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CyReN

HCS Pro League Summer 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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I tend to think the way stuff like sprint, thrust, ground pound, and clamber have changed what makes a good play vs a bad play in Halo isn't necessarily a good thing, but that's just me. You get away with putting yourself out of position a lot...or what used to be out of position. #adapt

I think frosty is a prime example of a person that gets away with (rarely) horrific positioning just because of clamber. That mechanic alone has destroyed the movement skill gap of halo.

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I can see your point on the "stale" feeling. Do you guys think that more players feel this way?

 

Also, what map/mode combos would you guys like to see be tested?

Mercy TS, Flag, and SH with a completely revamped weapon layout-that's the most important part, the current weapon layout is fun but not meant for serious play.

 

Torque TS and Flag- may have been significantly improved by the new radar and settings. They originally weren't all that bad themselves anyway.

 

Very unpopular opinion- Molten SH

 

It would be a massive undertaking, but if we could get a working Oddball that'd be super cool.

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Oddball on Rig would be awful. It'd be Pit KotH spawn issues all over again.

oddball on eden or empire could work well though

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If Huke leaves Halo, I could see NV getting Saiyan.

 

where is this coming from? was something said during pro league last night that i missed?

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where is this coming from? was something said during pro league last night that i missed?

Not that I know of, I'm pretty sure they're just speculating
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I've only known him on a more personal level for like 6 years, but regardless, I say the same thing about all the pro players. It's not their responsibility to help the game grow. 

i said exactly this, multiple times now

 

I'm not even sure exactly what people think they can do? YouTube content? Stream? It takes an enormous amount of time and effort to grow those things just for yourself, let alone a game you may be trying to promote...and it still may never take off.

yes? promote the lower tier players and their content? promote your fellow players and their content? try and attract other FPSers to your game?

 

it's okay that you don't know what they can do, 99% of halo players have no idea how to market themselves even though it's not rocket science

 

Anyway, what makes you think he (or most pros) care about being "relevant?" I don't think he's ever wanted the spotlight or the internet star power. Guy just wanted to play Halo and compete, and happened to be able to make money while doing it. 

i never said that they did? but human nature generally

 

That wasn't because the players did anything to make the game more popular...it was because the developers made a (couple) great game(s) that another company could use as the foundation for their league; and that league was run by competent people that knew how to cultivate their fanbase on their own.

duh but players can also help make their game more popular

 

they can rise their own profiles which would collectively make the game more popular

 

I'm not sure what former athletes you're talking about that champion their sport, because all of the top tier professional leagues don't need any players to go around promoting it. Athletes and former athletes just do commercials for their sponsors...because it makes them money, which has nothing to do with their craft.

those other sport leagues (and games) have also been around for 60-100+ years, those sports were grown through multi-generational efforts

 

there are literally too many former professional athletes to name who are currently involved with youth sports, have youth sport foundations, or donate their time and money towards youth sport efforts

 

and frankly that's just one aspect of 'championing' your sport, but maybe you're right, maybe all these athletes don't truly love their sport and they are only willing to spend their time advertising shaving cream, maybe life is just that black and white

 

 

tl;dr - 2gre isn't obligated to help grow halo but that doesn't free him from that criticism, if he wanted to help grow the game he could have

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I can see your point on the "stale" feeling. Do you guys think that more players feel this way?

 

Also, what map/mode combos would you guys like to see be tested?

Oddball and king of the hill for modes.Ask the pros what forging can be done to fix the maps that currently aren't in hcs rotation.

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I can see your point on the "stale" feeling. Do you guys think that more players feel this way?

 

Also, what map/mode combos would you guys like to see be tested?

Oddball please.

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I think frosty is a prime example of a person that gets away with (rarely) horrific positioning just because of clamber. That mechanic alone has destroyed the movement skill gap of halo.

 

Clamber in a vacuum doesn't bother me.  What bothers me is that many many very basic jumps require that you use it.  All of those should be crouch-jumpable with clamber only being required for more extreme jumps.  However, this (much like sprint) makes map design harder and means jumping and positioning mistakes "hurt less".  You can't control the flow of a map based on geometry as well as you could before because you can bet your ass that the community will find ways to mess with it that were never intended.  Not that players weren't finding unique ways around before advanced mobility, but at least the pace of that movement was controlled.  Edit: its for those bigger picture reasons that i don't like clamber.

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i hate losing talent but if huke leaves i'll have nothing but respect for that decision

 

the kid is a beast and premier players should be playing the premier games

 

If? what you mean if?

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If Huke leaves Halo, I could see NV getting Saiyan.

It's almost a certainty that he's going back to Call of Duty. Halo 5 is brutal, and as someone else stated, he picked up Halo because he was barred by age restriction from competing in Call of Duty. 

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I can see your point on the "stale" feeling. Do you guys think that more players feel this way?

 

Also, what map/mode combos would you guys like to see be tested?

Halo 5 answer:

- Oddball and Assault

- I don't think new maps are necessary as playing new gametypes on them will help the current maps feel fresher

 

H2A answer:

- Remove radar

- Add Oddball and Assault

- Remove Banshee on Zenith

- Remove Ricochet

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Snakebite as always offering some interesting comments.

 

About T2: Why do people care so much about his "bias?" It's fucking Halo - a video game; not the federal ethics department. 

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Oddball on Rig would be awful. It'd be Pit KotH spawn issues all over again.

 

I could definitely see that being the case, on the other hand it's one of maybe 4 maps in H5 where holding traditional set-ups is viable. And it played pretty well in the lobbies I played in. Granted this was about a year ago.

