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CyReN

HCS Pro League Summer 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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I still hold firmly the belief that Slayer is the best 2v2 mode only because nearly every objective mode forces you to more or less be a man down for a given amount of time. Shame Extraction has been locked to Halo 4 and nobody has scripted it for 5, because Doubles Extraction was the shit.

While I'm not 100% opposed to using objective game types when playing 2v2 I personally don't think that it's really necessary to use them in a 2v2 format as long as power items are adequately doing their job as pseudo-objectives by incentivizing player movement in team slayer games.

 

While I haven't played Extraction in 2v2 I would imagine that it would be a more enjoyable objective game type to play in 2v2 than game types such as CTF on maps like Hang 'Em High. Out of all of the objective types that I've played for 2v2 the only one that I can really tolerate is oddball on Chill Out because Chill Out being a room-based map allows for players to easily isolate 1v1 encounters and do setups with the oddball.

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Slayer should only be game 5 or 7, AHP Octagon, BPR/Saw starts, 15 minute unlimited kills.

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Once HCS settings are confirmed, they should be placed on team arena and proving grounds should IMMEDIATELY come back to test varied respawn timers and to see how they impact potential gametypes (Slayer, ctf, king, assault).

 

What about this idea, instead of making slayer a 50 kill limit you make it an unlimited kill limit with a time limit of 12 or 15 minutes. You'd see more strategic gameplay and some serious statting.

 

Edit: Also get rid of rig & eden slayer. Slayer shouldn't be a played on an asymmetrical map.

That time limit is way too long. Maybe if it were 6 minutes. Or had some way to instantly end it, like achieving some large differential and maintaining it for some time.

 

I dunno, doesn't really sound better...

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What about this idea, instead of making slayer a 50 kill limit you make it an unlimited kill limit with a time limit of 12 or 15 minutes. You'd see more strategic gameplay and some serious statting.

 

Edit: Also get rid of rig & eden slayer. Slayer shouldn't be a played on an asymmetrical map.

That's a really good way to make me not want to play Slayer in matchmaking
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Not really. 

Gears of War doesn't have slayer in comp.

CoD doesn't have slayer in comp.

CS:GO doesn't have slayer in comp. 

Overwatch doesn't have slayer in comp IIRC. 

Rainbow Six: Siege doesn't have slayer in comp.

 

Yeah but none of those are ARENA shooters.  Quake is, and its only competitive gametype is Slayer.

 

...oh, wait...that's strictly 1v1

 

Slayer in h5 is so bad. I don't think I have ever known wtf is going on in any given slayer game since release. Still better than any alternative sadly.

 

KotH will always be better than

 

Slayer, Oddball, Assault, Capture the Flag, Extraction, Stockpile, Headhunter, Ricochet, VIP, Breakout, Extermination, Territories, Juggernaut, and whatever else janky-ass gametypes someone comes up with.

 

Except MAYBE Strongholds/3Plots/Domination/WhateverLabelIt'sGivenInAGivenTitle

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I miss the old objective gametypes where you had to put yourself at some sort of disadvantage to score. Whether it was essentially being down to 3 players in order to hold/capture (Oddball/pre flagnum CTF) an objective or having a player locked in one location in order to score (KOTH). I feel like Extraction was popular for the same reason.

 

I don't mind Strongholds I just think KOTH was better (Bring Back Pit KOTH 2009)

 

The Flagnum can fuck off though.

I never thought of there being a player in an designated area in KotH as putting the team in control at somewhat of a disadvantage. Maybe this is part of the reason why KotH and oddball were so good
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Yeah but none of those are ARENA shooters.  Quake is, and its only competitive gametype is Slayer.

 

...oh, wait...that's strictly 1v1

 

 

KotH will always be better than

 

Slayer, Oddball, Assault, Capture the Flag, Extraction, Stockpile, Headhunter, Ricochet, VIP, Breakout, Extermination, Territories, Juggernaut, and whatever else janky-ass gametypes someone comes up with.

 

Except MAYBE Strongholds/3Plots/Domination/WhateverLabelIt'sGivenInAGivenTitle

 

Might just be me, but I think Strongholds sucks as a competitive gametype. I think Oddball, Assault, and CTF were great, although I don't think any of them would play well with Halo 5. I don't know that anything really plays well with Halo 5.

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Might just be me, but I think Strongholds sucks as a competitive gametype. I think Oddball, Assault, and CTF were great, although I don't think any of them would play well with Halo 5. I don't know that anything really plays well with Halo 5.

