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CyReN

HCS Pro League Summer 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Settings aren't done yet. And pros haven't been picking up smgs and storms in their customs. Only silenced ars.

 

 

 

I want gunfighter and tactical magnums on the map @@Tashi

That's the dream.

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really bad mindset for growth.

You can't buy growth. I'd say your mindset isn't bad, it's just wrong lol. 

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You can't buy growth. I'd say your mindset isn't bad, it's just wrong lol. 

 

ah yes, because an invite only top 8 online pro scene has been working wonders so far. 

 

you can buy growth, if you know what to invest the money in, like creating a fun to play game, and investing in creating an open, competitive environment like MLG has done,. And giving players a little more incentive to compete, especially since 99% of people who turn up to open events know they're not placing in the money and are only competing for the fun and experience of playing against they're favourite pros. 

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ah yes, because an invite only top 8 online pro scene has been working wonders so far. 

Ah yes, because I said that was the key and they were doing that right... 

 

Growth isn't gonna be bought for 250 dollars for the 16th best team. It'll be bought with a good open structure, good settings people all agree on, and non invite tourneys...

 

Also gonna add that I'm a pro player I don't work at 343/ESL just in case you were confused

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Ah yes, because I said that was the key and they were doing that right... 

 

Growth isn't gonna be bought for 250 dollars for the 16th best team. It'll be bought with a good open structure, good settings people all agree on, and non invite tourneys...

 

Also gonna add that I'm a pro player I don't work at 343/ESL just in case you were confused

 

so you can buy growth? you seem confused.

 

i never even came close to implying you were a 343 or ESL employee.

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so you can buy growth? you seem confused.

Says the guy who made up some world where I said the online pro league was how to grow... Yes I am confused

 

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The only game that has a tournaments as it's main structure and pays out top 16 is basically CS. COD events have 200+ teams, 1st gets more than our entire pool and they are paying top 8 not 16. 

 

Also poor 7th-8th in this distribution. 

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Says the guy who made up some world where I said the online pro league was how to grow... Yes I am confused

 

you're creating your own arguments now, i said the current structure is terrible for growth, i even later clarified that open structures are more conducive to growth, and that 99% of people who compete will never make any money, they do it for fun, so paying out 9-16 is just a little reward for their troubles.

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@@LethuL and @@Unreall you guys are having separate arguments.

 

Tj is saying that your statement of "invite only top 8 online pro scene has been working wonders so far." Somehow implies that he believes the current format is working he agreed on you with everything minus 9-16 payouts for growth.

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You can't buy growth.

 

 

Growth isn't gonna be bought for 250 dollars for the 16th best team. It'll be bought with a good open structure

 

 

:lxthul:

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you're creating your own arguments now, i said the current structure is terrible for growth, i even later clarified that open structures are more conducive to growth, and that 99% of people who compete will never make any money, they do it for fun, so paying out 9-16 is just a little reward for their troubles.

You later added that. I had never said anything to even point to defending how it's been run. So that was pointless to bring up. You can "buy" growth with those things but that's just called growth. Not buying it by saying come to the event and we will give you money, that is actually just trying to buy it lol. Just saying this route has been tried before and it was nothing but a failure. Let's just learn from the past for once? 

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You later added that. I had never said anything to even point to defending how it's been run. So that was pointless to bring up. You can "buy" growth with those things but that's just called growth. Not buying it by saying come to the event and we will give you money, that is actually just trying to buy it lol. Just saying this route has been tried before and it was nothing but a failure. Let's just learn from the past for once? 

 

 

 what I don't understand is you saying it was a total failure, learn from the past, but there is no way to provide any evidence for that? 

 

if the main problem with viewership, attendance, team passes sold, is how ESL structured their events, how does prize distribution have any effect on that? 

 

How can we know that if there was a good open structure, and 9-16 payouts that it wouldn't be more successful?

 

you're assumptions about this are based on poor parameters set up by 343. 

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I can see both sides for the paying 16 argument, Lethul is semi right in saying that teams outside top 4 don't get a whole lot but 75k for an open event isn't great but its much better than what we've had. However there should be more incentive for AM teams to attend events especially when we are struggling to get 50 teams at an event. When UGC tried paying top 16 back in H2A they only had a 22k prize pool so it was pretty stupid especially the way the divided it, but with 75k it can spread more evenly. Another thing is the top 8 teams are getting paid to play in the Pro League on top of the money they make from placing at events which AM's don't get.

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The 75k prize pool doesn't justify a top 16 payout. Id say for anything under 100k it should be top 8 payout, 100k to 200k is top 12 payout and anything above can be top 16 payout. Thats how it seems Gears is by checking the wiki.

 

Cause even with the 50k prize pools that OpTic won, they only got 5k each minus the cut to Royal 1. Which is better than what most people get from tournaments combined, but they proved they were better by winning the tournament and only get 5k for a months work (not including money from org). They you go further down to the 4th team and they only got 1k each for a months work. While I do agree with AMs getting money as an incentive, its not much considering they will probably lose overall from flight and hotel costs. You need to get more orgs involved to sponsor the AM teams travels so the teams have a stable income first imo. Better league structure to include AMs and better settings should do this. Then you can start paying top 12 then top 16 when more orgs and sponsors come and when prize pools increase.

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 what I don't understand is you saying it was a total failure, learn from the past, but there is no way to provide any eevidence for that? 

 

if the main problem is how ESL structured their events, how does prize distribution have any effect on that? 

 

How can we know that if there was a good open structure, and 9-16 payouts that it would be more successful?

 

you're assumptions about this are based on poor parameters set up by 343. 

H2A UGC St. Louis. 

 

H2A had an open and point structure 100x better than what we currently have, teams had every opportunity to play in the same stuff as pros.

 

UGC Prize distribution went out to top 16, the team that got 4th got 550 dollars lol. The pool now is bigger but still 75k is not something amazing where it can start getting spread this thin. 

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Lethul and the pros win again

 

Tashi: 13-16 gets their team pass reimbursed + 3 req packs.

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H2A UGC St. Louis. 

 

H2A had an open and point structure 100x better than what we currently have, teams had every opportunity to play in the same stuff as pros.

 

UGC Prize distribution went out to top 16, the team that got 4th got 550 dollars lol. The pool now is bigger but still 75k is not something amazing where it can start getting spread this thin.

 

fair enough about the shitty distribution.

 

i never watched h2a

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@@LethuL No matter how small the prizing, giving money to the Top 16 legitimizes those spots. It provides validation for everyone who is working hard to compete and hopes to one day knock you off the throne. 

 

Does spreading the prize pool out hurt you guys at the top of their game now? Absolutely. Does it guarantee Halo becomes top dog again? No. But I think spreading the wealth (no matter how small) is the right decision for the greater good given the current league/tourney structure. 

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@@LethuL No matter how small the prizing, giving money to the Top 16 legitimizes those spots. It provides validation for everyone who is working hard to compete and hopes to one day knock you off the throne.

 

Does spreading the prize pool out hurt you guys at the top of their game now? Absolutely. Does it guarantee Halo becomes top dog again? No. But I think spreading the wealth (no matter how small) is the right decision for the greater good given the current league/tourney structure.

Mlg really convinced ams that top16 was "pro" and so many just wanted to get there for just that pro pass and access to the red bull lounge. Is a red bull lounge in the budget, or do pros want that too!
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I'll buy a taped off section and if you get top 16 you can come in if that's really what will make people feel accomplished

Will there be red bull though?

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