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HCS Pro League Summer 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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It's not something to envy, it's something to admire. Grass roots scenes, especially fighting games did and continue to do their dirty work to play games they know they want to play. It's organic, international and most importantly sustainable.

 

Halo could have easily had that, I mean the CE guys are still going strong but there's just little interest in anything outside of chasing the mainstream dream.

Admire was 100% the word I was looking for. Late night posting always breeds some failure.

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I have popped into the event stream two times this weekend for a total of about 2 minutes. First there was audio problems and the second time Goldenboy was apologizing for a delay. Glad I havent bothered watching any more. I'll be spending the rest of the day celebrating mothers day with my wife and kids. Fuck halo.

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I have popped into the event stream two times this weekend for a total of about 2 minutes. First there was audio problems and the second time Goldenboy was apologizing for a delay. Glad I havent bothered watching any more. I'll be spending the rest of the day celebrating mothers day with my wife and kids. Fuck halo.

I would hope that you would have done that even if it was the greatest halo stream of all time though........

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Refuse to watch today, I've watched last few days and production has been awful.

 

They will only listen to view numbers so I hope they don't even break 10k today, until Dreamhack I'm done.

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I know I made a bet about playing H5 if nv get top 3 but fuck that so neg this post

 

Also halo is dead 343 sucks

I expected nothing less from you.

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Multiple CS tourneys (HTC 2v2 and Subaru online invitational) as well. 

I said it a few days ago. Whoever plans the dates for events picks the worst days. It's not just that it's Mother's Day which I mean it's not a major holiday, but people do go out for dinner or brunch or whatever. Point is, there are so many other options for people who like video games and esports 98% of the time when there is a Halo tournament going on. They plan them on days/weekends when there are large scale and popular events/tournaments going on for other games that Halo flat out just cannot compete with. CWL is a 4 team event, but it's a LAN tournament for the GPL, not to mention Optic is there this weekend. I doubt very highly a lot of their call of duty fans are going to open up a stream for CoD and also for Halo, especially when their Halo team is so dominant, the production has been dumpster juice, and generally Halo 5 is abysmal to watch. Throw in CS tournaments which is a way better FPS game and much more competitive? Forget about it. The stream is going to have very low viewership today.

 

I just want Halo to be something that I am always looking to watch / be involved with again.

You and me both buddy. I've been more active (still not very) these last couple of months, but it's so hard to try and get active and involved when you hate everything about the product and its corresponding viewing experience. I can't even watch a Halo 5 stream for 10 minutes without getting bored to tears or chased away by shit production. I wish the game was more enjoyable, then I could suffer through shit production to watch the actual games, but I can't get behind either of them. Definitely a personal preference on the game, but for someone who doesn't love the game, the production is pathetic and chases me away from even supporting Halo which is basically the main reason I even play video games. For reference, I think IW sucks balls, but I'll watch the CWL because of production and they know how to build up on stories and plays and whatnot. 

 

Im praying Destiny 2 is more balanced and complete than 1 with a solid esports scene. I'll jump ship if it is. At this point of almost 2 years, nothing but settings/brackets have improved.

Here's to hoping. I'd love another game to play besides CS and PUBG.

 

I am envious of the Melee community. Fought hard against their developers oppression towards their competitive community and still have one of the biggest competitive titles...16 years after release.

 

I wonder what it would of been like to just stick with H2/H3 for a few more years.

 

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Back in the day, MLG was the grassroots Halo scene. They were trying to establish themselves and using Halo tournaments to do it. It definitely helped they were building scenes for SC, GoW, Halo, and Call of Duty almost all simultaneously. Those tournaments were a blast to watch. Like you said though, if the developer doesn't support the scene (Bungie) or their support is what's destroying the scene (343) then the only logical solution is to move outside of the system and start doing it yourself. I actually put a bit of thought into it, but it would be really amazing if TB started to really cultivate a scene for themselves outside of the Astro sponsored tournaments. I know that involves a ton of work from the Staff here, which is tough obviously, but it would be amazing to see. It would give the non-pros a chance to compete even more as well as something additional to watch. Just a thought there - maybe TB could set up their own league system? I know there are also supposed to be some Amateur leagues or something (haven't quite kept up on that honestly) and the FPL, but it would be really cool to see a TB league and people could get really invested in that. It would almost be like the farm team system that CS has where organizations can have a team in there as a minor league team to farm players from.

 

I bet you at least a few people over at MLG already have some thoughts on tweaking Halo5 competitive play...perhaps even some testing.

I'll bet some of their thoughts on tweaking Halo 5 would be to get rid of the game entirely. I would honestly welcome the thought of going back to Halo 3 on 360s only just so we could have legitimate LAN tournaments. Although, MLG has a lot of big things going on between Call of Duty and Gears, not to mention possibly coming back as a CSGO event at some point. I don't think they need the cancer that is competitive Halo 5 on their backs at the moment, no matter how good their tournament would be. 

