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HCS Pro League Summer 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Now we're trying to remove Slayer? This is the only tolerable game type in solo HCS Preview, please do not remove it.

 

This is fucking Halo, everything else is secondary to Slayer.

 

EDIT: if you downvote at least give an rgument why you'd rather play Strongholds, an objectively worse version of KOTH, or the worst iteration of CTF in any Halo game?

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Yeah but none of those are ARENA shooters.  Quake is, and its only competitive gametype is Slayer.

 

...oh, wait...that's strictly 1v1

 

Thinking about it, Quake is the only arena shooter left besides Halo. Really looking forward to what Quake Champions will bring to the table. 

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Thinking about it, Quake is the only arena shooter left besides Halo. Really looking forward to what Quake Champions will bring to the table. 

It's going to bring all the memorable characters back and give them unique starting weapons and abilities!

 

So in other words, #NotMyQuake

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Agreed i think Slayer should really only be games 4/7 in a series. I'm sorry strongholds is a terrible gametype. Could be fun if they placed the hills better and increased the respawn timer. Eden SH = Aids, Empire is really only good because they are spread out and you cant just sprint right to them. KOTH and oddball i miss you so much :(

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It's going to bring all the memorable characters back and give them unique starting weapons and abilities!

 

So in other words, #NotMyQuake

Unlike halo,quake and the entire arena genre has been dying so it needs change. Multiple high quality arena shooter games like reflex,and ut have either been released or are in ea.Every single one of these new arena shooters has a population of less than 200 people.The highest population is ql with 700-800 people.I hate what Bethesda is doing but I completely understand it.

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It's going to bring all the memorable characters back and give them unique starting weapons and abilities!

 

So in other words, #NotMyQuake

 

Unlike halo,quake and the entire arena genre has been dying so it needs change. Multiple high quality arena shooter games like reflex,and ut have either been released or are in ea.Every single one of these new arena shooters has a population of less than 200 people.The highest population is ql with 700-800 people.I hate what Bethesda is doing but I completely understand it.

Pretty much this unfortunately. I agree champions are dumb, but that's what the people like. 

I miss simpler times when games were fun. 

The good old days. 

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One of the coolest competitive modes I've ever played in an FPS is Elite from a game called Shootmania (hugely underrated PC FPS). It's an asymmetric round based mode where the attackers have to either capture a point or take out the defenders. The defenders have to either kill the attacker or stop them from capturing the point for a minute (each player only has one life). The catch is that it's 3 defenders vs 1 attacker, the attacker has an instagib laser and the defenders have a slow firing rocket launcher which requires 3 hits to kill. It's fucking intense and amazing, especially when playing as the lone attacker with you're teammates spectating.

 

Wouldn't work in Halo though, teamshot is too important. That said I'd be interested to see if an asymmetric mode could work in competitive Halo.

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Now we're trying to remove Slayer? This is the only tolerable game type in solo HCS Preview, please do not remove it.

 

This is fucking Halo, everything else is secondary to Slayer.

 

EDIT: if you downvote at least give an rgument why you'd rather play Strongholds, an objectively worse version of KOTH, or the worst iteration of CTF in any Halo game?

How is it objectively better? Strongholds does a better job of forcing constant rotational gameplay while maintaining spawn control

 

Worst iteration of CTF? Not when H4 exists

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Worst iteration of CTF? Not when H4 exists

I think we can all agree fuck everything about Halo4, it still doesn't make it anywhere near serviceable. Off the top of my head I can't think of a single comp CTF gametype from any of the past games (discounting H4) that is worse to play or watch than any of those in comp H5.

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I think we can all agree fuck everything about Halo4, it still doesn't make it anywhere near serviceable. Off the top of my head I can't think of a single comp CTF gametype from any of the past games (discounting H4) that is worse to play or watch than any of those in comp H5.

Granted. However, CTF is still probably my favorite gametype. I just like running flags lol

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How is it objectively better? Strongholds does a better job of forcing constant rotational gameplay while maintaining spawn control

 

Worst iteration of CTF? Not when H4 exists

Why is "constant rotational gameplay" good? By that definition CTF is bad then?

 

For one thing the defender's advantage is ridiculous in Strongholds due to the way trades work when a Stronghold is contested. Also the fact that you need to be standing in a point for so long before gaining points also puts the team trying to gain control at a strong disadvantage. Strongholds forces so many dumb all in plays very frequently in comparison to KOTH, and its precisely because you need to have bad position for a minimum amount of time before you even have a CHANCE at getting points. It results in a game mode that is way more reliant on how the spawns work. You should ask yourself why it is better for most people playing the game, and the common experience in matchmaking is something fucking random and not fun to play, whereas KOTH or Crazy KOTH had very clear goals and was much less reliant on "constant rotational gameplay" which is entirely meaningless and not a goal we should have.

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Why is "constant rotational gameplay" good? By that definition CTF is bad then?

 

For one thing the defender's advantage is ridiculous in Strongholds due to the way trades work when a Stronghold is contested. Also the fact that you need to be standing in a point for so long before gaining points also puts the team trying to gain control at a strong disadvantage. Strongholds forces so many dumb all in plays very frequently in comparison to KOTH, and its precisely because you need to have bad position for a minimum amount of time before you even have a CHANCE at getting points. It results in a game mode that is way more reliant on how the spawns work. You should ask yourself why it is better for most people playing the game, and the common experience in matchmaking is something fucking random and not fun to play, whereas KOTH or Crazy KOTH had very clear goals and was much less reliant on "constant rotational gameplay" which is entirely meaningless and not a goal we should have.

