Jump to content
CyReN

HCS Pro League Summer 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

Recommended Posts

22* People still like me for another 2 months and then it's all downhill

Didn't think you were old enough for blink 182 references lol

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Merging social and ranked via the hidden MMR actually sounds like a great idea.

 

But I don't think the number of playlists is the main issue. The real problem is that players can only search one playlist at a time.

 

In the future, they should make rank/social be a toggle and allow users to check off and prioritize which playlists they want to search in. This would decrease wait times AND improve matchmaking quality at the same time.

 

If someone only wants to play grifball, they should be able to just search grifball. But if they are open to HCS, slayer, skirmish, infection, and grifball, they just check all the appropriate boxes.

Or

 

Or

 

Or

 

They could make a game people actually want to play so the peak population doesn't drop to 10k and we don't even have to talk about this kind of stuff.

 

- Good, UNIQUE, true to roots Halo gameplay.

 

- Ranked lists with strict skill and party size MM

 

- Social lists with loose skill and party size MM

  • Upvote (+1) 6
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Ahh - apologies - I didn't make myself very clear; I wasn't talking about removing the HCS playlist.. (jeez, what you take me for?!? ;-) ) Instead of merging social and ranked, they look at which play types within the social and ranked silos could be merged - ranked Team Arena and Slayer, for example.

 

It's all good. I just don't 343 to get any ideas. HCS settings have actually led me to like the game - aiming issues and all. It feels so much better when I actually die to a skillful player instead of someone crouching with an automatic. 

Share this post


Link to post

Or

 

Or

 

Or

 

They could make a game people actually want to play so the peak population doesn't drop to 10k and we don't even have to talk about this kind of stuff.

 

- Good, UNIQUE, true to roots Halo gameplay.

 

- Ranked lists with strict skill and party size MM

 

- Social lists with loose skill and party size MM

Shouldn't be an OR thing.

 

They should make a game that people like AND merge social and ranked behind the scenes AND allow you to search multiple playlists at once.

 

If someone is tryharding in social- there's no reason the shouldn't contribute to the ranked skill pool.

 

There's no reason players should have to back out of Matchmaking just to change the gametypes they queue for.

 

Everything you mentioned can be done SIMULTANEOUSLY with a better engineered matchmaking systems. It would be good for 10k populations and 100k populations all the same.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

i dont understand why the season was set this way. instead of having 2 matches a week, why not have one a week and spread things out. a month of downtime seems excessive

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Or

 

Or

 

Or

 

They could make a game people actually want to play so the peak population doesn't drop to 10k and we don't even have to talk about this kind of stuff.

 

- Good, UNIQUE, true to roots Halo gameplay.

 

- Ranked lists with strict skill and party size MM

 

- Social lists with loose skill and party size MM

Yea I don't like the idea of mixing the ranked an social. Even with a hidden MMR looking at your individual skill. The mentality I have with social playlists is relaxed, just looking to have a fun time without really caring if I do poorly or well. If I was trying to play ranked and got 2 teammates that weren't trying as hard, it would negatively affect my MMR. I'd die more, get less kills, assists, ultimately leading to a worse individual performance. Kind of how scrims are vs tournament play, I want to try new things and not get too sweaty in social. 

 

Sure it'd make finding a match much quicker but the overall quality of the games would be worse depending on your teammates. If you have try hards on your team when you want to chill, you won't wanna hear the whining. 

 

Edit: Also tryharding in social should have no effect on your MMR. You are playing against people who are less serious or trying less on purpose. Why be rewarded for that? 

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

i dont understand why the season was set this way. instead of having 2 matches a week, why not have one a week and spread things out. a month of downtime seems excessive

ESL is not a thing that can be "understood".

  • Upvote (+1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

Yea I don't like the idea of mixing the ranked an social. Even with a hidden MMR looking at your individual skill. The mentality I have with social playlists is relaxed, just looking to have a fun time without really caring if I do poorly or well. If I was trying to play ranked and got 2 teammates that weren't trying as hard, it would negatively affect my MMR. I'd die more, get less kills, assists, ultimately leading to a worse individual performance. Kind of how scrims are vs tournament play, I want to try new things and not get too sweaty in social. 

 

Sure it'd make finding a match much quicker but the overall quality of the games would be worse depending on your teammates. If you have try hards on your team when you want to chill, you won't wanna hear the whining. 

arent the settings different between social and ranked as well? if i'm queuing social expecting autos but get thrown into a pistol match, im not gonna be happy

Share this post


Link to post

Yea I don't like the idea of mixing the ranked an social. Even with a hidden MMR looking at your individual skill. The mentality I have with social playlists is relaxed, just looking to have a fun time without really caring if I do poorly or well. If I was trying to play ranked and got 2 teammates that weren't trying as hard, it would negatively affect my MMR. I'd die more, get less kills, assists, ultimately leading to a worse individual performance. Kind of how scrims are vs tournament play, I want to try new things and not get too sweaty in social.

