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HCS Pro League Summer 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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I'm actually interested in getting the opinions of various females who have competed throughout Halo's career in the MLG circuit and see how they feel about this idea. PMS was a major clan and they'd sometimes send a few all girl teams to events, then you'd have plenty others who were on mixed teams. I wonder if this is something they'd be for or against.

 

Personally, I'm indifferent so it's w/e. If anything I give them some props for actually making something out of the league, meaning that so many people out there want THIS or THAT from Halo and usually just complain but don't put much effort into making things happen. Nice to see someone actually make an effort.

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Imo, there's nothing wrong with a female only league, but I do agree that the top females should ALSO try and make it in the "normal" leagues. Being completely isolated will almost definitely result in stagnation.

 

It perpetuates gender segregation and the illusion that "female pros" are anywhere near the league of the legitimate top competitors in any game. People can say all they want about "sexism," but the unfortunate reality is that a lot of these stereotypes are self-inflicted. The vast majority of "female pros" in basically any competitive game don't grind anywhere near as much as the actual competitors, because they don't have to and they are fine with marketing themselves as "girl gamers" and participating in women-only events. And that's certainly unfortunate for the apparent minority of women who really want to compete, but the only way to break those stereotypes is to step up, stop playing in segregated leagues with gold rank FPL "pros" and actually kick some sweaty am kid asses in a real competitive setting. I have no doubt that there are women capable of doing this if they actually worked at it.

 

​Fundamentally, I think the larger problem is that men tend to have much more competitive drive than women (sexual dimorphism) and a lot of women just don't like that environment. It always framed as sexism when women enter a male-dominated space and it doesn't change entirely to suit them, but that's the reality of serious competition. It's "manly." Creating a separate "girl space" to counter that just fosters disrespect for those players (and other women who might want to compete, since it's being treated as a group problem). But people keep doing it, because the assumption is always that if women aren't 100% as successful as men, it can't possibly be the result of their own choices or abilities. It's a self-perpetuating problem.

 

​I enjoyed Thorin's take on it.

 

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I always wonder why, although there are many females who can compete on the highest levels of competitive gaming, women haven't been able to break into top teams. The FPL have been a thing in CoD for a good few months now, and some amateur teams have women's teams for CoD, although I do remember that an AU team for the first league season in Black Ops 3 had a female on the pro team, albeit I believe they were relegated at the end of the season.

 

I dont think its as much a problem within the community but more the idea the skill gap is there at times. If a female was good enough to be on the team put them there, although I wouldnt wanna see girls on teams just to feel quotas, without that meaning to sound sexist at all.

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I knew a few girls that would sauce the shit out of most people in a bunch different games lol; including Halo. But it's not their desire to beat Optic or anything. It's just the thrill of competing and being in the community. 

 

This is a recent video produced that explains why female "leagues" are good for the community, and gives a direct affirmation from members in the community. 

 

 

If you're wondering why female leagues are important/created, I think you should watch this, it's short, sweet, and gives a good insight to what you all are wondering about. If you're not going to watch the video at least listen to what Milktea (black jacket on the couch) says around :40s.

 

I think a lot of people tend to forget we play games to have fun.

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Was there not a team at a recentish LAN with 2 female 2 male players. One of the female players was bittersweet but cant remember the name of the other female player

Yeah Snipedown was coaching them too. I remember cause they had a match on mainstage that I watched. I can't remember how they played, but I was surprised to see that there's an FPL considering I don't see that many women at the opens.

Edit: I can definitely understand not wanting to put yourself in the sort of sexist environment that exists in esports. The twitch chat gets pretty brutal and I'm sure some of the people at these events are no better.

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Separating themselves into separate spheres and not competing with men will only preserve that sort of sexism.

I guess, I don't think teenage boys are ever going to change but I heard ya

 

I'd rather they do fpl and compete in hcs

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I knew a few girls that would sauce the shit out of most people in a bunch different games lol, but it's not their desire to beat Optic or anything. It's just the thrill of competing and being in the community. 

 

This is a recent video produced that explains why female "leagues" are good for the community, and gives a direct affirmation from members in the community. 

 

 

I think a lot of people tend to forget we play games to have fun.

 

I honestly think that's a much different and much better approach from a rhetorical perspective than something like a "female PRO league." The message is important. More of a focus on community and participation, more of a way for women to get interested and get involved, and less of a faux professional atmosphere (and therefore less ego involved).

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I honestly think that's a much different and much better approach from a rhetorical perspective than something like a "female PRO league." The message is important. More of a focus on community and participation, more of a way for women to get interested and get involved, and less of a faux professional atmosphere (and therefore less ego involved).

 

I actually think the concepts are identical, it's just a lot of people here view it in a negative light specifically because of the word "pro" as you've highlighted. The Smash Sisters scene is still a competitive atmosphere; there are definitely sponsored female Smash players in the same exact aspect that there are sponsored female Halo players. They compete in the open bracket too, but in the same light, I'd imagine it'd be a nice niche community to be involved in. 

 

I hate to bring up the sexism argument because like Milktea said in the video, I highly doubt it's an attempted solution to "stop all sexism and misogyny" and things of that nature, but it's rather another way for female players to make friends yet still compete in a competitive environment. Because let's face the reality, it's difficult for females to make friends with other females in gaming, because it's heavily male dominated. 

 

And like I alluded to earlier, I think most people forget that having fun comes first, not being the best in the world.

 

I think people just need to stop taking the word "Pro" to the heart, because it's really not that serious nor do I think anyone in their community takes it that way.

