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Mib2347

I have devised a way to demonstrate heavy aim

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But the aiming is still hot garbage on my beast of a pc and my cpu doesnt go above like 20% usage lul.

 

 

There might be inconsistencies relating to xb1 having trash hardware, but the aiming curves/accel are still absolutely terrible.

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Yeah the mouse aiming is absolute trash. Probably the worst aiming on a PC game to date. The controller however, felt amazing. If you're going to use the mouse+KB for something on there, only use it for the actual forge stuff, but that's about it.

Can confirm PC aiming with a controller(xbox 360) is WAYYYYYYYY better than then playing on Xbox One. This is an outrage that Halo has such shit aiming.

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This makes me wonder as well. I'm kind of worried that he tried with the pistol, didn't get the results he wanted, then tried the carbine and found it "worked."

 

Even though I very much believe that the aiming in H5 is hot garbage, I'm not sure that this has proven anything yet. I would be very, very interested to see the results in H4. I suspect that they'll match H5's. Hope I'm wrong though and that maybe this will make 343 do something.

 

Regardless of whether or not this particular test is accurate, it should give 343 some ideas on what it is we're talking about when we complain about "heavy aim." Part of the problem seems to be that 343 never has any idea what we're talking about, evidenced by (I think) Tashi in the OpTiC video saying he couldn't tell what Royal 2 meant because he (Tashi) doesn't use a scuf.

 

Well, if this doesn't prove whether or not heavy aim exists, it at least provides a representation that 343 can use in their own testing, assuming they decide to do so. They would likely be able to come up with more controlled experiments to test this on their end.

 

In any event, there are so many people complaining about the aim that there's no denying the issue exists, and hopefully this will spur further investigation.

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I really wouldn't get too excited. I'm more inclined to believe the variation in numbers is due to the vibration differences between games, like a previous poster says.

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So, the real question is, if you were to pause the game between deaths will the movement be more consistent as many claim it to be? Or is the ritual of mapping START to your elite controller fruitless. 

Maybe that's why it seems more consistent in the campaign clip.  :apg:

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I really wouldn't get too excited. I'm more inclined to believe the variation in numbers is due to the vibration differences between games, like a previous poster says.

This is why i would like to see the results with a couple other weapons and a non-halo game. Preferably destiny because it has the best console aiming imo.

 

If it happens only in h5 and not any other game, then confidence can be pretty high about the validity of the results.

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But... But... But... I thought people were just complaining about the aiming because they were bad at the game and need to "git gud"?!

 

At least, that's what all the 343 fanboys told me time and time again when I mentioned the aiming sucks.

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I've modded a controller so that when it vibrates it activates the thumbstick to turn left at 100% force for however long the vibration occurs. So now when I shoot a weapon in game it vibrates which turns the reticle for a exact amount of time. This is a way of emulating a precise thumbstick movement.

 

Since you've already gutted your controller, I'd be more interested in an LED that lights up when the joystick is pushed any direction.

 

Then take a camera that can record at 120+ FPS and try to get some slow motion footage of both the controller LED, a stopwatch and the screen to show how long it takes for your aim to stop after letting go of the joystick compared to previous Halo titles as well as other FPS such as Destiny and Call of Duty.

 

Some of this work was already done by displaylag.com, however they haven't tested Halo 5 as far as I know... In fact, no one has. They showed Halo 3 has a higher input latency than previous Halo's by a significant margin which came as no surprise to me. I'd be interested in knowing if H5 was even higher.

 

Once again people... V-Sync. I've said it time and time again. I'd put money on it.

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If someone has time (I can do it after work), you can confirm the duration of the stick command input (and therefore the vibration length) by measuring the time it takes for the aim to move. For example, start at the frame the horizontal angle stats changing and stop at the frame the angle settles into the final value. If the number of frames in that timeframe is consistent, then we can be confident the input signal is the same.

 

I was working on counting the frames in the video, but it only appears to be 30 fps. There's too much uncertainty to really use it for measurements. I'm trying to see if you can get 60 fps video from the Xbox DVR.

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The aiming on PC was pretty fantastic from what I remember. The game just didn't run amazingly if I'm remembering correctly. Framedrops here and there. I would pray that these are two separate issues, because if they're able to replicate PC's (controller) aiming then that would drastically improve the game.

PC mouse aiming is trash but the controller aiming is leagues ahead of console.

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Any critical analysis is encouraged as if there's a way to make the testing more thorough then it gives the results more credence.

 

When are you testing? I can make a forge dev map which will eliminate (almost) all outside influences. You can reset to the exact same spawn every 2 or 3 seconds without dying. You will not need to die between shots so you don't have to worry about explosion physics residue and a pile of bodies and weapons.

