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CyReN

HCS Pro League Summer 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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H2 and H3 were so good because MLG made sure they were played on the most competitive settings. 343 are set on making the default game good for both casuals and competitive players which doesn't work. All this hype for the H3 tourney got me back on MCC and god is it fun.

 

Edit: And aiming in H2 is so good 343 please

Would be nice if I could play a game of Team HC without someone quitting. It's the only way I can play bearable H3 settings.

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The fault is not they tried to bridge the gap, it is that the base settings were just shit. i.e auto's overpowered, shit aiming, poorly laid out maps, poor weapon spawn timers etc.

Even if they were to do a good version you're still having the same modern core which the comp community straight up doesn't like. Changes to the maps is visually a change but in reality no more so than ripping the core gameplay of the modern games to bits to mirror what the comp community would prefer to play: 

  • Remove Sprint
  • Remove abilities
  • Remove clamber
  • Remove autos
  • Increase movement speed
  • Increase base damage 

I think you have to take the hit of being a small niche playlist if you want to differ that much from the core experience. There's no real trade-off in that 343 isn't going to sign off on it being the premiere ranked experience, much like H3 where as far as ranked playlists went MLG was less popular.

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Playing H3 is unbearable now, the hit registration is so bad it gives me suicidal thoughts. The hit registration of Reach-4-5 are so good that you never want to go back.

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Dumbing down the settings is not the way to do it, but making slight alterations is the way to do it, look at black ops 2, that was very similar to casual call of duty except some perks were changed, meanwhile in halo 2 and 3, settings and maps were completely different thus making it harder for the casual player to transfer.

 

343 intentions and plan was theoretically sound, sadly we have no way of determining the effectiveness of this strategy as we have no way of tracking the population. 

 

The fault is not they tried to bridge the gap, it is that the base settings were just shit. i.e auto's overpowered, shit aiming, poorly laid out maps, poor weapon spawn timers etc.

The more times I read through your post the more I agreed with it. It would be a lot better if the game of Halo 5 itself wasn't shit and the weapons weren't shit. Of course altering things like weapon spawns or spawn times is a small feet compared to altering the game completely. But to use your CoD reference, they ban perks, streaks, and weapons as well without changing the foundation of the game. I look at the bullshit gimmicks as our perks and streaks, and our weapons need to be tweaked too. Of course, this is all contingent upon 343 actually doing something about it. 

 

I agree that their idea to make it easier for a casual to support/play competitive Halo is a great one. To stick with my ananolgy from my previous post, things are definitely different from pro levels of traditional sports down to a more casual level like rec leagues or beer leagues, but the foundation of the games are unchanged. Like you said, there are tweaks. I don't understand (as I am sure most of TB doesn't) why 343 can't just make some tweaks, because whatever the hell they're doing is awful to watch (for me, personally) and much more importantly, it's awful to play.

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Played H3 and H2 last night with a team of 4 and had more fun in Halo then I have had in years. Would love to see more H3 tournaments. How cool would it be for MLG to hold a throw back event with H3 H2. Have seen a sudden spike in people and pros going back to H3 recently. 

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Dumbing down the settings is not the way to do it, but making slight alterations is the way to do it, look at black ops 2, that was very similar to casual call of duty except some perks were changed, meanwhile in halo 2 and 3, settings and maps were completely different thus making it harder for the casual player to transfer.

 

343 intentions and plan was theoretically sound, sadly we have no way of determining the effectiveness of this strategy as we have no way of tracking the population.

 

The fault is not they tried to bridge the gap, it is that the base settings were just shit. i.e auto's overpowered, shit aiming, poorly laid out maps, poor weapon spawn timers etc.

This approach to bridging the gap was absolutely and demonstrably flawed.

 

Its easy to say the settings are shit, but the harsh reality is that these settings are very close to what the casual community has been ENJOYING for the last 16 years. Casuals aren't complaining about autos, and power weapon spawns.

 

The approach to Bridging the gap shouldn't have been an attempt to force all parties to play the same settings. That is effectively a mandate to compromise and was always guarunteed to lead to the resentment we see now coming from on both sides.

 

The much better approach would have been to steer casuals towards competitively sound settings by providing ingame incentive to step out of their comfort zone.

 

For example, If we had a truly competive Team Arena, and req payouts across the game were boosted by your team arena rank, casuals would actually have any interest in contributing to the competitive skill pool, would willingly learn the merits of competitively sound settings, and they'd have an incentive to watch halo esports - if for nothing else, so they can get better.

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Just re-watched Snipedowns past broadcast of him playing halo 3.... Man that shit was so much fun to watch!, haven't enjoyed watching a stream like that in a while. It's good to see so many other people streaming customs.

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This approach to bridging the gap was absolutely and demonstrably flawed.

