell was she suppose to do?

 

The problem with the Zimmerman case, is less of the verdict, but everything that surrounded it. The benefit of the doubt that let him walk free for 40+ days before the arrest and the fact that in similar cases where the race were in reverse, African Americans were not afforded the same luxury and were arrested, prosecuted and convicted in a timely manner. The fact that some were let go AFTER they were convicted because the state finally recognized they were wrong is astonishing and even so, for John White, it was after 5 months being spent in jail and in the case of John McNeil, he remains on 13-month probation, where he must pay $75 a month and cannot leave the state of North Carolina

 

 

 

Firing Warning Shots is not protected under Stand Your Ground and should be illegal.  I am sorry but what Joe Biden said about firing "two shotgun blasts into the air" normally is and should be illegal.  The act of firing a warning shot normally means you are not facing great bodily harm or imminent death.  If you are truly fearing death, your goal should be to disable the person attempting to cause you that death.  Plus, we should not even get into the dangers of making firing Warning Shots legal.  Once a bullet goes up into the air, it shall fall down.  So if firing a Warning Shot is legal, and that bullet hits someone and kills them... Then that is legal homicide on someone who isn't involved in the situation?

 

Zimmerman should have never been arrested.  It should not be illegal to defend yourself.  Cops had no evidence to suspect that it was not self-defense, and the jury had no evidence to suspect it was not self-defense.

 

And you cannot compare Governor pardons to this situation.  John White was pardoned by the Governor at the end of his Administration, how it usually happens, for whatever reason the Governor wanted to.  President Ford pardoned President Nixon, are you going to tell me that Nixon was innocent and was about to be wrongfully accused? And their has been many cases were inmates working at Governor houses get pardoned because the Governor liked them and the Governor had nothing to lose politically.

 

John McNeil became guilty because his original attorney failed to tell the jurors they can acquit him if he shot in self-defense of his home or sons.  Instead of going to a new trial, he pleaded guilty to manslaughter.  But for whatever reason, you are accusing people of racism... Even though his attorney forgot to tell the jurors... that they can acquit him for shooting in self-defense...

Share this post


Link to post

Self defense for the man with the weapon, or for the kid dead. Hmm. I'm not even gonna indulge this. Prosecution crumbled under a charge that they couldn't work with and it showed under false pretense, shaky testimonies and conflicting stories. Zimmerman's lawyer must have hit up Casey Anthony's lawyer, because Florida seems to have a pretty shitty judicial system nowadays. 

Share this post


Link to post

Self defense for the man with the weapon, or for the kid dead. Hmm. I'm not even gonna indulge this. Prosecution crumbled under a charge that they couldn't work with and it showed under false pretense, shaky testimonies and conflicting stories. Zimmerman's lawyer must have hit up Casey Anthony's lawyer, because Florida seems to have a pretty shitty judicial system nowadays. 

 

So people who carry conceal carry to protect themselves cannot actually use the gun to protect themselves?  

 

People don't always buy guns for "fun" or for hunting... some people buy it for self-defense, and have the right to use it for self-defense when they fear great bodily harm or imminent death.

Share this post


Link to post
Rachel also just answered that she believed Trayvon threw the first punch and the only thing Zimmerman did to initiated Trayvon throwing the first punch was just an attempt at holding down Trayvon until the Cops show up.  Attempting to hold someone for the Cops is not enough to use Stand Your Ground, the person has to show that he was about to cause great bodily harm or imminent death.

 

Don't care who you are, if you're just walking around your neighborhood and some stranger who can't identify himself as someone with authoritative power(as neighborhood watch is not an authoritative position), at night, in the rain for WHATEVER reason them want to just spew out to justify grabbing you, you're going to fight back. As a teenager you know strange adults are not suppose to touch you when you're doing nothing wrong. I'm sorry, but if someone I don't know tried to grab or hold me down for just walking around, I'd swing. I don't know this individual, he's not a cop, and he's been following me at night and has now grabbed me. No.

 

Once again, that is HER speculation and should not be taken as a fact, but I thought rebuttal that point in particular.

 

 

 

Zimmerman got too comfortable and got too eager to stop a potential crime that would occur if he didn't get the direction Trayvon was headed towards.  It is the weakness of people who want to make the environment around them safer but have completely no knowledge on what it actually to makes an environment safe.  In other words, Zimmerman was a complete dumbass in following... especially when the details about him being physically weak and really no knowledge of fighting.  It is like people who watch UFC and go to the gym a couple days a week and life some 15lb dumbbells and in their own mind they feel like they can kick anyone's ass, reality hasn't set them straight yet.

