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HCS Pro League Summer 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Without numbers, I can't answer your question. All 343 said is "player retention is the best since Halo 3." That only means so much. And due to reasons outside of Halo, the game hasn't sold as well.

 

I can't speak on behalf of the community and whether they prefer newer to older Halos. Fans of both styles exist. That's about as much as I can safely assume.

Whilst it is true that there are no official numbers from its place in xbox most played charts and numbers other games have released we can get a decent general idea.

 

Although its true outside factors have impacted h5 sales saying they are all not halo related just isnt true. Given the reaction to h4 and mcc im pretty sure sone fans have just gone. I certainly have friendswho didnt buy h5 and have no interest in playing even though we still get together to play CE from time to time

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People just don't get it man. We have NEVER had radar in competitive Halo settings until Halo 5. Halo CE, Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo Reach, Halo 4, Halo 2 Anv all had no radar in every variation of the competitive settings. Radar does not belong in competitive Halo settings. Therefore:

 

Step 1: Take out radar.

 

Removing radar completely causes a few gameplay problems. These are not a result of removing radar, because removing radar has too many positive gameplay alterations. We look deeper. What are the problems? The gameplay is too hectic, and seemingly random. What causes this? The increased mobility. Of the increased mobility what allows you to move across the map at increasingly faster speeds but has no innate benefit? Sprint.

 

Step 2: Take out sprint.

 

Now getting around the map takes too long. Gameplay has slowed down. The maps are too large. Setups are near impossible to break. How do we fix this? Increase move speed, but this time lets increase the base movespeed instead of adding sprint. This will increase gameplay speed at a rate that of which sprint could never do. By increasing the base movespeed, you allow for players to shoot while moving. You also allow players to strafe and cause enemies to aim a lot better to actually hit their shots. All of this is beneficial to gameplay.

 

Step 3: Increase base movespeed.

 

Next we determine that players are still able to pounce on bases and know where the other players are even without radar. We determine the cause for this is communication and spawn predicting. This is good. This takes teamwork and game knowledge and allows players to use situations to their advantage to press a lead against the other team. Then an intern pipes up and informs me that grenade hitmarkers are just as bad if not worse than radar. He tells me that giving free information to the players is generally a bad idea. The player should have to work to earn that information. Makes sense.

 

Step 4: Remove grenade hitmarkers.

 

So far were happy with the progress. Players are starting to play the game again and talk is picking up about the next HCS season. Players are starting to search matchmaking in the new Team HCS playlist and we couldn't be more pleased over here at 343i. We take a day to pat ourselves on the back. In the morning we decide to contact a few of the pro players and see if there are any other changes that could be made to further improve the game. At 4:45 PM Aaron "Ace" Elam finally wakes up to a missed call from our office. He calls back as were about to head out for the day, but decide to put in a little bit of overtime for our players. Aaron tells us about how automatic weapons, splinter grenades, and rifles on truth keep him up at night. We decide to call a couple other players to verify his statements. The majority of players have the same issues. We honestly had no idea! Evidently there's some sort of competitive community that exists on some beyond website or whatever that has been talking about this for a few years, but it had never reached us! I decided that enough was enough. They all had compelling arguments, so I got to work right away. I decided that removing autos just from the starting weapons would be too much. We should leave some on the ground as pickups. Maybe not too different than that of a plasma pistol. One per map should be fine.

 

Step 5: Remove automatics from starting weapons. Add an Assault Rifle to the bottom area of most maps. Remove Brute Plasma Rifles and Storm Rifles. Remove Splinter grenades. Remove Rifles from Truth or change their positioning.

 

Satisfied with my work for the week I decide to watch a few online scrims to see what players are thinking of the updates. All was well.

 

I also put this post on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/61xty9/my_opinion_on_halo_5_and_a_new_ranked_playlist/

We NEED to find out who we need to give this feedback to. Posts like these are amazing but it they never get to anyone at 343 they are useless. I also feel like we will be able to get every pro on board with these changes which is going to make 343 more hesitant than they already are to changing.