 

It's not something to envy, it's something to admire. Grass roots scenes, especially fighting games did and continue to do their dirty work to play games they know they want to play. It's organic, international and most importantly sustainable.

 

Halo could have easily had that, I mean the CE guys are still going strong but there's just little interest in anything outside of chasing the mainstream dream.

Can't say it any better than this. The prizing would have to be crowdfunded, but hey, people would donate and companies would probably donate (maybe even MLG?). Not that it is comparable in any way, but The International gets a crowdfunding boost of literally millions of dollars in prize money every year between in-game microtransactions and donations (I think on the donations, need a fact check there though).

 

I know I made a bet about playing H5 if nv get top 3 but fuck that so neg this post

 

Also halo is dead 343 sucks

The competitive community for Halo is the only part that is alive right now. It's a smaller community in comparison to the overall Halo community, but this game and scene are on life support, and the people responsible for the "pull the plug decisions" are actively in the process of yanking the plug out of the wall. 343 is a cancer to the Halo community both in game production and the entirety of their competitive scene.

 

EDIT:: Everyone who says that Dreamhack is going to be the big event is going to have to make the distinction that the event isn't strictly Halo. Spectators aren't going (for the most part) to only watch Halo. They're going to go there because Halo is there, but there is a lot of other things there as well to enjoy. There's nothing wrong with that either, but you can't really compare the event to other Halo only events. I don't expect viewership to drastically increase just because it's at Dreamhack, because people who aren't Halo fans aren't suddenly going to be interested in it because it's on the Dreamhack channel.

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It's not something to envy, it's something to admire. Grass roots scenes, especially fighting games did and continue to do their dirty work to play games they know they want to play. It's organic, international and most importantly sustainable.

 

Halo could have easily had that, I mean the CE guys are still going strong but there's just little interest in anything outside of chasing the mainstream dream.

 

Halo's competitive community at large has always had pretty... flexible standards when it comes to always needing to play the newest Halo game, even if it's awful. It's honestly pretty strange to me. People go out of their way to craft several revisions of custom settings or mods that take out most of the shit added in the latest game and make it play much more like the games that already exist that they already enjoyed but no longer play because something newer came out. Just look at how much went into V7 MLG in Reach, settings which more-or-less made Reach play as much like H2/H3 as possible, even going so far as to use a bunch of forge remakes of maps from those games. I say this as someone who was heavily involved with the "Evolved Settings" for H5.

 

​I get why it's happened with H5 to a point, what with Microsoft throwing a bunch of money at the "HCS," but nothing was stopping Halo's competitive community from saying "Fuck this game. It's garbage." when Bungie didn't care at all about Halo's competitive scene or when Halo 4 was... Halo 4. It was just convenient to play the latest thing instead and that's what has happened every time.

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I have popped into the event stream two times this weekend for a total of about 2 minutes. First there was audio problems and the second time Goldenboy was apologizing for a delay. Glad I havent bothered watching any more. I'll be spending the rest of the day celebrating mothers day with my wife and kids. Fuck halo.

 

I popped in once this weekend, and I saw NV and OS sleeping on stage then GoldenBoy popped up. I don't know what he said because I had the stream muted, and then the stream went off. So I stopped watching.

 

Just going through the forums and reading all the things going wrong really doesn't surprise me anymore. This just has been the trend of Halo LANs and now I just expect it at this point. I finally have some free time today to watch the last of the matches and hope things run smoothly.

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This is the big one for me.

 

When I worked events for MLG, they covered hotel, flight, and catered meals for the event weekend and if you had costs from travel, you could expense those out and get reimbursed.  And then they paid a paycheck for the weekend ON TOP OF THAT.

 

When IGN started doing their IPL events, I had to turn down a position because they were seeking volunteers.  MLG spoiled me.

Pretty much the difference between people who want to make something and people who want to take something.

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Pretty much the difference between people who want to make something and people who want to take something.

 

Some people have bills to pay, mate.

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I don't really understand the feeling of hate and disgust. I can understand disappoint, but everyone spewing hate towards the production team just needs to have a cold one and chill. 

 

UMG looks like it is run on a shoestring, the fact that they rented out this venue is an amazing accomplishment. Sure production has sucked, but so has Halo 5. There is no money or incentive to hire a competent crew or enough viewers to feel the pressure to succeed. As a manager with about 200 employees underneath me this idea seems glaringly obvious. Good help is hard to find and if you want it, you have to pay for it. The people on the ground at these events (not the head guys, the kids actually running the wires and firing up the laptops) are probably just experienced enough to run the sound board at the 1st Baptist Church down the street. This is not being hateful, just realistic for a company in the rear end of an emerging market.

