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HCS Pro League Summer 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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No open structure means players don't want to play if they're not on a pro team already. There is no incentive

 

From ESL regarding Dreamhack.

 

http://pro.eslgaming.com/halo/proleague/news/the-halo-championship-series-pro-league-returns-with-two-more-season-in-2017/

 

 

The North American Finals will see the top six HCS Pro League regular season teams face off again the best two teams from the Open Bracket Relegation. Any full team to show up at DreamHack with 3-day visitor passes can enter the Friday and Saturday open tournament for a chance to compete in the next season of the HCS Pro League and even for a shot at the championship title. The bottom two HCS Pro League teams will need to prove themselves in that same bracket and fight for a spot in the Sunday finals!

 

I suppose for a pro league that has felt relatively exclusive in the past two seasons, this isn't a bad format.  An open bracket funneling the top 2 teams into the champ bracket for both a shot at that season's finals as well as inclusion into the next season's pro league provides decent incentive.  However, I'd rather just have more frequent open events where there is no exclusive champ bracket.  Not that it is likely to ever happen but I appreciate the possibility of the top 8 in a bracket being filled out by 'am' teams.  Each team has to prove themselves every single lan.

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Anyone else patiently waiting for the main topic of discussion to be team changes and not all these other issues? So exhausting.

Yep. The "restrict all HCS discussion to a single thread" model should have died with the MLG forums.

 

Such a huge sacrifice in forum accessibility that seemingly happens solely to boost the HCS thread's view and post count stats. Want to talk about the actual HCS while the thread is circlejerking about how terrible everything is? Tough shit, wait your turn. Except that goes entirely against how forums should work.

 

Inb4 snarky mod reply about how there's nothing to talk about in HCS at the moment as if that's even remotely the point

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So are the Dreamhack events likely to be the only open events around the pro league seasons?  Its still relatively early but would be great to get more of an idea of how many live events there will be.

 

Also has anyone heard anything regarding EU pro league/open events?  

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So are the Dreamhack events likely to be the only open events around the pro league seasons? Its still relatively early but would be great to get more of an idea of how many live events there will be.

 

Also has anyone heard anything regarding EU pro league/open events?

since finals are set, there's not much time for pro league and other LANs. So it's likely only going to be one other LAN (maybe 2 at best) each season. Not the format we are hoping for

 

Edit: Also haven't heard anything about EU. Hopefully they get open LANs. Only having pro league LANs kill AM scenes

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I shouldn't have used the word fixed. It helps a lot but does not get rid of it entirely!

Could it just be the pool of players you can find is bigger as your still floating around the ranks completely fresh, so you have a better chance to join a better connection?

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Ninja maintaining ~2500 viewers a couple hours after switching to halo, encouraging to see

 

I don't know if this is really encouraging. A lot of people that stay to watch streamers watch for the person, not the game. Sure, people love him playing H1Z1 because ith as a much larger audience, but I doubt that the 2500 viewers were there because they like Halo that much. I'd guess it's because they like Ninja as a streamer. 

 

Ask any pro or talent, these weekends are exhausting and I'm not even gonna talk about my month. I understand why every one is angry. I'm was only addressing one person who was personally coming after me and look what that did lol. I think a lot of good things will come out of all this and I was still excited for the future of halo months ago and I still am.

 

This is a serious question for you and any other guys from the old days - do you ever just look at the game the pros are playing now, or the last couple, and just shake your head a little bit and wonder where real Halo went?

 

 

 

 

 

No open structure means players don't want to play if they're not on a pro team already. There is no incentive

 

It's really quite pathetic. Look at any other esport there are a ton of options open for EVERYONE to compete. There are issues with this game's population count online obviously, but there is no competitive online ladder system - with anything else there are a bunch of leagues or competitive platforms. Look at CS:GO with ESEA, CEVO, and other tiny tournaments for amateurs. On top of it being a great way for amateurs to compete for the sake of competing, it also doubles as a way to truly break out into the scene if you perform well enough. Look at Call of Duty where you can grind the GB and UMG ladders. I understand that it's an MLG thing and that's clearly a huge issue, but why hasn't another ladder service cropped up for Halo? I'm not putting that on TB or anyone here, it's just a question. Our amateur scene sucks because not only is there not much incentive for people to try and get to the pro level if you're not already on the cusp, but there's no "casual competitive" scene either. When I say casually competitve, I mean something like CEVO or ESEA or GB/UMG ladders/tournaments. Of course we have the TB tournaments, but they're less frequent than some of those things I mentioned. I personally think that a major issue is the game itself is so bad that people really just don't want to play it. I'd venture to guess most of the pros are competing and treating it as a job, not because they truly love Halo 5.