 

Sure it'd make finding a match much quicker but the overall quality of the games would be worse depending on your teammates. If you have try hards on your team when you want to chill, you won't wanna hear the whining.

The people with high MMRs in social aren't the ones who are just relaxing.

 

If you relax when playing in social, you wouldn't get matched with or against high skilled ranked players or tryhards.

 

arent the settings different between social and ranked as well? if i'm queuing social expecting autos but get thrown into a pistol match, im not gonna be happy

It wouldn't work with the playlist structure we have now. And some playlists would inherently have to be ranked or social only. Menke mentioned that in his post.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

The people with high MMRs in social aren't the ones who are just relaxing.

 

If you relax when playing in social, you wouldn't get matched with or against high skilled ranked players or tryhards.

 

Elaborate on what you are saying, cuz it sounds like you don't think people with a high ranked MMR ever go into social and mess around/relax/chill/not sweat.

Social is there to not care whether you do well or win even. If you start pairing those people with people who are tryharding, you will have a bad time.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Shouldn't be an OR thing.

 

They should make a game that people like AND merge social and ranked behind the scenes AND allow you to search multiple playlists at once.

 

If someone is tryharding in social- there's no reason the shouldn't contribute to the ranked skill pool.

 

There's no reason players should have to back out of Matchmaking just to change the gametypes they queue for.

 

Everything you mentioned can be done SIMULTANEOUSLY with a better engineered matchmaking systems. It would be good for 10k populations and 100k populations all the same.

I just don't see the point. Most people prefer specific searches opposed to mixed bag searches. How many people would even use a multi playlist search feature? At that point would it be worth the inevitable headaches that would occur due to 343's inherent technical limitations as a developer?

 

343 needs to employ the KISS theory to their game design. Unless we want to spend another couple years dealing with -1ths.

 

I also fail to see the advantages of merging ranked and social. So more people who are trying to relax and kick back in social will be forced to sweat their dicks off because they just so happen to possess functional thumbs? Fun times.

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

The people with high MMRs in social aren't the ones who are just relaxing.

 

If you relax when playing in social, you wouldn't get matched with or against high skilled ranked players or tryhards.

 

 

 

This is a really flawed assumption.

 

if you're a naturally talented Halo player you're still going to end up doing relatively well in social environment. Even if you're just kicking back relaxing going for 360 no scopes and using boltshots all game.

 

Social is just supposed to provide mixed bag type MM. Elite players are going to win most of their games in that type of environment.

 

People really need to stop trying to "fix" social. There was nothing wrong with it. it was BY FAR the most popular section of the Halo games that had it. Hell it still is. Warzone is the only place in H5 that uses true social MM and it is the most populated section of h5.

 

All evidence points towards the console shooter crowd preferring loose skill MM. COD uses it in most of it's lists(the highly populated ones atleast). Destiny switched from loose skill based CBMM to tight SBMM and their PvP population PLUMMETED. The playerbase always flocks to the looser skill MM sections of console shooters. Most people don't want to play 50-49 1.00 kd games every single game, forever. They'd rather go 4.00, 0.5, 1.00, 0.7, 2.50, 1.00, etc.

  • Upvote (+1) 9

Share this post


Link to post

Or

 

Or

 

Or

 

They could make a game people actually want to play so the peak population doesn't drop to 10k and we don't even have to talk about this kind of stuff.

 

- Good, UNIQUE, true to roots Halo gameplay.

 

- Ranked lists with strict skill and party size MM

 

- Social lists with Giants skill and party size MM

Doesnt sound like a good idea.

 

-343

Share this post


Link to post

Cratos's new team relegating Ronin would be the crowning moment of Halo 5

Whos is Cratos' new team?

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

I just don't see the point. Most people prefer specific searches opposed to mixed bag searches. How many people would even use a multi playlist search feature? At that point would it be worth the inevitable headaches that would occur due to 343's inherent technical limitations as a developer?

 

343 needs to employ the KISS theory to their game design. Unless we want to spend another couple years dealing with -1ths.

 

I also fail to see the advantages of merging ranked and social. So more people who are trying to relax and kick back in social will be forced to sweat their dicks off because they just so happen to possess functional thumbs? Fun times.

 

 

There is none, people who want to play ranked and people who want to play social have no business matching against each other. Also, consider guests (talking about halo 6 now), social has been historically the only place you can split screen on xbl, thi would obviously go completely against that.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Have they fixed servers yet? they were complete dog shit last night, took 10 minutes to find games in HCS

Share this post


Link to post

The mmr wouldn't change. You'd still be matching people your party should be matching

 

Pretty sure Josh said they're considering temporarily lowering a players effective MMR if they search socially, so it very well could.