 

Let me know if you are interested?

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As soon as you take that broken mechanic online the stress on the CPU only gets worse. If you have all your armor, helmet, visor, weapon skin unlocks loaded into ram then that leaves less for the CPU.

I said there was no way this was real a couple days ago. Sir, you made me eat my words.

 

This is probably the best post I've ever read on this forum, I spent the last 18 months trying to figure out if I was becoming crazy and I had a permanent placebo of my aiming being fucked up every two games, or if it was indeed a problem with the game. Thank you for sharing this information with us, you deserve a job at 343.

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Here's a test map if you want it. It simply teleports you off the map into the natural kill volume. Your body falls into the abyss and is cleaned up almost immediately.  

 

I can increase the timer if needed. Change the Respawn time to Instant in the game settings.

 

5 Second Reset

 

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Here's a test map if you want it. It simply teleports you off the map into the natural kill volume. Your body falls into the abyss and is cleaned up almost immediately.  

 

I can increase the timer if needed. Change the Respawn time to Instant in the game settings.

 

5 Second Reset

 

 

 

lol man, I actually did a similar thing. I made the map a dark room you're inside of. My hope is that, with high-framerate recording, the black background + the coordinates on screen will make it easy to read the coordinates in through a program, instead of having to hand type them in. 

 

Here's the map: map link

 

And a gamemode that has instant respawns, no grenades (to help with recognizing the coordinates on screen, as the grenades icon is right next to the coordinates): gamemode link

 

If you do decide to play in the dark room, make sure to record in 60fps. I don't think you can do that through the Xbox directly. I had to stream to my PC and then record it lol so idk if there's a better method. Let me know if you wanna go this route @@Mib2347

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I didn't look at all the comments, but I would assume that the inconsistency would have something to do with Aim Acceleration.
Since there is no way to set it to 0, there is always some kind Acceleration active, and the problem could be from the Acceleration applying inconsistently each time

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@@Mib2347 Do you happen to have a decent PC to run Halo 5 forge on?

 

I'm curious to know if these results would be reduced/similar/increased on the PC version of the game using the same exact variables you've conducted. I think if you did that and came up with different results, that would end a lot of the criticism seeing as the aiming is drastically different on the two platforms.

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Here is how I created the mod using a soldering iron, wire, and a £3 spdt relay. The mod is very easy even with little soldering experience and it is completely reversible. I have tried it on an elite controller and a regular Xbox one controller that is about 2 years old.

 

There are two potentiometers for the x and y axes on the thumbstick that register thumbstick movement. One is on the bottom of the module and the other is on the side. The bottom one is for the x axis so that's what I used.

 

There are 3 pins on each potentiometer. Looking at the pins with the thumbstick facing down I soldered one wire to the middle pin and one to the right pin.

 

http://m.imgur.com/oHmEUAm

 

If you connect these wires the controller thinks you're pressing left with 100% of the thumbstick turn. These two wires are connected to the spdt relay which keeps the circuit open until a voltage is applied to it to trigger the closing of the curcuit. This is what it looks like:

 

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/5v-dc-2a-spdt-miniature-relay-n91ed

 

And here mine is

 

http://m.imgur.com/wH8U54S

 

I then desoldered the rumble motor and used the pads to connect my own wires. I connected these to the spdt relay. Now when the rumble motor would normally be activated it instead triggers the relay to close the circuit between the potentiometer pins. This means that when the controller would vibrate that signal is used to make the controller think the thumbstick is being moved. This is where I soldered them. Polarity doesn't matter when you connect these to the spdt relay.

 

http://m.imgur.com/WHO7v3t

 

When you shoot a weapon in game it activates the rumble motor which using my mod triggers the thumbstick movement for a precise amount of time each time. http://m.imgur.com/EH26rHa,oHmEUAm,WHO7v3t,wH8U54S

 

 

Amazing work. 

 

Some thoughts:

 

1. Do you have an oscilloscope? Pulling off the vibration waveform from the two games could confirm or deny whether Halo 5 has a more complex vibration profile being sent to the controller. 

 

2. I know this probably sounds like a lot of work, but you could pretty easily buy a microcontroller from Sparkfun that would give us full control of the voltage / duration being sent back, which would fully decouple this test from idiosyncracies in the vibration. If you need help setting something like this up feel free to PM me, I can give you an overview of what you'd need to do. The headline is you set up an Arduino and a push-button, and the Arduino would scan a GPIO port to determine when the button was depressed. Once you pressed the button, it would apply an output voltage for a preset amount of time until one of its timers finished counting to X. 