 

 

@@Cursed Lemon - I am happy Day 1 is getting farther and father away so this game's end of life is getting closer and closer. This is horrendous. 

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They tried to imply that Halo 5 was the most successful Halo launch of all time by including all Halo-related packaging in their sales numbers. So every Master Chief controller or Halo XBone that was sold was subtly shoved into the same pile of Halo 5 copies.

 

Then there was the vague "H5 has the best player retention since Halo 3." Which very well may be true, but it was definitely an attempt to manipulate by comparing H5 favorably to the most successful Halo game.

 

Wouldn't be surprised if there have been more viewer shenanigans as well, but I don't know that for sure.

 

Oh I remember those now, thanks.

 

There was def others that I hope other people remember and could possibility link to :)

 

Wasn't there some random as shit statistic of most popular playlist or something between some random dates or something?

 

And I don't think this is included in this but what was the whole 11% (or was it 1%) poll statistic ppl on here meme about? Wasn't it some email survey thing?

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Yeah, it is. And this post made me google some old articles about "Halos future as an esport". 343 was so keen to bring up the subject in every interview from 2013 and forward. Three quotes was just mindblowing. What happened?

 

 

Frank O´Connor:

 

"I think it's always, especially when you're talking about emergent competitive activity, it's always better to let the community take some lead in defining what game modes that they're interested in, and defining what kind of tournament framework works best for them."

 

"I'd love to work with MLG again in the future, and there's nothing actually preventing that."

 

"At the same time, we want to take the core community much more seriously. Halo is lucky in a way that those things don't necessarily conflict with each other. We're able to create a vision and a version of the game on the far-end of the skill spectrum for pro players that works beautifully."

 

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/frank-oconnor-on-the-future-of-competitive-halo/1100-6414160/

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Yeah, it is. And this post made me google some old articles about "Halos future as an esport". 343 was so keen to bring up the subject in every interview from 2013 and forward. Two quotes was just mindblowing. What happened?

 

 

Frank O´Connor:

 

"I think it's always, especially when you're talking about emergent competitive activity, it's always better to let the community take some lead in defining what game modes that they're interested in, and defining what kind of tournament framework works best for them."

 

"I'd love to work with MLG again in the future, and there's nothing actually preventing that."

 

"At the same time, we want to take the core community much more seriously. Halo is lucky in a way that those things don't necessarily conflict with each other. We're able to create a vision and a version of the game on the far-end of the skill spectrum for pro players that works beautifully."

 

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/frank-oconnor-on-the-future-of-competitive-halo/1100-6414160/

Literally, where did everything go so wrong?

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For all we know heavy aim could be due to 343's dedicated servers not being reset with any regularity. I'm pretty sure every major FPS has server maintenance weekly, Overwatch, Battlefield, Destiny. They shutdown their servers for a reason. As far as I know H5 doesn't do this. Still doubt it would fix things, but that week or so of good servers during the update to "fix" heavy aim was nice. 

 

I tried the smurf thing, but I still had a heavy aim in the first game. Only difference was I squashed some silver/gold kids inflated my stats, and made my accuracy higher due to them running in straight lines, not strafing. 

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Actually, I decided just recently that even trying to talk to you, even privately, would do nothing but potentially hurt me.

 

There is a fine line between speaking out to force change, 'good,' and harassing someone, constantly tagging them in posts. and just trying to get attention by posting someone's DM. I want the best for Halo, I've been involved since 2005 in almost every capacity.

 

I've been taking a lot of heat over the last few weeks, some warranted and other COMPLETELY out of my control or even having anything to actually do with me.

 

I cannot interpret what you did as anything other than seeking attention. Yes, my message was double sided, but I still reached out to you. Your response was very clear on how you feel. You don't actually want to talk to me, you just want everyone to see you trying to.

 

If you think I'm harassing you on Twitter I'm sorry man, I understand you've had a rough month and things definitely feel like they're dogpiling on you right now, but I saved your ass. 

 

Getting publicity and causing a spectacle about an issue, that really wasn't an "issue," but causing enough of a stir to force a rule change before worlds, before a certain someone had a chance to build a case against you.