Right, because the MM experience of KotH was more than randoms just nading and running into the hill.

 

How is relying on how spawns work a bad thing? Shit, isn't that every mode? You need to know where a team is spawning in order to not run a flag directly to them in CTF. You have to know where a team is spawning in slayer too. 

 

By constant rotational gameplay, I meant that essentially, a team has to spread themselves out in order to maintain map control. Therefore, a team's slaying ability must make up for the fact that they're spread rather thinly. Due to this, it makes setups easier to break despite the capture times.

 

Also, let's not pretend like KotH wasn't the scrappiest mode in Halo. I love it and want it back to, but objectivity is key.

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Right, because the MM experience of KotH was more than randoms just nading and running into the hill.

 

How is relying on how spawns work a bad thing? Shit, isn't that every mode? You need to know where a team is spawning in order to not run a flag directly to them in CTF. You have to know where a team is spawning in slayer too. 

 

By constant rotational gameplay, I meant that essentially, a team has to spread themselves out in order to maintain map control. Therefore, a team's slaying ability must make up for the fact that they're spread rather thinly. Due to this, it makes setups easier to break despite the capture times.

 

Also, let's not pretend like KotH wasn't the scrappiest mode in Halo. I love it and want it back to, but objectivity is key.

My point about MM is only to hammer home that as a game mode in terms of playing for fun, KOTH is just vastly more enjoyable. While that isn't specifically related to HCS, it's inline with many of the problems H5 has had from the start. If you don't have a certain level of sweaty Strongholds is basically unplayable which is not true for KOTH.

 

Spawns are always important, my point is just that again, it's way easier to just lose because of them in Strongholds. The key difference is you must be present in the hill to gain points in KOTH... which means you need to take a risk to gain points, just like CTF. The inverse is true in Strongholds, it's just much more in favor of the team that is already set up.

 

Most of CTF in H5 is great, main problem is that you can cap a flag in 15 seconds. There is too much punishment for a set of spawns that go bad.

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Strongholds is nothing like koth, and doesn't play like it. Extraction is koth pretty much, but you have to actually earn the plot. For that reason I think it's superior to koth.

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Strongholds is nothing like koth, and doesn't play like it. Extraction is koth pretty much, but you have to actually earn the plot. For that reason I think it's superior to koth.

I disagree with the analogy, but I can't for the life of me figure out why Extraction has not returned

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Before I respond to this, please understand: I am pro-KotH. I think KotH is the best non-Strongholds gametype in all of Halo. I think both should exist together.

 

Constant rotational gameplay is good because one of the best metrics for a skill-based game is movement. And no, I don't just mean like movement mechanics like Shotzzy's map movement jump skills.

 

If you are constantly encouraged/forced to move, it means your brain is constantly being challenged to weigh your options and determine the best choice. You're constantly making decisions which means there are multiple moments where you're either making an efficient/correct decision, or an inefficient/possibly wrong one. It means there are several moments where someone who understands the game at a higher level may be playing better than you.

 

This is one of the reasons I really dislike Slayer, ESPECIALLY on heavily segmented maps like Lockout, Pit, etc. Even though those maps can be amazing for spectator experience and close games on them can be huge adrenaline pumpers when playing or even watching... The maps play so slowly there are very few decisions. A few decisions decide the course of the entire game. Sure, you can come back from a deficit...but there are so few opportunities and moments where a weaker team who happened to win a few opening battles and gain control actually have to step out and fight to keep that control. They have weapons, you have no options. You're forced to hide until a new weapon spawn to try to salvage the game.

 

 

And to answer your other question, re: CTF...

In a very roundabout way, the gametype DOES have rotations...since you want to push to opponent's base and retreat to your own base in order to score. You literally have to cycle the entire map. A full rotation.

You make some good points, thanks.

 

In all fairness to my love for Slayer, a lot of it comes from competing in CE when I was younger. In general I think the higher reliance on teamshot and weaker utility weapons in the later games makes them less suited to Slayer than CE was. You didn't always have to hide with a good pistol shot, and the frequency of everything was higher.

 

Also as someone who loves Slayer, Lockout was an absolutely awful map for it. That was a Ball/king Map imo.

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I disagree with the analogy, but I can't for the life of me figure out why Extraction has not returned

 

Single-Point Extraction is a lot like KotH, and as far as I know the only reason it was used over KotH in H4 is because of the opacity of KotH barriers.

 

I'm still sad we never attempted to make the most out of Multi-Point Extraction.

 

...and on that note, I wish we'd try Multi-Bomb Assault (where each team has a bomb the entire game) as opposed to Neutral Bomb (Glorified Reverse Tug of War)

 

You make some good points, thanks.

 

In all fairness to my love for Slayer, a lot of it comes from competing in CE when I was younger. In general I think the higher reliance on teamshot and weaker utility weapons games the later games less suited to Slayer than CE was. You didn't always have to hide with a good pistol shot, and the frequency of everything was higher

 

Yeah, if we had a 0.6s kill time starting weapon, slayer would work a LOT better than it does.

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If we're talking about gametypes, I just want to say I really miss Lockout/Guardian ball.

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So who is noticeably better / worse after the updated settings?

 

LG is definitely better and Liquid is definitely worse, if you're one of those people who takes scrims seriously.

 

Has Str8 even scrimmed with Danoxide yet?

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So who is noticeably better / worse after the updated settings?

Too early to tell imo. Although Frosty has been visibly frustrated since the update, but that could also be due to completely unrelated reasons.

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