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CyReN

HCS Pro League Summer 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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I'm glad they removed AR. However, I can see the shitstorm coming down the road when they try to forcefully reintroduce it. Why are they so stubborn? And why are storm rifles and SMGs still in competitive?

 

Edit: where's my premium at @@Saucey @@CyReN

 

It deducted the money from my account yesterday.

Same. I dont like being blue and seeing that i ran out of rep. Last time this happened it resolved itself in a couple hours so im waiting.

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I typed this up for a PM a while back.  sorry it's so long, but with the new conversations on player money thought I would join the discussion

 

The goal is to have more players be able to live from playing the game full time.  I think this also could/should benefit the company behind the game so I added some of that opinion in my problem statement.

 

 

 

Problem: currently it is only possible for about 10 teams (40 people) to be able to make a living playing Halo.  If we could have the top 100 players in the world be able to make a decent living playing Halo by the time Halo 6 release we would be able to greatly increase player and developer revenue. 

 

Current state: The pay out structure from all tournaments benefits the same top teams with little to no money trickling down to the players just outside the "pro teams".  Bigger payouts for top performers is definitely attractive to the most talented console players (i.e. top heavy payouts do have some benefit).  The top performers are the ones that generate most of the viewers, and therefore revenue for the developer.  We regularly see good players drop from the scene for reasons I don't know, but can only guess more money would help reduce (calm, swift, formal, enable, Rammy, I'm sure many others I can't think of off the top of my head - heck derskey and neighbor when they quit).  Payouts and expenses are limited and need to be spent in areas that will bring the most viewers and players to the game. Tournament payouts are NOT the only way that a player can profit from playing the game.  There are currently organizations that help with expenses and small salaries.  There is some money to be had from streaming and youtube content, but gaining enough of a following to be profitable in those areas is nearly impossible.  Tournament payouts have to make headlines to get viewers.  It feels "wrong" to have a team make more money at a tournament than the team that beat them.  Most players are on very tight budgets and struggle to wait long times for payouts.

 

Root Cause: fans generate revenue by spending money, and being shown advertisements.  There are currently not enough fans to support additional money, and there is little perceived benefit to spreading the amount of money beyond the top teams.

 

Proposed Solution(s): Use all possible methods to help players create a living through Halo.  I have NO idea how much req money generates.  Have way more skins for people and orgs and share the profit.  The other side of the profit should go to an esports community manager's salary.  This person's job is to help players make more money.  They would promote streams through official Halo media, they would spend time with players that have shown effort and reached a certain point with tips on how to improve their stream, or youtube content.  They could help present some analytics around different content and what brings in viewers and what time is best for x thing based on what all the players do.  At tournaments this person could conduct interviews and help build a story around the player during downtime.  

 

Tournaments would be structured, advertised, and payouts given based on the whole thing, not the individual tournament.  HWC is a great example.  Instead of the same teams making the only money that exist at each tournament it would be seen as a single tournament with multiple legs.  If you place high enough the majority of your "points" get paid out at a future date. While you get a smaller (than currently) check at the event you can cash on Monday to help with living expenses.  The rest of the money for that event then goes to the top "amateur" players.  the key to the change is making it benefit the top players with immediate payouts (assuming this doesn't happen now), and also benefit the lower players with more money.  This does inevitably mean the top players make a little less overall from winnings.  However, if those players have more followers they are also likely to draw more orgs, higher salaries, and even just make more on their own.  

 

The thing that increases revenue for the players is FANS.  343 Needs to spend more time and effort bringing fans to the scene and promoting specific players and stories to increase how many people can afford to make a living from playing the game.

 

Metrics: Official 343 attempts to promote players/orgs.  Including but not limited to tweets, waypoint articles, xbox dashboard messages, content shown during events, stream events, community nights with players, etc.  Twitch viewership of Halo 5, Youtube subscribers, and twitter followers for each player on a top 32 team (top 32 would not be strictly NA, but also include EU and LATAM).  Have info to prove to players they can make money and a guideline on how to do it. Total "fans" that end up buying H6.

 

tl;dr - 343 focus on building a community so there are more fans which means more money to go around

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@Moses_FPS already had a rough one with the whole EW debacle. I highly doubt he wants to shit on our Meme God's beautiful work

 

that's what the untrained eye might think but i scammed you fools so badly, you don't get 20k rep by accident

 

mcXTPd0.png

 

"spreading the prize pool thin"

 

he says regarding the largest open top 8 prize pool in six years regardless of even $10k being put aside

there has already been two 50k tournaments that only paid out top 8 this year

 

there is an argument to be made that 75k split 16 ways is in fact spreading the prize pool thin

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Same. I dont like being blue and seeing that i ran out of rep. Last time this happened it resolved itself in a couple hours so im waiting.

 

Looking into it now, might be something up with Paypal since it's been multiple people now.

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I think paying more teams is a good thing but I am really not sure how it should be done. Top teams shouldn't be affected too much though, that is for sure.

 

Maybe top 12 would be better ?. Again, very half assed announcement with little explanation/transparency. Hopefully there will be detailed breakdown with the reasoning behind it.

 

I really liked this am league Knighty and Poverb casted. Not sure there was any money in it but that was definitely interesting. So a more structured am scene with ways to get some money dedicated to am players.

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Dont think the Waypoint article stated it was gonna be pistol only starts.

 

Storm Rifle skins anyone?  :walshy:

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that's what the untrained eye might think but i scammed you fools so badly, you don't get 20k rep by accident

 

mcXTPd0.png

 

B1bs0b6.gif

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Hopefully the aiming can get fixed in Halo 5. It's one the biggest reasons I don't play the game right now. Finally good news though for the competitive community. It's been awhile!