 

3. Have you considered hooking up both axes of the joystick at once? Another way to prove there was strangeness in the aiming would be to show that the two aiming axes are not always the same relative to each other. This would be another way to exonerate the vibration profile. Perhaps the interpretation would be that each potentiometer in the controller is being read by separate polling routines or software interrupts, and thus have the potential to be called a different number of times over some fixed period of time when the cpu is under high load? This is a little questionable though, since underneath the A2D probably happens right on the controller and is then sent over via serial. Still might be interesting to try.

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If they just lock H5 at 720p instead of the current 900/1080p, that might solve this problem ... not sure if that can be done through an XBL update though

It doesn't fix the problem.

 

I was approached by a member of 343i several weeks ago on XBL after sending him some douchey message. He and I got into a conversation about the aim. He suggested that I try switching to 720p and seeing if that helped. He suggested it out of his own personal line of questioning he had in regards to aim problems. I tried it for a week. 10-20 games on nights I worked, 70-100 games on days I didn't. The slow aim was still present, just to a less degree. Almost like it was "fuzzy". If slow aim at 1080p is the surface of a placid lake where the actual sensitivity is somewhere beneath the surface, never coming to the top, slow aim at 720p is a lake with waves that occasionally let the sensitivity come out of the water during the peaks and valleys of the rhythm. However fucking stupid that sounds.

 

Mind you, this was a conversation with a 343 employee on a personal level, in no way related to the company, he explicitly stated that. He was just trying to help me out. So, I wouldn't draw too many inferences about whether "343 knew it had something to do with resolution and CPU the whole time". I don't know if that is the case, just don't use this information to try and make yours.

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Input lag is the time difference between when you press a button on the controller and when the game receives that input.

 

If you hold a button for 50ms the game is always going to receive an input which lasts 50ms, regardless of whether you have 0ms or 100ms of input lag. The difference is how long it takes for that input to be displayed on the screen. Input lag won't cause an inconsistency if the amount of time a button is pressed is always constant.

 

To use the aiming example, let's say that the reticule moves 45 degrees if you hold the stick for 50ms. Assuming the controller always rumbles for 50ms (which isn't something we should assume and the reason this doesn't prove all that much), the reticule will always move 45 degrees, regardless of how much input lag there is. 

 

The reason heavy aim makes the aiming feel inconsistent is because our brains are using the movement on screen to inform our thumbs of when to move. Varying input lag will make it it difficult to judge when to stop/start deflecting the stick and so you'll move the reticule different amounts depending on the amount of input lag. However, under controlled circumstances (ie: a button is held consistently for the same amount of time) input lag won't cause there to be a difference.

 

 

Again, I'm not saying heavy aim doesn't exist, I'm saying the op isn't proof of it.

 

of course you would be the only one trying to disprove or defend 343 on this. of course. 

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It doesn't fix the problem.

 

I was approached by a member of 343i several weeks ago on XBL after sending him some douchey message. He and I got into a conversation about the aim. He suggested that I try switching to 720p and seeing if that helped. He suggested it out of his own personal line of questioning he had in regards to aim problems. I tried it for a week. 10-20 games on nights I worked, 70-100 games on days I didn't. The slow aim was still present, just to a less degree. Almost like it was "fuzzy". If slow aim at 1080p is the surface of a placid lake where the actual sensitivity is somewhere beneath the surface, never coming to the top, slow aim at 720p is a lake with waves that occasionally let the sensitivity come out of the water during the peaks and valleys of the rhythm. However fucking stupid that sounds.

 

Mind you, this was a conversation with a 343 employee on a personal level, in no way related to the company, he explicitly stated that. He was just trying to help me out. So, I wouldn't draw too many inferences about whether "343 knew it had something to do with resolution and CPU the whole time". I don't know if that is the case, just don't use this information to try and make yours.

Setting you're display to 720p wouldn't keep the h5 engine from trying to generate a native 1080p image.
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of course you would be the only one trying to disprove or defend 343 on this. of course.

I hate 343 defenders as much as everyone else here and yeah the dude you quoted can be pretty ridiculous sometimes, but in this case he has a point. If we want to have scientifically accurate data we need to make sure that there are no other factors at play here.

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of course you would be the only one trying to disprove or defend 343 on this. of course.

Tell me anything I said which isn't true.

 

 

 

I'm not even fucking defending 343, I'm saying the op doesn't actually prove anything.

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I hate 343 defenders as much as everyone else here and yeah the dude you quoted can be pretty ridiculous sometimes, but in this case he has a point. If we want to have scientifically accurate data we need to make sure that there are no other factors at play here.

 

oh i get that scientific rigour is a must, but i just find it so funny that of all the people to try and semi-deny or defend 343 it's MeanBean.     :laughing: 

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