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HCS Pro League Summer 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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solo q is still as cancerous as ever

Always great getting to3's and to2's in party chat on my team who play with no teamwork, even within their party, while playing against parties that actually do have some form of teamwork.
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Gotta disagree with overwatch. Arcade throws a lot out the window except for the function of the heroes. There is 1v1 and 3v3 "slayer" and 6v6 with the same objective but with either unlimited hero selection or randomized selection. The difference between quickplay and ranked is like going from team slayer to slayers in team areana.

 

But from a functionality perspective, yes the heroes always act the same so if thats what you mean then ignore me lol

How does it not fall under the category of 'universal settings'? The heroes and objectives play exactly the same, essentially quickplay is just playing one half of competitive, which is also the game played / broadcast competitively. Arcade is a peripheral experience, it's just a bit of a laugh on the side (unlimited heroes was actually how the game was played for the first half a year). If you play Overwatch and someone says "hey what does Overwatch play like?" you don't say "oh it's a 3v3 single life gametype, best of 5", you describe quickplay / competitive.

 

'Universal settings' are a mechanism to funnel players towards a single 'premiere experience' which in Overwatch is competitive:

Broadcast competitions / gameplay highlights advertise

Quickplay eases you in

You progress to Comp

You get more involved in the external community (for learning, for entertainment, to further compete)

It all grows bigger through community participation and more new people get sucked in, repeat

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I'm so salty that I can't play probably for the next eight or nine days, coincidentally the ONE time 343 released something on time.

 

 

 

Would you say it feels a bit quicker or slower than 4-2 as far as input response?

 

I always try other sense settings briefly and switch right back so im not sure if i can help you there. I can say though that, for me, i feel like its the perfect mix between being able to hit shots accurately and still turn around quickly. 

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Can you give merit to universal settings from a gameplay perspective? Strictly based on gameplay, what is a positive aspect of universal settings? I only see negatives. Not a single positive. Don't throw population, viewers, familiarity, etc. at me. It has no merit when speaking strictly about gameplay. Only talking about gameplay, what are the merits?

 

Spoiler: There are none. When both communities have to fight eachother to try to get their style of game accepted, it turns us against eachother instead of unifying us like 343i would have you believe. Universal settings work in the games you listed because those games are competitive from the start. Not to mention the LCS has a different draft than the playerbase.

 

I never said there were. 343's decision to not tune/refine/create base settings that are as competitive as they can be borders on incompetence.

 

And that is the dilemma we face.

 

Its "benefits can't be measured" because they don't exist. Either they stick to their guns and legitimize respectable competitive settings (and the casual players whine) or they make them separate. You can't make the argument that compromising between the two extremes has made ANYONE happy.

 

​TL;DR Commit to a focused vision

 

The benefits absolutely do exist, as is proven by games that are monumentally more successful than Halo.

 

I'm not advocating for a compromise, gameplay should always be as fun, competitive, and balanced as it can be, and 343 has failed to provide that in their "base game"

 

I want a focused, competitive vision. That is what I am advocating.

 

We've done just fine before.. We can do just fine now.

 

We did just fine when we were the front runners of first-person shooters, console games, esports as a whole, and more. We had the luxury of a colossal population, the most popular console, and majority of MLG's resources.

 

Strictly from a population/fragmentation perspective, one can easily cite the H2A HCS playlist as a colossal failure in regards to isolated competitive settings.

 

Gotta disagree with overwatch. Arcade throws a lot out the window except for the function of the heroes. There is 1v1 and 3v3 "slayer" and 6v6 with the same objective but with either unlimited hero selection or randomized selection. The difference between quickplay and ranked is like going from team slayer to slayers in team areana.

 

But from a functionality perspective, yes the heroes always act the same so if thats what you mean then ignore me lol

 

There is room for differentiation and niche gameplay experiences. CS has Deathmatch and other random modes, League of Legends has URF/ARAM and other Player vs. AI experiences. Overwatch has the Arcade and Server Browser, but Quick Play/Competitive are always at the forefront of the game. It is what the developer puts most of their resources into maintaining and is what the audience relates to/identifies as "Overwatch"

 

But what it comes down to is presentation. Halo is presented awfully. No specific experience can be specifically identified as core "Halo." Some people can claim this is a good thing (quote below) because "Halo has always been about variety" but the depressing truth is that literally every niche Halo audience is suffering because of its lack of identity. Competitive players struggled to get optimal settings from 343, Warzone has seen very little done to alleviate abusive game mechanics (farming), BTB does not have developer maps, Infection/Grifball take many months to update, which frustrates those communities.

 

Halo has a massive identity crisis, and its holding the game back.

 

Halo is variety the series. Like it or not, everyone likes Halo for different things.

 

 

As stated previously in this post, that is an ideology that survived because of Halo's success/popularity in the past. No other game in the modern ecosystem tries to cater to so many niche experiences, because it simply isn't practical.

 

Halo can't be "variety: the series" when our audience/population is a shell of what it once was, our developers are drastically less passionate, less resources/investment is being put into Halo, etc.

 

Every other game is succeeding with passionate developers, unilateral visions, constant refinement/services, etc.