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To be completely honest

 

I don't give a shit if its a girl on main-stage or not.

 

If you're good, you're good, regardless of gender. Not to mention, most of the people who openly try to push women out of gaming are most likely under 14 and would probably get shit on.

Same kids who say just cause they got boobs dont mean they are good but my man tits can out AR them any day :kappa:

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And then Eco went to Liquid and outplaced them. So it's definitely not like he was keeping their ceiling low.

He grew tired of losing to contra/devon

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I actually think the concepts are identical, it's just a lot of people here view it in a negative light specifically because of the word "pro" as you've highlighted. The Smash Sisters scene is still a competitive atmosphere; there are definitely sponsored female Smash players in the same exact aspect that there are sponsored female Halo players. They compete in the open bracket too, but in the same light, I'd imagine it'd be a nice niche community to be involved in. 

 

I hate to bring up the sexism argument because like Milktea said in the video, I highly doubt it's an attempted solution to "stop all sexism and misogyny" and things of that nature, but it's rather another way for female players to make friends yet still compete in a competitive environment. Because let's face the reality, it's difficult for females to make friends with other females in gaming, because it's heavily male dominated. 

 

And like I alluded to earlier, I think most people forget that having fun comes first, not being the best in the world.

 

I think people just need to stop taking the word "Pro" to the heart, because it's really not that serious nor do I think anyone in their community takes it that way.

 

Again, it's the message. If they are not professional players, why call it a pro league? Those words have meaning and within the larger context of competitive games, there is a lot of making "women's leagues" and then insisting that they are equivalent to the non-gendered leagues ("male" leagues). There's a lot of baggage and gender tribalism tied to that. It doesn't exist in a vacuum.

 

If it's about community, friendly competition, and just having fun, then advertising it as a "pro league" is doing it a disservice by encouraging comparisons to, say, CLG Red. It's not "the same concept" at all. A pro league generally IS about being the best in the world. If that's not the goal, then the name is stupid. Are people supposed to just intuit which "pro leagues" are taking it seriously and which aren't?

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To be completely honest

 

I don't give a shit if its a girl on main-stage or not.

 

If you're good, you're good, regardless of gender. Not to mention, most of the people who openly try to push women out of gaming are most likely under 14 and would probably get shit on.

A lot of people wont be able to see past that tbh. Its unfortunate but i would find it hard to compete when my looks got pulled into the occasion. It happens from politics to acting, for whatever reason appearance becomes an attackable feature.

 

It all comes down to attitude and i feel like the gaming community as a whole is not quite there yet.

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A lot of people wont be able to see past that tbh. Its unfortunate but i would find it hard to compete when my looks got pulled into the occasion. It happens from politics to acting, for whatever reason appearance becomes an attackable feature.

 

It all comes down to attitude and i feel like the gaming community as a whole is not quite there yet.

 

Appearance is an "attackable feature" for both sexes, from politics to acting. The only difference is that people don't get offended when you talk petty shit about men.

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If connection mattered as much as you say it does, there's no way 343 would allow the Pro-league to be online based. It just doesn't make logical sense.

I don't know how many times I've read some of your posts without looking at your name first and thinking "How fkn stupid is this guy- oh its just nav.."

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Aim/hit registration - isn't it possible we think head shots aren't registering because we no longer have an AR in our back pocket to clean the kill up?

 

How would that even work mentally?

 

*misses shots with pistol*

*switches to AR*

*cleans up kill*

 

"Gee, I'm glad I landed that headshot with my pistol"

 

?

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Again, it's the message. If they are not professional players, why call it a pro league? Those words have meaning and within the larger context of competitive games, there is a lot of making "women's leagues" and then insisting that they are equivalent to the non-gendered leagues ("male" leagues). There's a lot of baggage and gender tribalism tied to that. It doesn't exist in a vacuum.

 

If it's about community, friendly competition, and just having fun, then advertising it as a "pro league" is doing it a disservice by encouraging comparisons to, say, CLG Red. It's not "the same concept" at all. A pro league generally IS about being the best in the world. If that's not the goal, then the name is stupid. Are people supposed to just intuit which "pro leagues" are taking it seriously and which aren't?

 

Again, I think getting hung up on the word "pro" completely diverts the attention from the goal it's trying to accomplish.

 

Based on your current argument, it's called a pro league because they are doing what you're explaining: Competing to figure out which is the best female team. They play on all female teams.. They play for money (I assume? Right?) which could be classified as professional if we want to get technical. Lastly, and most importantly, they're still competing. That aspect has not changed, regardless of the gender involved. These same female players are also allowed to compete in the HCS open league (or whatever it's called), and the female community does not interfere with the current league by co-existing.

 

I personally think Smash Sisters is a bit more catchy than Female Pro League, but if the entire argument is based on the name, then I'm not seeing the reasoning here. They are taking seriously. And by simply seeing the name "Female Pro League" that should be more than enough to illustrate the fact that this is a minor facet in regards to the entirety of competitive Halo. The subset is in the name; I personally see no reason to change it simply because people don't like the word "pro."

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I look at the FPL as a developmental league. Let them play each other, get better, who knows maybe the team that wins it will decide to come over and try and compete for a pro league spot. Or have one of their players poached. I'm not too upset about it existing really, especially since it helps grow the competitive scene overall.

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Random: 

 

I played against Suddoth in Destiny yesterday. He's pretty good lol. 

 

Halo players always translate well into other shooters, I found. 

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Halo players always translate well into other shooters, I found. 

I wish this applied to me :(

 

Destiny PvP is the roughest thing for me.

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