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HCS Pro League Summer 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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I can't wrap my head around the fact that this was handled perfectly fine 10 years ago and yet now for whatever reason, this seems to bewilder 343.

 

this phrase can be applied to anything about 343's halo

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I remember we wrote a letter, the 5 needs for halo 5. A major part of the letter was for competitive "out of the box" default settings that stay true to what makes halo unique.

 

If you look back at the birth and height of competitive halo, h1-h3, the competitive settings closely mimicked the default settings. As the trilogy progressed competitive settings differed more and more from out of the box settings, yet the scene grew. Granted, the landscape of Esports was much different, but it poses the question of do you competitive settings need to be close to default settings. 

 

I think the whole universal settings debate is about growing the scene and it boils down to this:

 

1) do you convert casuals into competitive players?

2) or do you convert competitive people/gamers into competitive halo players? 

 

From my experience, our thesis of needing competitive default settings were wrong. The second option present the most opportunity for growth. We just need a good halo game. 

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If you look back at the birth and height of competitive halo, h1-h3, the competitive settings closely mimicked the default settings.

No they didn't. H1 default was plasma pistol starts, H2 was default SMG starts. All had radar on. We're the weapon placements mostly default? Close. But the sandbox was much smaller back then.

 

Halo has always and will always be about players creating and playing the experience that they want, not what everyone else wants. I personally would rather play a low populated HCS playlist with the No auto settings than to be forced to play the old Team Arena with a healthy population. Did anyone see how much people revolted when snipers was removed 2 months ago? People could care less about the population of their playlist as long as they can play the settings and the games that they want and still find a game.

 

Long story short, HCS playlist should be the only one with the current settings (other than FFA which should adopt a form of these), all other playlists should have all the autos that people want.

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Halo disagrees. Like wtf is Halo's core identity? Campaign? That's what the game is always marketed as and probably where the majority of people first experienced the game. 

 

Solid point.

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How about you actually respond to what I wrote the other night instead of completely misinterpreting it?

 

Wouldn't that be a refreshing change of pace for this conversation?

 

 

Also perhaps you could explain why my assessments are flawed? Because you've yet to make any arguments really other than "Nuh uh!".

 

Oh, the hypocrisy is almost palpable.

 

​Aiming in CS is not just about sprays. If aiming on PC with slowish movement were legitimately as easy as you seem to believe, that game would be nothing but one-taps at high levels, but it isn't. Even when you're standing still, hitting a moving target isn't easy (and gets harder at longer ranges). That assertion throws into question your claims about your apparently rock solid accuracy with a mouse... and "competing" in TF2, which is about as meaningless as your assertion that Halo on PC would play differently (specifics and context matter, you may be surprised to know).

 

Further, you seem to think that Halo on PC would, for some reason, have weapons as generous as the console version ("the sniper would become an absolute monster"). Obviously, there would be no bullet magnetism or aim assist, the two major reasons the H5 sniper is ridiculous to begin with. So, there goes a good majority of your points. Aiming as it is in Halo 5 is not particularly hard (outside of windmilling as a result of the trash aiming system), yet you think the skill gap would decrease with mouse aim and no aim assist? This is a game where resisting the urge to move your right stick is often more of a factor in a  precision 1v1 than any meaningful adjustments. Are you actually serious? If it actually is too easy with a mouse (you know, like it already is in Xbone H5 with a controller), improving the strafe is always a good option, but then Halo 5 has thrust for that anyway.

 

 

​You also don't seem to understand that aiming becomes inherently more difficult at long ranges. Which is especially relevant since bullet magnetism still applies outside of red reticle in Halo on console. The notion that, with a mouse and without aim assist, you would suddenly be able to completely lock down a map at any range is more than a bit ridiculous.

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has this discussion caused anyone to change their mind on unified settings? It seems like the same people saying the same things in 50 different ways hoping to win...not gonna happen

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I was a unified settings supporter until reading some of the arguments in here. Give people options and they will play what they want. My only concern is low pop numbers in HCS list but that's more on us as a community showing up (and of course being an experience we like)

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Wouldn't that be a refreshing change of pace for this conversation?

 

 

 

Oh, the hypocrisy is almost palpable.

 

​Aiming in CS is not just about sprays. If aiming on PC with slowish movement were legitimately as easy as you seem to believe, that game would be nothing but one-taps at high levels, but it isn't. Even when you're standing still, hitting a moving target isn't easy (and gets harder at longer ranges). That assertion throws into question your claims about your apparently rock solid accuracy with a mouse... and "competing" in TF2, which is about as meaningless as your assertion that Halo on PC would play differently (specifics and context matter, you may be surprised to know).