 

oddball on eden or empire could work well though

 

Have tested most maps for Oddball. Empire was pretty bad, Eden was fun (A little easy to rotate the ball around, but that may be a good thing for H5), Truth was the best symmetrical map by a lot.

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i said exactly this, multiple times now

 

yes? promote the lower tier players and their content? promote your fellow players and their content? try and attract other FPSers to your game?

 

it's okay that you don't know what they can do, 99% of halo players have no idea how to market themselves even though it's not rocket science

 

i never said that they did? but human nature generally

 

duh but players can also help make their game more popular

 

they can rise their own profiles which would collectively make the game more popular

 

those other sport leagues (and games) have also been around for 60-100+ years, those sports were grown through multi-generational efforts

 

there are literally too many former professional athletes to name who are currently involved with youth sports, have youth sport foundations, or donate their time and money towards youth sport efforts

 

and frankly that's just one aspect of 'championing' your sport, but maybe you're right, maybe all these athletes don't truly love their sport and they are only willing to spend their time advertising shaving cream, maybe life is just that black and white

 

 

tl;dr - 2gre isn't obligated to help grow halo but that doesn't free him from that criticism, if he wanted to help grow the game he could have

People wouldn't stick around to grow the grassroots of a sport if the fundemental rules and structure of the sport were changed every 3 years.
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It's almost a certainty that he's going back to Call of Duty. Halo 5 is brutal, and as someone else stated, he picked up Halo because he was barred by age restriction from competing in Call of Duty. 

 

Plus the new CoD looks better than Halo 5. So it's not a tough choice to make imo. 

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I feel like I posted on this topic many many times, but ill give it another go since it is relevant and 2gre is someone who seeing his name bashed in any way is silly.

 

I have one question for everyone here, and I need an honest answer. Is streaming not promoting a game? I ask this because 2gre is basically a full time streamer for halo/destiny(yes he has a right to play other games I think we all agree on that), I've had people come at myself/teammates before for not promoting halo etc etc. Meanwhile TJ and Brad stream 5+ hours a day(on average I would say).

 

The thing I'll say about 2gre is this. He came from a different generation of players. Now a days streaming, youtube etc etc are all these hyped up promotional tools. When in reality it's something I'm not even comfortable using since I grew up in the 09 era of halo basically. Halo has always been about one thing, trying to be the best. Idk I guess I can get where people are coming from with 2gre or anyone needing to promote halo better. I'd just assume people would understand 2gre a bit more since he is the basically the reason orgs are in halo. Which without some of these orgs I'm not sure how well we would be doing overall. He stayed apart of halo even after he stopped playing when he was still fully capable, and still streams a game I'm sure he has no desire to play. Think someone mentioned it earlier, but to me it's not like streaming halo, hosting the halo channel, coaching EG etc etc are all exactly him sitting around doing nothing.

 

I do want to say this and I'm sure I have multiple times. Being a professionally player is more difficult now than it has ever been(at least from when I have been a professional back in 2009). Any pro who is still around from back then will tell you the amount of time and effort you have to put into this game compared to games prior is actually pretty ridiculous. I'm not sure if it is because of h5 mechanics or because that is basically how esports is in general now, but making content or w/e would have been much easier back than compared to now (in terms of time). Now I could obviously go and just upload a game from scrims, but I have been told many times by people on this thread not many actually want to see that nor will it help it grow. For me it's always tough seeing these kind of comments because i watch my teammates as well as other pros put in countless hours and it's not like it helps much. One of the main reasons we went to OG was to help boost halos viewership( judging by numbers I believe we accomplished that, they most likely would have been lower if we went to one of the other orgs offering us). 

 

Anyways thanks for reading my monthly long post. Just how I feel about some things with how long I have been apart of this community. Feel free to neg it, + rep it or tell your parents a Pro player was active with the community(gasp). I like to think I see both sides of every argument. Hopefully people see where I come from. Have a good day  

Great post, but I do kinda disagree with one thing. Where you said it takes so much more time now to be professional. I don't think the top level guys from H1 or H2 played less of those games than pros play H5. I would actually say they played more. However, it was easier to play for hours on end when you truly truly loved the games.

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IMO, the amount of time it would take to make a dent in growing the scene is too large when H5 is in the shape it's in. You could stream. You could edit your content to serve on different platforms. You could take time and money to help organize local LANs(dae H5 LAN? :V). You can market Halo and yourself to different sponsors or try to bring more orgs into the scene.

 

Even after doing all this, it would be a pitiful amount of people you may have brought in. You can't out promote a bad game/scene. The viewers won't stick. Their is too much great competition and excitement for people to stick around for a sub par experience. 

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I really wish our community promoted the older games as well. Not just the community but various people in from 343 or M$. It was nice to have a pro team play in the Halo 3 tournament. It was cool to watch both the Howies Gaming Shack and EsportsArena Halo 2 events. Of course, lots of CE stuff happens so having the support of a handful of Halo 5 pros and community members were really helpful. All it took for CE for Beach LAN 5 was a few tweets and hosts and you guys gave CE more than it has had in a decade plus.

 

I just see various complaints (not saying they're invalid) with the game and scene but at the same time we don't really do much to support each other beyond the current game. It's less that I think the old games are some key to success for getting us to a top esport, and more along the lines of if you really enjoy the old games like you claim back in the day, how hard is it to toss them a little support?

 

I still hope for an EVO like event for Halo.

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