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All of my casual friends left during Halo 4 (used to have a team of 4 almost every night from Halo 3 onwards). I asked why and the usual reply was 'it's not fun.' then after some digging I got them to say specifics. All of them said the same things.

 

"Armour Abilities are random and dumb"

"People just run away instead of fight"

"Maps are shit."

"Guns are all the same"

 

We tried Halo 5 but it was the same. Ugly, generic maps. People running away. Guns sound generic (and they've removed every single iconic sound).

 

Maybe if Halo felt like Halo again people might want to play it?

Halo needs to evolve. Halo 5 has the best weapon balance out of every game ever created and it makes the game so much more enjoyable and skillful. Spartan abilities are amazing and make me feel like a real spartan. All you purests ever want is for every halo to be an exact copy just like Halo 1,2, and 3. Learn to adapt.

 

(Sarcasm off) Anyone else find it weird that CoD started struggling when shit like boosters and wall running were added? Or that MWR is much more popular than IW and the next botg CoD is way more hyped than the last 3 CoDs? Maybe because CoD fans want to play CoD and couldn't give a shit about it evolving.

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We NEED to find out who we need to give this feedback to. Posts like these are amazing but it they never get to anyone at 343 they are useless. I also feel like we will be able to get every pro on board with these changes which is going to make 343 more hesitant than they already are to changing.

btw if anyone is looking for people to fill test lobbies for these settings hmu

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Hey guys, I know there's a lot of discussion around settings. What do people think about adding Mercy to Arena/comp settings to mix things up a bit? Especially if we remove radar and autos (and sprint) I think it will be a top 3 map in this game at least

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This is why CE is the best. You can be slightly above average and just soul-crush for days

I love having someone run at you AR blazing from 4 or 5 meters away, a quick turn round and 'bang, bang, dead'.  So satisfying.

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Hey guys, I know there's a lot of discussion around settings. What do people think about adding Mercy to Arena/comp settings to mix things up a bit? Especially if we remove radar and autos (and sprint) I think it will be a top 3 map in this game at least

Dunno about top 3 but with new radar and a different weapon set it would be decent.

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People are comparing LoL to Halo and it's tough because MOBA doesn't translate very well to FPS as far as comparison goes. But the fact remains that the LCS settings are the same as what the playerbase gets when they log on, except the LCS is frequently a patch behind. To make a comparison to radar, you don't get extra vision in LoL because you're playing unranked or the ranked playlist. You have the same fog of war as the LCS pros when they play on stage. It isn't a great parallel, but it's better than nothing. I think universal settings, done correctly, is a boon for the scene. It makes the game easier to pick up for new/casual players. But as the competitive players, it shouldn't be us compromising. The base game shouldn't be holding players' hands. If your game is well made, fun, and constructed on a competitive base, people will play it.

 

There are so many little things wrong with Halo 5 that could have and should have been addressed through its life. It's probably too late on a lot of them (party restrictions) because they've already started bleeding playerbase. The fair assumption is that 343/MS is hyperfocused on what is currently successful in the FPS market because what other explanation is there for H4 and H5? With that in mind, I'm hoping the success of Battlefield 1 and the current hype for the next boots-on-the-ground CoD have got their attention. Hopefully they're seeing the buzz around those games and it affects their decision making for Halo 6. If not, I'll pray for a well-done H3A.  :prayers:

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Settings have nothing to do with growing the game. That's all marketing. People here complain about settings, yet I saw so many people yesterday say they didn't watch halo but loved the finals with optic and would want to watch more.

 

3 of the last 4 cods were disliked by most fans but they're still huge and everyone plays. Why? Because it's well marketed. It has relevant celebrities in their commercials. They're ubiquitous when it's near release dates and the games are just casual and solid enough to play for both noobs and pros. Same reason people claim to hate transformers but still see it.