 

Further, you seem to think that Halo on PC would, for some reason, have weapons as generous as the console version ("the sniper would become an absolute monster"). Obviously, there would be no bullet magnetism or aim assist, the two major reasons the H5 sniper is ridiculous to begin with. So, there goes a good majority of your points. Aiming as it is in Halo 5 is not particularly hard (outside of windmilling as a result of the trash aiming system), yet you think the skill gap would decrease with mouse aim and no aim assist? This is a game where resisting the urge to move your right stick is often more of a factor in a  precision 1v1 than any meaningful adjustments. Are you actually serious? If it actually is too easy with a mouse (you know, like it already is in Xbone H5 with a controller), improving the strafe is always a good option, but then Halo 5 has thrust for that anyway.

 

 

​You also don't seem to understand that aiming becomes inherently more difficult at long ranges. Which is especially relevant since bullet magnetism still applies outside of red reticle in Halo on console. The notion that, with a mouse and without aim assist, you would suddenly be able to completely lock down a map at any range is more than a bit ridiculous.

Again, you completely misinterpret what I'm saying.

 

 

 

Further, you seem to think that Halo on PC would, for some reason, have weapons as generous as the console version ("the sniper would become an absolute monster"). Obviously, there would be no bullet magnetism or aim assist, the two major reasons the H5 sniper is ridiculous to begin with.

No I don't.

 

On PC there wouldn't be aim assist or bullet mag, however, in Halo these mechanics are used as balancing tools and dictate a number of ways in which the game is played.

 

On consoles the sniper has no or very little aim assist when out of scope, this makes it difficult to hit shots compared to weapons like the pistol. On PC you lose this balancing factor, hitting headshots with the sniper out of scope will be no more difficult than hitting headshots with the pistol. Do you not see why this is a problem? 

 

 

 

Aiming as it is in Halo 5 is not particularly hard (outside of windmilling as a result of the trash aiming system), yet you think the skill gap would decrease with mouse aim and no aim assist?

I would not be at all surprised if the skill gap between pros would decrease. Compared to other PC shooters the skill ceiling for aiming in Halo would very low. Go look at the shots good players can hit in games like Quake and tell me that people who dedicate their lives to playing Halo would struggle at all with hitting headshots with the pistol.

 

 

 

​You also don't seem to understand that aiming becomes inherently more difficult at long ranges. Which is especially relevant since bullet magnetism still applies outside of red reticle in Halo on console. The notion that, with a mouse and without aim assist, you would suddenly be able to completely lock down a map at any range is more than a bit ridiculous.

Of course I understand that. However, what you're missing is that on consoles the inherent difficulty increase is compounded by the RRR. The RRR range provides an effective range limit for a weapon. Again, on PC you lose this balancing factor, hitting long distance shots will be far easier relative to on console. I'm not saying you'd be able to lock down the map, I'm saying that you'll be able to contest more easily at further ranges which would have a myriad of different effects.

 

No response @@arglactable?

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Smash disagrees.

Smash does a good job supporting themselves. If comp Halo was self-sufficient we could run any game with any settings we wanted and I tell you what, it wouldn't be scrounging around in H5 to try and make something work.

 

It's not like this is some organic thing where you just happen to align with the developers vision for the game and everyone lives happily, it's always a compromis. If people don't want to compromise and are happy being on the periphery then realistically you have to accept that they might not want to keep putting the metric ass tonne of money into the comp scene that they have been doing.

 

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Some really good forum duels going on here, shocked I'm not in one this go-round.  Anywhoot, I was waiting till after the weekend to grind in the new playlist but I wanted to ask those of you who have - how has the aiming felt so far?  Only curious if the reduced amount of weapons in-game may have anything to do with "heavy-aim"

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The Rocket League community is divided between people who think comp should not have nonstandard maps and people who think non standard maps are good. I'm in the NO to Nonstandard maps because they don't have a level playing field (universal play) and tend to be extremely annoying to play on, but psyonix tip toes around the issue a lot. 

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Correct me if I'm wrong (I don't play many other games other than Halo) but isn't LoL competitive community bigger than its casual. In which case comparing Halo to it reguarding settings in multiple playlists wouldn't be a good thing to do since the casual community is bigger in Halo and the developer is more likely to please the larger part of the community first. Wouldn't the best comparison be to CoD since it is also console and it's casual community is larger than its competitive or to other games with a bigger casual player base.

 

Universal settings with 343s level of interaction and lack of change has proved to not work. Maybe it could for Halo with another developer but we have 343. So I say casuals and competitive communities playing on the same setting won't work and it's better for HCS to be different settings which are the most competitive

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I was a unified settings supporter until reading some of the arguments in here. Give people options and they will play what they want. My only concern is low pop numbers in HCS list but that's more on us as a community showing up (and of course being an experience we like)

Hell, I'd like to support unified settings if they focused on competitive Halo too.

 

But I won't because even I'm not enough of a prick to screw over the majority of the fanbase that is into something other than Halo esports.

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