 

You're in the clear now man, you're welcome, you don't have to worry about it, you can also call off dumb and dumber in my tweets trying to make me feel guilty for wanting to get an education and trying to come at me like the whole reason I do any of this shit is because I want a casting job. I would literally have to be the dumbest person in the world to think that the way to a casting job is to eviscerate both companies capable of my employment. 

 

And who gives a fuck if it was "attention seeking," that attention seeking saved your ass and that attention seeking forced 343 Industries to address several issues within the HCS, get over it. I got more publicity for Halo with one tweet than your company and 343 Industries have, combined. 

 

Maybe you're just jealous that I'm doing a better job at your job without even having your job. 

 

Either way I hope you stop being depressed or whatever and grow some thicker skin so you can be happy again and you and the entire pro scene can stop obsessing over one "irrelevant" full time student with three thousand Twitter followers. 

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If we really want to build an AM scene, why don't they get paid maybe 1k per team for making champ bracket. The bulk of the money would still be in the champ bracket but AMs would also get some money for playing better than most other AMs. I always found it weird that this doesn't happen. Cause AMs that make it to champ bracket but get 9th get paid nothing. Just my thoughts while we have nothing to talk about

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That shit pisses me off. 343 in a nutshell. Change for the sake of change.

 

I will never understand the "well we HAVE to change something"

I think about all the CS maps that have been in competitive play FOREVER and players are still finding new ways to play them.  Make the gameplay and guns deep and balanced, and players will continually find ways to innovate on their own.  You don't need to force the issue.

 

Dare I say "lack of population" 

 

Yes, Gears4 has LAN.  you can even pause the game on LAN. I've played in LAN twice again the devs. great group of ppl.

 

Yeah, that feature is sweet.  It can save full replays if someone happens to DC or have a controller issue or whatever.  That kind of detail really shows they were committed to LAN for a long time, not that they tacked it on at the last minute

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So if pro league starts in a month I assume we aren't getting updated settings unless they happen very soon.

 

Pros need time to practice on new setting before the league starts.

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Dude,

We can't afford anything anymore, 

The game is a year and a half old,

Our player base is shrinking by the week,

WE STILL HAVE HEAVY AIM - in an fps game - like how bad does a fps game have to be to mess up aiming

Our competitive settings aren't competitive 

We have a broken spectator mode

Our funding is declining,

We have player uproar

We have community uproar - (although nothing new there)

We have org uproar - hec'z vlog and conor from instinct.

We have personalities like legion weighing in.

We have a political power struggle between T/O's and 343 i.e we do not have mlg despite their interest.

Our am scence is dying 

Our pro's are considering leaving 

We were the laughing stock of e-sports at the weekend.

 

And yet we have heard nothing ............

wait which pros are considering leaving? If you mean Huke has he expressed any intent to jump back to CoD aside from doing 8s with Formal?

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When some of the amateurs are talking about switching games then you know Halo is practically dead except to the 32 players of pro league.

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It's strange that pretty much all the problems are solved if Quinn get's fired. Or maybe he can get promoted to the same role in the next CoD, they can have their fair share of the "innovation" he brings.

 

Yeah, he seems to be the source of problems for the game.

 

And the fact that 343 couldn't get aiming right in an FPS is very telling. What's weird is that Halo 4 felt perfect to shoot. Still don't know what the fuck they did with Halo 5.

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Why was Elamite here  again ? I didn't see him discuss anything HCS related and our issues with HCS itself lie with 343i and those who make decisions in ESL. 

 

Anyway, Destiny 2 reveal today, hype is real. At least I know Bungie doesnt give a flying fuck about e-sports so I get to play their game with that  type of mentality( casual/friendly and just for fun).

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If we really want to build an AM scene, why don't they get paid maybe 1k per team for making champ bracket. The bulk of the money would still be in the champ bracket but AMs would also get some money for playing better than most other AMs. I always found it weird that this doesn't happen. Cause AMs that make it to champ bracket but get 9th get paid nothing. Just my thoughts while we have nothing to talk about

I'm sure they'd love to have an AM scene. But 343 has no idea how to build an AM scene. And the expert TO that they contracted to run the league has no idea how to build an AM scene.

 

We had an ESL rep come in here and argue that having Pro and AMs play together in open events would impede AMs ability to make it Pro. Seriously, that happened. And these are the guys 343 decided to hand over the keys to.

 

The blind are leading the blind.

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