Based on that statement, that would further back up my manslaughter decision. Zimmerman was a wannabe cop, as his past activities(ride alongs, classes, training, self appointed neighborhood watch captain) would prove so. He was overzealous and overstepped his bounds and disregarded 911 operators advice(which should count for SOMETHING when someone dies had they listened him). It is not clear that Zimmerman intended to kill Trayvon, but he did. He knew he was no in the physical condition to apprehend someone, but he knew he had a gun when he approached Trayvon which gave him the upper hand. 

With all that being said, the adult must bear some ownership and responsibility for the things that transpired due to his own actions. We can easily say, had Trayvon kept walking, he'd still be alive but we can also say had Zimmerman stayed in his truck and LISTENED to the operator, Martin would still be alive.

 

Zimmerman did not invoke the Stand Your Ground defense, instead he withheld self-defense. My point is, you right to claim self-defense is waived when you pursue a kid, at night,disregard 911 advice, knowing YOU CANNOT FIGHT, but you have a firearm. You see what I'm getting at? Zimmerman was out overstepping his bounds COMPLETELY. All the statements above Martin being the aggressor in my opinion are null and void because we KNOW for a FACT that Zimmerman FOLLOWED HIM. No disputes on that AT ALL. Just because Zimmerman has injuries, doesn't mean he was the innocent victim that got ambushed or whatever. Based on his past(domestic violence and resisting) as well as his over zealousness to be someone of authority(self appointed watch captain) it is VERY possible and probably MORE likely that Zimmerman did in fact initiate that confrontation but due o his inability to fight(as testified by his MMA trainer who basically said he's a pussy), he started getting his ass whooped by Trayvon and then shot him. Bam. Manslaughter

Thumbs up if you think I'd make a great lawyer :P

 

Also remember this, NO TOXICOLOGY was done on Zimmerman that night of the shooting (but for some reason they did a toxicology on the victim) and according to this statement from his friend, he liked to drink (he was also overly aggressive, which led to his firing as a security officer Source.

If actual protocol had been followed, there's a reasonable chance we would have found alcohol in his system on the day of the shooting.

The fact that he wasn't arrested then is really the only reason this story became headline news to begin with. 

Race Card: Had Zimmerman shot a white kid, or had a black man shot a white kid, they'd be arrested on the spot. There's no argument. Some of you will try to bring up O.J Simpson, but he was arrested and charged...he just wasn't convicted....and yes, I think he did it.

 

 

 

People don't always buy guns for "fun" or for hunting... some people buy it for self-defense, and have the right to use it for self-defense when they fear great bodily harm or imminent death.

Arguable, but Medical examiners opinion on Zimmerman's injuries

Share this post


Link to post

So I guess all Hispanics eat Taco Bell and churros because they are Hispanic... *

 

*I'm a hispanic and I do in fact eat taco bell and churros

 

HEY ME TOO :D 

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

So people who carry conceal carry to protect themselves cannot actually use the gun to protect themselves?  

 

People don't always buy guns for "fun" or for hunting... some people buy it for self-defense, and have the right to use it for self-defense when they fear great bodily harm or imminent death.

 

 

So he used the gun to protect himself for a fight he initiated by following the kid after the dispatcher told him not to. Okay, got it.

Share this post


Link to post

Zimmerman should of been found guilty. With that said they both was in the wrong. Zimmerman should of never followed him after police

told him not to. Trayvon should of called the police when he realized someone was following him instead of hitting him.

Share this post


Link to post

Zimmerman should of been found guilty. With that said they both was in the wrong. Zimmerman should of never followed him after police

told him not to. Trayvon should of called the police when he realized someone was following him instead of hitting him.

 

Instead of fighting.  Zimmerman can follow whoever he wants in public, it's not illegal.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Instead of fighting.  Zimmerman can follow whoever he wants in public, it's not illegal.

I never said it was illegal. But if I am walking and I realize someone is following I would call the cops while continue walking. The first thing that goes my mind when someone is following me is "oh shit this person is trying harm me and possibly have a weapon too."

Share this post


Link to post

Zimmerman should have been found guilty. He wasn't. What's done is done and I think we need to drop this, or at least stop giving it so much publicity.

That's just my opinion though!

-Alias

Share this post


Link to post

I never said it was illegal. But if I am walking and I realize someone is following I would call the cops while continue walking. The first thing that goes my mind when someone is following me is "oh shit this person is trying harm me and possibly have a weapon too."

A grown man following you at night in the rain at that

Share this post


Link to post

LoL at Zimmerman should have been found guilty.  Zimmerman was not guilty and shouldn't have even been put on trial in the first place.  The state had no evidence and Zimmerman was put on trial due to public outcry.  GJ Floridians wasting a bunch of money for a trial.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.