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After playing the new PG/HCS Playlist the whole afternoon I got to say: THIS IS SO MUCH FUN! :ace: 

I'm not sure if I can adapt when going back to AR-starts playlists :D

These settings could work well in FFA and maybe Doubles, too I think.

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The culture of halo isn't unified settings. Competitiors and Casuals want different styles of Halo gameplay. Starting weapons, mechanics, radar, etc. There will always be a divide, and forcing it together causes a lot of problems within the community. 

 

Whoopie that some successful games use universal settings from the START of the series. CoD and Destiny, the two closest games to Halo in terms of eSports are chuck full of things from the base game that are BANNED. They have diverse settings and no one seems to be crying for universal settings.

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How does it not fall under the category of 'universal settings'? The heroes and objectives play exactly the same, essentially quickplay is just playing one half of competitive, which is also the game played / broadcast competitively. Arcade is a peripheral experience, it's just a bit of a laugh on the side (unlimited heroes was actually how the game was played for the first half a year). If you play Overwatch and someone says "hey what does Overwatch play like?" you don't say "oh it's a 3v3 single life gametype, best of 5", you describe quickplay / competitive.

 

'Universal settings' are a mechanism to funnel players towards a single 'premiere experience' which in Overwatch is competitive:

Broadcast competitions / gameplay highlights advertise

Quickplay eases you in

You progress to Comp

You get more involved in the external community (for learning, for entertainment, to further compete)

It all grows bigger through community participation and more new people get sucked in, repeat

Maybe i dont completely understand the full idea of universal settings.

 

To me arcade is an outlier in the way that a lot of people would view a pg/hcs playlist. As to quickplay vs ranked, i think that quickplay being a one-sided game changes how you play completely. As defense you only objective is to not allow the final capture while offense tries for ot to 0. In ranked, time management comes into play. Finish quickly on offense then try to stop the other team short. There is also rebalancing your team between games.

 

For halo weve always had outliers like grifball and rocket races but all games have the same basic settings. Cap flag, capture the hill, get the most kills. You can point to smaller 5v5 lists like snipers but to me those are like the ow arcade games.

 

But again i think im just not understanding universal settings

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These new settings are great, but ffs help solo q. The game is near unplayable when you consistently match to4s. 

 

I can't wrap my head around the fact that this was handled perfectly fine 10 years ago and yet now for whatever reason, this seems to bewilder 343.

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The culture of halo isn't unified settings. Competitiors and Casuals want different styles of Halo gameplay. Starting weapons, mechanics, radar, etc. There will always be a divide, and forcing it together causes a lot of problems within the community. 

 

Whoopie that some successful games use universal settings from the START of the series. CoD and Destiny, the two closest games to Halo in terms of eSports are chuck full of things from the base game that are BANNED. They have diverse settings and no one seems to be crying for universal settings.

 

I understand what you are saying. What I am saying is that a culture like that cannot succeed with Halo's current popularity and resources.

 

Call of Duty will run into the same problem that we have when their population dwindles (it already has if you observe the reduction of "Hardcore" playlists over the past installments, which has infuriated that community of players)

 

Maybe i dont completely understand the full idea of universal settings.

 

To me arcade is an outlier in the way that a lot of people would view a pg/hcs playlist. As to quickplay vs ranked, i think that quickplay being a one-sided game changes how you play completely. As defense you only objective is to not allow the final capture while offense tries for ot to 0. In ranked, time management comes into play. Finish quickly on offense then try to stop the other team short. There is also rebalancing your team between games.

 

For halo weve always had outliers like grifball and rocket races but all games have the same basic settings. Cap flag, capture the hill, get the most kills. You can point to smaller 5v5 lists like snipers but to me those are like the ow arcade games.

 

But again i think im just not understanding universal settings

 

 

Universal settings is becoming a bad term, as people have begun to misinterpret what their intention is (such as "catering to casuals")

 

Better terms:

  • Game presentation (such as Overwatch's "Quick Play" and "Competitive Play")
  • Universal vision (see: Rocket League has consistent gameplay w/ varying player counts)
  • Resource allocation (Overwatch puts 90% of resources towards 6v6, then experiments/offers unique niche experiences via Arcade)
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So whats everyones opinions on the state of halo 5 now that the new settings are confirmed and playable?

 

Sorry cba to look through the forum

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So whats everyones opinions on the state of halo 5 now that the new settings are confirmed and playable?

 

Sorry cba to look through the forum

Gameplay is 100101010019987397389wq79878979x more fun. I haven't played on any bad connections or heavy aim either since the update which is great. As for To4s I haven't played many but I also haven't been playing a lot of Onyx and Champions.

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So whats everyones opinions on the state of halo 5 now that the new settings are confirmed and playable?

 

Sorry cba to look through the forum

 

Significant improvement, I've actually took my xbox out of storage for it. Games on twitch seem to be playing a lot better, certain pros are actually changing their sensitivity over and over after losing too many pistol battles but I won't name anyone :kappa: . "Getting shit on" in pistol one-on-one's is actually a thing again now and it's great. So refreshing that people aren't just switching to AR's in all close range battles. You think someone has the kill in the bag and someone can always just clutch it up and 5-shot you from no shields. 