Share this post


Link to post

Elaborate on what you are saying, cuz it sounds like you don't think people with a high ranked MMR ever go into social and mess around/relax/chill/not sweat.

Social is there to not care whether you do well or win even. If you start pairing those people with people who are tryharding, you will have a bad time.

Maybe I'm making assumptions that I shouldn't, but I imagine the system would give you an ranked MMR that is seperate from your social one or at least make your effective social MMR much lower. So if you play a social like a tryhard, you'll get opponents who do the same or are ranked. If you play social relaxed, you'll get other relaxed social players and/or ranked players who won't cause you to sweat.

 

Just about Everything can be solved with good math.

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

I just don't see the point. Most people prefer specific searches opposed to mixed bag searches. How many people would even use a multi playlist search feature? At that point would it be worth the inevitable headaches that would occur due to 343's inherent technical limitations as a developer?

 

343 needs to employ the KISS theory to their game design. Unless we want to spend another couple years dealing with -1ths.

 

I also fail to see the advantages of merging ranked and social. So more people who are trying to relax and kick back in social will be forced to sweat their dicks off because they just so happen to possess functional thumbs? Fun times.

If someone prefers specific searches they would simply just check the box of a single playlist.

 

Bam! Specific search.

 

Secondly, this has nothing to do with game design. It's a UX issue.

 

I honestly think a mixed bag search would be pretty popular. And if it isn't, no harm is done because how mixed the bag is totally up to the player.

 

Personally, i think it would be best to have just let people choose between a small handful of official playlists (maybe just 1, Team Arena) or alternatively choose a mixed bag of gametypes they want to play. So if I'm feeling HCS-y I hop into team arena. If I want to play a mix CTF, Slayer, Strongholds, and SWAT, i check those boxes instead. If I the stars align I could potentially be thrown into matches with people who are playing HCS (so long as the gametype drawn and MMRs matchup). If I choose social MMR would be relaxed and it would open up more possible gametypes that aren't fit for a ranked environment.

 

Let the computer handle the logistics. The user just tells the computer what they are interested want in doing, the matchmaking system locates scenarios where interests and skill/playstyle overlap and shit happens.

 

PS: Doesn't RL do this kind of thing? Decent proof of concept if so.

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

This is complete horseshit.

Has anyone here played overwatch.

The social playlist "quickplay" is the biggest cluster **** i have ever encountered. It is completely redundant, and just a place where people practice hereo's or where they go when they are banned. I have yet to find someone who enjoys overwatch and thinks quickplay is fun, because they know the game plays completely different there as it does in comp but has the EXACT SAME SETTINGS.

 

People saying they need a playlist to "relax in" I would all but gaurantee you are those tryhards who just play in groups because they don't want to loose their precious rank, and then will sit here on this forum and complain about the wait times when the games population is abysmal and has duplicates of virtually every fucking available playlist.

 

Edit:

 

The games experience is dictated by how you play it, if you want to be ranked highly take it seriously, if you don't load up a custom game or derank, your choice though, the game developers should not accommodate you on this, especially when the game's population is as low as halo 5's is.

  • Downvote (-1) 5

Share this post


Link to post

Maybe I'm making assumptions that I shouldn't, but I imagine the system would give you an ranked MMR that is seperate from your social one or at least make your effective social MMR much lower. So if you play a social like a tryhard, you'll get opponents who do the same or are ranked. If you play social relaxed, you'll get other relaxed social players and/or ranked players who won't cause you to sweat.

 

Just about Everything can be solved with good math.

You are trying to calculate math that can't be done. People in social can try to win one match then try to only melee people the next. Or try to stick as many people as possible another time. Then they try and win after that. It makes no sense to have a machine try and determine if you are a try hard social vs ranked vs regular social, game to game.

 

One thing is certain, if you choose ranked, they assume you are going to try hard. Easy math right there. You are trying to use a bad method to make up for the population being low in the game. Fix the population issue first then there is no problem. 

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

This is complete horseshit.

Has anyone here played overwatch.

The social playlist "quickplay" is the biggest cluster **** i have ever encountered. It is completely redundant, and just a place where people practice hereo's or where they go when they are banned. I have yet to find someone who enjoys overwatch and thinks quickplay is fun, because they know the game plays completely different there as it does in comp but has the EXACT SAME SETTINGS.

 

People saying they need a playlist to "relax in" I would all but gaurantee you are those tryhards who just play in groups because they don't want to loose their precious rank, and then will sit here on this forum and complain about the wait times when the games population is abysmal and has duplicates of virtually every fucking available playlist.

Did you never play H3?

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Did you never play H3?

halo 3 had a population able to sustain 2 playlists, and I still would argue that the over did the ranked playlist in that game.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.