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Anyone else excited to actually see cqc magnum battles in this game. High skill gap and reaction times will be so much better than crouch AR headshot gameplay. I expect way more reversals and possibly smarter thrust play as the room for error with pistols is far more punishing than automatics. 

 

On another note, I believe railgun/sniper need to be reworked for post summer season. No magnetism for either and minimal to zero aim assist; Reducing ammo count is a bandaid fix and we should push for the finest settings h5 can provide. Shoulder charge should also be removed. BR/Carbine red reticle ranges could use tweaking as well to help spawners. SPNKR should be removed and replaced with a standard rocket. No silent weapons at all, they're autos that's their advantage in a pistol orientated meta. 

 

I'm actually excited to watch scrims again and see just how much the meta can improve. 

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Wouldn't be opposed to the reintroduction of autos if they were skillful and balanced additions to the sandbox.

 

I don't have much faith in the sandbox team, given it's been 1.5 years and the only positive change they've made is an inadequate sniper nerf. But I do like that @@Neighbor is on the team. Hopefully something good will come out of it.

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cmon man HWC was really bad

 

the tournament itself was  :fire:

the social media reaction / news coverage was  :mj:

 

99%* of the people who heard about HWC never watched a single match

In what way was that tournament not embarrassing for us? The general esports community view it as a complete joke.

"one of the most embarrassing esports events ever" was the quote. Worlds had a subpar venue, production was great, in fact almost everything else was great other than a smallish delay in the finals (anyone who watches other esports knows tech delays are inevitable, in fact I'd say Worlds had a good showing from that standpoint). Aside from the games themselves it was forgettable at worst, definitely not in the category for the worst Halo events let alone worst esports events.

 

This is what a true calamity looks like, 'Gaming Paradise': visa issues, food poisoning players, 12 hour delays, tournament runs out of money, multiple parties not getting paid (including accom), cancelled mid-tournament, police involvement.

 

 

https://dotesports.com/counter-strike/sasa-bulic-csgo-gamers-paradise-3344

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that's what the untrained eye might think but i scammed you fools so badly, you don't get 20k rep by accident

 

mcXTPd0.png

 

there has already been two 50k tournaments that only paid out top 8 this year

 

there is an argument to be made that 75k split 16 ways is in fact spreading the prize pool thin

Without seeing the spread, there really isn't an argument to be made. Given the percentage drop offs used for 1-8 historically, the 9-16 distributions are likely to have a negligible impact on what the top 8 make.

 

Ofcourse they could fuck it up, and give 9-16 way too much money. We'll just have to wait and see.

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These settings are amazing but I'll wait until some form of party restrictions are added before I start playing again. Definitely will start watching more Halo though.

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Can we drop the Top 16 argument for a bit and focus on yet another example of a 

 

Complete Lack of Clarity

from 343?

 

We hear that REQ pack sales bumped the prize pool from 25k to 75k.  Great!  That's wonderful!

 

Okay, what time frame were these REQ sales going?  What % of REQ sales went to this prize pool?  What REQs contributed to this prize pool?  Is there still time to increase this prize pool with more REQs?  Are REQs currently funding Dreamhack Atlanta?  If not, when do they start funding Atlanta?  Should I just not buy REQs until then?

 

 

Be happy about the changes but please, everyone, don't stop holding 343 accountable.

Wanting financial transparency as a forum dweller/fan is probably not a good goal to set.  Business barely let employees know what is going on in that department.  Be glad you got what little info this is and move on to a topic you can influence, like settings, if you want to keep improving H5.

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Can we drop the Top 16 argument for a bit and focus on yet another example of a

 

Complete Lack of Clarity

from 343?

 

We hear that REQ pack sales bumped the prize pool from 25k to 75k. Great! That's wonderful!

 

Okay, what time frame were these REQ sales going? What % of REQ sales went to this prize pool? What REQs contributed to this prize pool? Is there still time to increase this prize pool with more REQs? Are REQs currently funding Dreamhack Atlanta? If not, when do they start funding Atlanta? Should I just not buy REQs until then?

 

 

Be happy about the changes but please, everyone, don't stop holding 343 accountable.

Im all for transparency but what difference does it make knowing the finer details of req pack funding ? Genuine question.

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Now that its no AR starts they should have extra time to get the other orgs pistol skins out quicker?  :uncledrew:

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The other thing I would like to point out is, Tashi said  "Next month, we’ll also be releasing prizing information for both HCS Pro League Finals tournaments, which will also feature a prize pool boosted by crowdfunds. While I can’t reveal exact numbers just yet, you can expect that these events will feature a significantly higher prize pool than HCS Daytona." So we could have legit 100k to spend on 1-16th instead of 75k for Atlanta and Denver.

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Im all for transparency but what difference does it make knowing the finer details of req pack funding ? Genuine question.

because knowing if 50% or 2% fund HCS is going to influence peoples decision to buy

 

if i knew it was a big % i would be a lot more likely to buy gold packs

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what if we had DMR starts?

Not unless they nerf the DMR to be like the Halo reach DMR (basically the same as the H5 pistol). So at that point it's just a model change because rifles look cooler than pistols. So it doesn't really matter.

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These New Setting 8's are really fun to watch, hopefully there are some more tonight.

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I tried asking quite a few 343i people about REQ Pack % towards prizes in 2016 and never got an answer. I can't imagine we'll ever get a number - could be MS holding it back too.

 

I get why they don't, but would be nice to know where the % is going.

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