 

But it is REALLY annoying that for the first time since launch 343 have listened to all our feedback and done exactly what we asked them to do, yet people in this thread are still complaining about the tiny tiny pointless details they may have missed like the sky is falling. Member's like Gun Ranger attacking 343 already for not putting a certain pistol variant on the bottom mid of colosseum, it's just ridiculous. Take the victory and try and enjoy the new h5.

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I understand what you are saying. What I am saying is that a culture like that cannot succeed with Halo's current popularity and resources.

 

Call of Duty will run into the same problem that we have when their population dwindles (it already has if you observe the reduction of "Hardcore" playlists over the past installments, which has infuriated that community of players)

 

 

 

Universal settings is becoming a bad term, as people have begun to misinterpret what their intention is (such as "catering to casuals")

 

Better terms:

  • Game presentation (such as Overwatch's "Quick Play" and "Competitive Play")
  • Universal vision (see: Rocket League has consistent gameplay w/ varying player counts)
  • Resource allocation (Overwatch puts 90% of resources towards 6v6, then experiments/offers unique niche experiences via Arcade)

 

I understand your point.

 

but what's to say 343 shouldn't turn their vision to focus on WZ and only have comp Halo be the 10%? This argument can go both ways. Not to mention, by going universal you're screwing a decent amount of players.

 

One other thing is that both RL and OW started with this idea. The first iteration of the game was designed around universal settings. Halo is already an established IP (whether we recognize it as Halo or not). This carries an effect because you alter what people expect from the game. What people expect from Halo is a variety of different ways to play the game, thus universal settings does more harm than good. At least in my opinion.

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That was a good call to make it a choice to participate for console players. Otherwise it would be a real shitty experience. 

 

 

Well we don't know how bad of an experience it is just yet. 

 

 

PC player population is very low.

 

PC affects the playstyle differently.

 

Some PC players do use controllers.

 

Precision weapons are probably handled better by PC players if they have the skill.

 

 

 

 

 

Lots of factors but the data gathered from this will help. Also it will not punish players who get the PC versions. PC players had a lot of issues finding games.

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Gameplay is 100101010019987397389wq79878979x more fun. I haven't played on any bad connections or heavy aim either since the update which is great. As for To4s I haven't played many but I also haven't been playing a lot of Onyx and Champions.

 

Were the matches against to4 close or competitive? Wondering if the system Menke put in is helping. 

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Were the matches against to4 close or competitive? Wondering if the system Menke put in is helping. 

Has the system been put in? And anyways to4s don't really seem to be a problem until you start getting into high Onyx/Champion ranks in my experience.

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I understand your point.

 

but what's to say 343 shouldn't turn their vision to focus on WZ and only have comp Halo be the 10%? This argument can go both ways. Not to mention, by going universal you're screwing a decent amount of players.

 

 

And thus, dilemma #2.

 

If 343 believes Warzone should be the vision for Halo multiplayer, then that is their prerogative, as the Halo developer, they have the right to choose that, but they can't half ass it. However, Halo's "Arena" multiplayer formula (and Forge) is the ONLY unique aspect of multiplayer that it has, which is why I personally believe that Arena should be better presented and classified as "core Halo".

 

Games like GTA and Minecraft have more fun sandbox experiences, games like Battlefield have large scale warfare, Call of Duty and Titanfall have twitch-shooter-arcade action. Arena is the only thing Halo has, hence my desire for it to be its core vision.

 

Additionally, I want to point out that this unilateral approach doesn't have to abandon/shaft majority of Halo's communities. I actually was very fond of their dichotomy between Warzone and Arena at Halo 5's launch, but the presentation still needs a drastic overhaul. Overwatch and League of Legends have proven the viability of the existence of niche experiences with correct timing, resources and presentation.

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Not sure if this really matters or not in the grand scheme of things, but regarding overwatch in comparison to Halo, yes the settings are the same but the game can feel drastically different based on what you are trying to accomplish. Playing Mercy and pocket healing will feel a lot different than playing a Reinhardt.

 

Since Halo is equal starts, you won't ever get that variety of gameplay that OW offers. So it does have relatively "universal" settings but still offers a variety of play styles to flourish within that setting.

 

 

*Disclaimer - if 343 is watching. This is not some post advocating for Quake Halo Champions. 

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Not sure if this really matters or not in the grand scheme of things, but regarding overwatch in comparison to Halo, yes the settings are the same but the game can feel drastically different based on what you are trying to accomplish. Playing Mercy and pocket healing will feel a lot different than playing a Reinhardt.

 

Since Halo is equal starts, you won't ever get that variety of gameplay that OW offers. So it does have relatively "universal" settings but still offers a variety of play styles to flourish within that setting.

 

 

*Disclaimer - if 343 is watching. This is not some post advocating for Quake Halo Champions. 

 

 

Universal settings =/= universal gameplay

 

That's a bad comparison. A better comparison would be to say that Reinhardt behaves exactly in Quick Play as he does in Competitive, and in Arcade modes as well.

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