 

Its easy to say the settings are shit, but the harsh reality is that these settings are very close to what the casual community has been ENJOYING for the last 16 years. Casuals aren't complaining about autos, and power weapon spawns.

 

The approach to Bridging the gap shouldn't have been an attempt to force all parties to play the same settings. That is effectively a mandate to compromise and was always guarunteed to lead to the resentment we see now coming from on both sides.

 

The much better approach would have been to steer casuals towards competitively sound settings by providing ingame incentive to step out of their comfort zone.

 

For example, If we had a truly competive Team Arena, and req payouts across the game were boosted by your team arena rank, casuals would actually have any interest in contributing to the competitive skill pool, would willingly learn the merits of competitively sound settings, and they'd have an incentive to watch halo esports - if for nothing else, so they can get better.

Read @@Infinity post

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While we certainly have no idea how truly effective global settings are (too many factors), we do know that Team Arena is the second or third most popular ranked playlist in the game. Compared to MLG, which had such a minuscule piece of the H3 population, this is a major positive.

 

Purely from the perspective of maintaining a healthy population for the "tournament" playlist, universal settings is doing its job.

I don't like it, but I'll upvote it.

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Read @@Infinity post

I've had plenty of discussion with infinity. We agree on much of it, disagree on some details.

 

I think there needs to be a ton of care when it comes to guiding casuals to the light. - More care than a 'cold turkey' approach allows. You don't want to turn them off completely as they are the franchises money maker. Gotta remember that 'halo' means different things to different people, and the key to success has always been an ability to cater to everyone. I think Infinity and I disagree on whether or not that's still possible or worth it. I think not doing it is self-defeating. Personally, I think it's possible to cater to all, while simultaneous shifting everyone's affinity towards a competitively sound base.

 

I don't think Team Arenas "highish" population is a sign that universal settings has done its job... because it's job should be getting the majority of the 4v4 population playing competively sound halo ... and currently 0% are playing competively sound halo.

 

While we certainly have no idea how truly effective global settings are (too many factors), we do know that Team Arena is the second or third most popular ranked playlist in the game. Compared to MLG, which had such a minuscule piece of the H3 population, this is a major positive.

 

Purely from the perspective of maintaining a healthy population for the "tournament" playlist, universal settings is doing its job.

If mlg used team objective in h3 the tournament playlist, would we be arguing that approach would have "done the job" simply because more people would be playing on settings that are arbitrarily deemed competive? Because thats essentially what happened with team arena.

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Reading /r/Halo can be brutal. It seems the current demand is more focus on BTB. As well as this gem:

 

I also think it's funny how many people say they miss Halo 3. I remember when Halo 3 came out the MLG forums constantly shit on the game and wanted Halo 2 back.

People have been doing that with every release, when 2 came out they wanted CE when Reach came out they wanted 3. The only exception obviously being with Halo 4, nobody wants that shit back

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While we certainly have no idea how truly effective global settings are (too many factors), we do know that Team Arena is the second or third most popular ranked playlist in the game. Compared to MLG, which had such a minuscule piece of the H3 population, this is a major positive.

 

Purely from the perspective of maintaining a healthy population for the "tournament" playlist, universal settings is doing its job.

 

I don't care nearly as much about the population of the playlist as I do the impressiveness of the gameplay and the viewer counts of events.  We were selling out 200+ team events in minutes and getting similar viewership online as we are now back when the MLG playlist had considerably less people than other ranked lists and streaming was not nearly as accessible.

 

I would argue that from the perspective of maintaining a healthy population for the game as a whole, universal settings suck (for Halo).

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Reading /r/Halo can be brutal. It seems the current demand is more focus on BTB. As well as this gem:

 

I also think it's funny how many people say they miss Halo 3. I remember when Halo 3 came out the MLG forums constantly shit on the game and wanted Halo 2 back. 

It happened with every single halo except from Halo 4 to 5.

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Purely from the perspective of maintaining a healthy population for the "tournament" playlist, universal settings is doing its job.

I absolutely agree. If the objective was to keep the playlist alive and maintain high activity in the playlist; in my opinion, 343 did an incredible job to maintain the universal settings and keep Team Arena as close as possible to vanilla settings.

 

However, I disagree with the idea of having such settings to keep a competitive playlist "alive" or have high population. Not only the settings used in the competitive playlist can be of annoyance to a good amount of people, it can also bring a good amount of people that are not even interested in the competitive scene or trying to actually win the game. I had several games in the past where I carried the team, the team got completely destroyed and there was an even match; unfortunately, the even matches didnt happen as often. I feel like the skills of the players playing Team Arena isn't as high compared to previous MLG playlists.

 

Finally, just like @@Apoll0 said, the amount of people buying spectator tickets and the viewership in tournaments back then was quite high even though the competitive playlist wasn't that popular. I lean to have the best settings in Team Arena, even if they're super different from vanilla settings (:

 

Just woke up -- just my opinion!

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