 

 

Halo still focuses it's marketing on the campaign story when there's a whole generation of shooter fans who've never even played the campaign. Don't know who the arbiter or the flood is, and don't give a shit. The whole emphasis should change

I second this completely. I usually play the campaign, but don't give a shit about beating it, or the story. Multi-player was always the reason I played, and really is the only the part of the game that kept me coming back. Yet, in any review, ad, or documentary (including from 343) only focuses on the campaign and all the production that goes into it. Let's pretend 343's staff actually reflects what people give a shit about. That means 80% of it should be suporting and developing the multiplayer experience. Nah imagine. Also, if it wasn't for pro Halo, I would have stopped paying attention to the game 3 weeks after it came out.

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All of my casual friends left during Halo 4 (used to have a team of 4 almost every night from Halo 3 onwards). I asked why and the usual reply was 'it's not fun.' then after some digging I got them to say specifics. All of them said the same things.

 

"Armour Abilities are random and dumb"

"People just run away instead of fight"

"Maps are shit."

"Guns are all the same"

 

We tried Halo 5 but it was the same. Ugly, generic maps. People running away. Guns sound generic (and they've removed every single iconic sound).

 

Maybe if Halo felt like Halo again people might want to play it?

getting old halo fans to play it again doesn't fall under 'growing the scene' for me.

 

It just falls in line with "settings are trash and we won't play it anymore" someone completely outside of Halo won't care.

 

And the COD argument by destroyer doesn't work. Since the tournaments and competitive scene grew the most with the CODs with the settings many pros complain about.

 

 

I know H5 is not a classic Halo game, and I would love to have a less working radar, pistol starts only (though no BR fuck that, autos should stay on map), and grenade hitmarkers gone, but I love the mobility of H5, thrusters, clamber, slide.. I like that and don't think it takes skill out of the game.

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I second this completely. I usually play the campaign, but don't give a shit about beating it, or the story. Multi-player was always the reason I played, and really is the only the part of the game that kept me coming back. Yet, it any review, ad, or documentary (including from 343) only focuses on the campaign and all the production that goes into it. Let's pretend 343's staff actually reflects what people give a shit about. That means 80% of it should be suporting and developing the multiplayer experience. Nah imagine. Also, if it wasn't for pro Halo, I would have stopped paying attention to the game 3 weeks after it came out.

A lot of people who buy the game do though, Halo 5's campaign not only does it have the worst story in the franchise it offers zero replay value, its terrible for solo runs on legendary, terrible for speed running and doesn't even have campaign scoring. Its hands down the worst campaign by far.

 

The campaign is still a massive selling point for Halo and most games you only have to look at the backlash it recieved on release and the backlash Battlefront recieved.

 

Edit: I agree that there needs to be a more focused marketing push on the multiplayer side.

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The reason halo's campaign centric marketing doesnt resonate is because the campaign is trash, not because campaign is no longer a huge selling point for video games.

 

Beyond narrative quality, h5 was missing many of the things campaign players expect from halo, like split screen, scoring, and open ended gameplay

 

Halo5s campaign marketing was actually excellent. If it launched alongside some positive reviews and accolade trailers, no one would question the marketing focus.

 

Perhaps not really marketing MP to the mainstream is a mistake, but people all often come for the SP then stay for the MP. Good MP also sells itself through word of mouth.

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All of my casual friends left during Halo 4 (used to have a team of 4 almost every night from Halo 3 onwards). I asked why and the usual reply was 'it's not fun.' then after some digging I got them to say specifics. All of them said the same things.

 

"Armour Abilities are random and dumb"

"People just run away instead of fight"

"Maps are shit."

"Guns are all the same"

 

We tried Halo 5 but it was the same. Ugly, generic maps. People running away. Guns sound generic (and they've removed every single iconic sound).

 

Maybe if Halo felt like Halo again people might want to play it?

Been saying this since forever. I'm going hard on bringing back Halo's 'iconic feel' on YouTube recently, and the response is genuinely mind blowing, we're talking hundreds of thousands of views on art style videos alone. A significant amount of people want old Halo back, and I'd hazard a guess that many of these people currently aren't playing Halo due to it feeling so different.