 

You know the charity Halo amateur streams we've had? We don't freak out about their production quality because we have the proper expectation. I think our expectations should always be there until proven otherwise. Halo 5 does not have the views, player base and thus the money for a 3rd party to ever spend the money or give the time of day to put on a show. Some people will hold these tournaments, but basically only for the hell of it. Anyone in business will understand you have clients/customers you would bend over backwards for and then others who you could really care less if they leave you or not. Halo 5 must be the latter for these companies because the production quality screams this - Even companies like ESL who have the resources obviously but don't spend too much of them on Halo but instead light the world on fire for CS Go.

 

I say all this because I don't understand the venom I read. I understand the constructive criticism, keep it up if someone wants to listen that's awesome and UMG obviously needs it. However, coming on here and posting a simple fuck you just builds resentment and no one is going to respond to that. 

 

And shout out to the Simms and all the casters. They are the exceptions of people who do care and try their hardest and I am willing to bet get very little in return.

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Some people have bills to pay, mate.

Think you misunderstood lol. I meant that in relation to MLG paying versus others asking for free labor

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Think you misunderstood lol. I meant that in relation to MLG paying versus others asking for free labor

 

Oh, right.

 

With your wording it seemed like you were responding to me wanting to be paid (get something) vs just wanting to help (make something).

 

Carry on.

my wayward son

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I bring this up because the similarities I see with the Halo scene & Microsoft as a whole are not just coincidence. I can't say for sure what's going on, but it's entirely possible that Microsoft really doesn't care that much about competitive video games in general so they're just giving 343 the shaft because so what if competitive Halo dies (in their mind). 

 

 

oh for sure, the reason that the higher-level Microsoft manager doesn't care about the HCS failing may just be = they literally don't care and are phoning in the support, doing the bare minimum so they can quietly shutter the "Halo esports" thing by H6

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Halo at end of hwc 2016 was actually looking like a growing esport that's why people are upset.

 

This was the biggest open Halo event in a long time, 75k prize pool, don't downplay expectations vs reality, the reality is 3v4i hired the wrong company.

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There remains 4 teams left in the tournament. This means there is going to be 4 more pro teams and a bunch of top AM's potentially running around. @@TheSimms or anybody for the matter why not pull: Ace, Heinz, Towey, Ryanoob, or any pro who is decent on camera into the commentary booth or the analyst boot and talk halo with them?

 

They know infinitely more than we do, and can really bring some inside analysis into the 4 remaining teams this weekend. They don't need to do entire series just bring them in for a game or a segment in the analysis booth.

 

Do something with pros that aren't even playing today

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I honestly have a real problem with TOs/343/anyone requesting people work without pay. If they're in a situation where they cannot pay employees they have no business running tournaments for anyone. I understand if free help is offered but it shouldn't be requested. At best that leads to a situation where the passionate people put it on their resume and leave forever.

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I still cant get over the fact that oxygen and splyce will have to compete again for the last pro league spot in an online tourney despite os being top 6 and splyce top 4 and still going

Each tournament I support more and more the guys from Splyce. I started watching competitive Halo when bubu started playing, so I like to cheer for this guy. Now imagine if they don't perform in the lcq and lose the spot that they deserve, I think I'll not watch the pro league then.

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This is the big one for me.

 

When I worked events for MLG, they covered hotel, flight, and catered meals for the event weekend and if you had costs from travel, you could expense those out and get reimbursed. And then they paid a paycheck for the weekend ON TOP OF THAT.

 

When IGN started doing their IPL events, I had to turn down a position because they were seeking volunteers. MLG spoiled me.

Major League Gaming reimbursed and paid their refs too, I'd be fucking embarrassed to be in charge of UMG and be begging for volunteers the week before the event.

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Sometimes I wonder if MLG set the bar too high for so long that we are just being unrealistic...then you realize prizing is approaching 3 million? Something not adding up here, I don't fault the casters or volunteers either. This is simply a management issue from TO / 343i.

 

Also used to work MLG events back in the day, great times and memories. Ironically I was doing stats in 2010...which is still somewhat of an issue with the HCS still. MLG system was great for it then, can't see why it can't be replicated now.

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Sometimes I wonder if MLG set the bar too high for so long that we are just being unrealistic...then you realize prizing is approaching 3 million? Something not adding up here, I don't fault the casters or volunteers either. This is simply a management issue from TO / 343i.

 

Also used to work MLG events back in the day, great times and memories. Ironically I was doing stats in 2010...which is still somewhat of an issue with the HCS.

i have $4,985,704 total recorded in my H5-H2A HCS earnings tracker, so ~$5M after this weekend

 

that's just prize money too...

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