 

Assault really is the worst in halo 5. But Oddball, KOTH and Extraction really should and least be tested. I think Extraction would work well cuz it was the only god thing to come from Halo 4 and Halo 5 has big maps just like Halo 4 did. I actually don't think Oddball would be very good in Halo 5, because of how fast you can move in the game now compared to old Halos. That's the same reason Assault blows.

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I prefer to watch Strongholds than KotH. I've written a couple of posts about it but it comes down to comeback potential and pacing. I find Strongholds to easily be the most exciting mode in the game to watch.

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I never thought of there being a player in an designated area in KotH as putting the team in control at somewhat of a disadvantage. Maybe this is part of the reason why KotH and oddball were so good

 

Yeah never approached it from that frame of mind either but that is a great point.  The winner of those gametypes is the team that can maintain control with a deficit better.  I think that's a great measure of skill and I think can put individual skill on display a little more.

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Assault

 

(Neutral Bomb) Assault just is not a good gametype outside of BTB -- especially when the majority of symmetrical 4v4 maps we get are the generic 2 base 2 tower kinds of layouts.

 

For an Assault map to work, you need an outer ring of the map where combat is not as heavy where players can take the bomb to soft reset map control if they get control of the bomb while they don't have control of the map.  This works a lot better in BTB (with maps like Rat's Nest) where teams have to COMPLETELY give up map pressure to defend an outer ring bomb rush, since vehicles can still traverse the outer ring faster than players can get back to their base from the inside.

 

But in situations where the bomb just kinda...falls on the opponent's side of the map and everything's still in front of you, because the control points are all on the edges of the map boundaries, it's possible to lose the bomb and still maintain map control...and if they try to move the bomb...you have map control in effectively a 4v3.  (But trying to push up to plant means you have to sacrifice that for something they can defend pretty easily, especially with the faster respawns in H5 objective relative to other games)

 

None of the maps we get in 4v4 really have a layout where the outside of the map is "safe" from the inside, since that'd be a pretty shit design for the majority of 4v4 gametypes due to what it would do to the sightlines on the map.

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I prefer to watch Strongholds than KotH. I've written a couple of posts about it but it comes down to comeback potential and pacing. I find Strongholds to easily be the most exciting mode in the game to watch.

KOTH has a lot of comeback potential, but no one has actually tried to make it function as such. Just make the points increase as more players of the same team hop on the hill, sacrificing map positioning for objective time.

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KOTH has a lot of comeback potential, but no one has actually tried to make it function as such. Just make the points increase as more players of the same team hop on the hill, sacrificing map positioning for objective time.

 

I never liked KotH Tactics in H2.  It rewards bad objective plays.

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Might just be me, but I think Strongholds sucks as a competitive gametype. I think Oddball, Assault, and CTF were great, although I don't think any of them would play well with Halo 5. I don't know that anything really plays well with Halo 5.

The game type itself isn't bad, but the matter of 343's hill placement makes the same strategies from slayer carry over to SH in a sense. The possibility of numerous setups seems more restrictive than a game like oddball, where people would take on completely extraordinary strategies and setups unlike other game types.

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In what way? Can you refresh my memory?

 

In precisely the way you're suggesting is a good idea.

 

Stacking the hill -- you give up so much spacing and map presence...and get rewarded for it.  You can say it's a "trade off" and that makes it fine, but it's still literally rewarding someone for doing something they shouldn't be doing in the context of a normal game.

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KOTH has a lot of comeback potential, but no one has actually tried to make it function as such. Just make the points increase as more players of the same team hop on the hill, sacrificing map positioning for objective time.

Not so much as Strongholds though. The fact that you need to put yourself at a disadvantage to score actually makes it harder to come back.

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What about this idea, instead of making slayer a 50 kill limit you make it an unlimited kill limit with a time limit of 12 or 15 minutes. You'd see more strategic gameplay and some serious statting. 

 

Edit: Also get rid of rig & eden slayer. Slayer shouldn't be a played on an asymmetrical map.

Well, Guardian Slayer was a thing until MLG v8.

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Yeah but none of those are ARENA shooters.  Quake is, and its only competitive gametype is Slayer.

 

...oh, wait...that's strictly 1v1

No it's not strictly 1v1 and no it's not strictly Slayer for competition. CTF is back at Quakecon this year and TDM has been doing its thing for years competitively (even maintaining multiple iterations of the game).

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In precisely the way you're suggesting is a good idea.

 

Stacking the hill -- you give up so much spacing and map presence...and get rewarded for it.  You can say it's a "trade off" and that makes it fine, but it's still literally rewarding someone for doing something they shouldn't be doing in the context of a normal game.

I think such a trade off like that would only work in the context of an easily punishing game like CE that had faster kill times and less room to escape or team shoot. In a game like H2, that would probably be really annoying.

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