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I just want them to refine the original formula instead of changing it completely every God damn game.

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and doesn't even have campaign scoring.

They added it in halfway through last year

 

 

 

Casuals playing the same setting as pros could work if the HCS was bigger. But there are lots of people playing halo that either don't know competitive exists or they don't care. So cause of that they should just have arena different with actual competitive settings. Even though it would be different, it's not like someone would be completely lost playing it.

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Settings have nothing to do with growing the game. That's all marketing. People here complain about settings, yet I saw so many people yesterday say they didn't watch halo but loved the finals with optic and would want to watch more.

 

3 of the last 4 cods were disliked by most fans but they're still huge and everyone plays. Why? Because it's well marketed. It has relevant celebrities in their commercials. They're ubiquitous when it's near release dates and the games are just casual and solid enough to play for both noobs and pros. Same reason people claim to hate transformers but still see it.

 

 

Halo still focuses it's marketing on the campaign story when there's a whole generation of shooter fans who've never even played the campaign. Don't know who the arbiter or the flood is, and don't give a shit. The whole emphasis should change

 

I don't think 343 has released any kind of details about what percentage of players play the Campaign/Multiplayer, so we don't really know which is more popular (correct me if I'm wrong because I'm very interested). It probably makes sense that you and the people you know don't know or care about the Campaign details because you're on a competitive multiplayer forum. You obviously like the multiplayer, and you're probably going to know people who share your interests.

 

Even if a large portion of the Halo community don't care about the Campaign, it would still make sense to market the Campaign because a) there are clearly people who do care about it and b) Halo has the Master Chief. The Master Chief is a pop culture icon, and it cannot be understated how powerful that is for marketing purposes. There's a reason so many video game companies in the 90s and early 00s were trying to make "mascot" video games to match Nintendo and Mario.

 

If you're a casual video game fan and you're flipping through TV channels, you might not recognize the visuals for an ad featuring multiplayer elements, but you'll almost certainly recognize the Master Chief. That's huge for marketing purposes.

 

That being said, there's no reason they can't do both, and stuff like the HWC obviously needed better advertisement.

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The reason halo's campaign centric marketing doesnt resonate is because the campaign is trash, not because campaign is no longer a huge selling point for video games.

 

Beyond narrative quality, h5 was missing many of the things campaign players expect from halo, like split screen, scoring, and open ended gameplay

 

Halo5s campaign marketing was actually excellent. If it launched alongside some positive reviews and accolade trailers, no one would question the marketing focus.

 

Perhaps not really marketing MP to the mainstream is a mistake, but people all often come for the SP then stay for the MP. Good MP also sells itself through word of mouth.

Agreed on the marketing it actually got me masssively pumped for the campaign and story, tbf I think Microsofts advertising especailly with Halo is always second to none.

 

Im currently playing through Reach again on BC and its night and day compared to H5, the campaign with the sandboxes and objectives it gives you within them couple with Martys score are way way more fun and enjoyable to play, the only mission that even remotely gave me that feel in H5 was Swords of Shanghelios and by that point I was completely unengaged from the story and the game itself just felt like a massive grind.

 

Personally I think having a solid and enjoyable campaign is essential to bringing in new players especially with online modes that emulate the campaign experience like firefight, its a way to ease new players in.

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Agreed on the marketing it actually got me masssively pumped for the campaign and story, tbf I think Microsofts advertising especailly with Halo is always second to none.

I actually started watching HCS because of the campaign funnily enough. I had finished watching all the promotional stuff and wanted to see more (as h5 was the first halo game I would've got at launch). Then I found the gamescom pre launch tournament and have been watching since

 

Could you imagine them adding HCS to the lore. 2 soldiers in the background in the campaign saying "have you seen the game" like a normal sport conversation but about HCS with a logo and a link to halo.gg. But that's not going to happen

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