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HCS Pro League Summer 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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A self described casual speaking some sense. You can skip the first 2 min of you want

 

video

The JSRF music in the background is some good kush.

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I think you need to see this post from Gobias.

 

http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/5443-halo-5-guardians-discussion/page-3710?do=findComment&comment=639495

 

Come back to me when you've read it all.

 

While I agree with things said in this post. Nah

 

Its all good saying what would/could happen by changing the magnum to a 4sk but it would have to be tested first to see if what was said in the post actually happens in game. With everything else that needs to be changed in h5 its probably not even considered for testing. And its not even just the number of shots to kill that's being suggested to be changed, its also the range and magnetism of the gun. Basically I don't see it needing to be changed but if it is tested and works, then why not.

 

Also

 

 

 

But to push Halo 5 to the next level, the power items must spawn more frequently, and consequently the Magnum, the starting precision weapon, must be able to kill faster than it does currently

He's saying the magnum should kill faster because power items should spawn quicker and we all know if anything the timers for power weapons should increase

 

So should we really listen to what he's saying :lxthul: 

 

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4sk magnum would be too overpowered. It doesn't really have to do with kill times, it's just too easy to shoot to let it kill that fast. On top of that, imagine if they managed to fix the aiming.

Although a 4sk magnum could be great, i agree the aim assist needs to be toned down quite a bit

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FabE now just copying last years epsilon. Everyone saying they should stay but they're like na fuck that we're gonna split :lxthul:

edit: i think mose is now joking about it https://twitter.com/Mose_Luciano/status/849685027730468865

Despite having a tougher pool, supremacy won more games vs NA than fabE. They were formed to beat NA teams and they didn't have it. They should make a change. Epsilon was better than fabE. At least they beat renegades and gave CLG the secondest toughest series at worlds

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Frosty just said on stream that the new settings will be pretty much whatever the pros want, and he sounded pretty sure that ARs would be removed as a starting weapon.

I hope this is true. 343 finally letting us play the best settings is a good step in the right direction.

 

On the topic of the 4sk magnum how would people feel with DMR starts? Maybe not the current DMR in game but what if for H6 they made a DMR similar to Reach's and made that the starting weapon. I personally think the magnum is fine but if people think it's underpowered that could be a good compromise.

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Looks like Predevonator is taking Trippy's place on Naded's team.

Poop. Was hoping Cryptic would stay together.

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Despite having a tougher pool, supremacy won more games vs NA than fabE. They were formed to beat NA teams and they didn't have it. They should make a change. Epsilon was better than fabE. At least they beat renegades and gave CLG the secondest toughest series at worlds

I have to disagree, they have consistently beat supremacy when they have played them and had very little practice leading up to worlds.  Sure supremacy took one extra game from NA teams (One of which was the first of the tournament against Optic) but in terms of really pushing an NA team in a whole series i think FabE did a better job against str8 than supremacy against any other NA team.

 

Im not down playing supremacy by any means they are a good team but i think the major difference between last years Epsilon and FabE is the evolution of how the game is played.  The overall pace of the game was much slower at last years worlds which suited the Eu teams more.  Unfortunately the playstyle in NA evolved a lot more than in EU with the pace of games being the biggest change.

 

I loved the Epsilon squad but i remember watching a scrim on Jimbo's stream after worlds before they split and Jimbo was trying to argue to change their playstyle to a more rotation based one (in a strongholds game on plaza i think) and snipedrone was basically saying they didnt need to change as what they were doing already worked.  

 

Personally i think they would be better staying as a team and working on their playstyle, they have 4 of the top 5 or 6 players in EU on their team, two of which are still relatively inexperienced against NA.  As symbolic said, they have a really high skill ceiling and i dont think making any changes is going to raise that.  

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Sometimes I think many of these pros just name setting changes because they hope this will be their way to weaken Optic.

 

It'll be interesting to see if it will be roving grounds radar or no radar. I'll stick with my opinion that no radar demands even more changes to the sandbox (which I wouldn't like besides a small auto nerf)

 

But it'll be interesting to watch whatever happens, my desire to play the game has vanished, there is nothing for me to play for and the fun is gone, I went back to Destiny(which I hated for a long time) cause of the announced sequel

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Since people like to talk about how casual spectators would be confused if the game was too different, I would say that the proving grounds radar would be more confusing for them. A radar that sometimes shows people and sometimes doesn't is more difficult to understand than having no radar at all.

 

 

People also say that you would have to make more radical changes in the sandbox for no radar to work but it seems to me like those changes (stuff like no auto starts and fewer autos and cheap power weapons on the map) are better for the game anyway.

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Since people like to talk about how casual spectators would be confused if the game was too different, I would say that the proving grounds radar would be more confusing for them. A radar that sometimes shows people and sometimes doesn't is more difficult to understand than having no radar at all.

 

 

People also say that you would have to make more radical changes in the sandbox for no radar to work but it seems to me like those changes (stuff like no auto starts and fewer autos and cheap power weapons on the map) are better for the game anyway.

Totally agree with your second point. Less so with the first. It might confuse people, but then again Call of Duty uses a mini-map that shows opposing players if they shoot an unsilenced weapon. Counter Strike shows players if a player even catches the slightest glimpse of an opponent. I think it's doable, but then again, I'm all for removing radar completely. I think radar in competitive Halo is pathetic.

 

My one question is this, and it's a legit one too. Do you (anyone reading) actually watch a player's radar while you're watching the Twitch stream? I don't know if it just doesn't occur to me to do it, but I'm focused on the other plays going on on-screen and don't find myself looking at radar much. 

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My one question is this, and it's a legit one too. Do you (anyone reading) actually watch a player's radar while you're watching the Twitch stream? I don't know if it just doesn't occur to me to do it, but I'm focused on the other plays going on on-screen and don't find myself looking at radar much. 

Good point, i dont think i have ever looked at a players radar when they are streaming, i tend to scan the screen to see if i can catch sight of people, which is of course what you would do without radar anyway.

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Despite having a tougher pool, supremacy won more games vs NA than fabE. They were formed to beat NA teams and they didn't have it. They should make a change. Epsilon was better than fabE. At least they beat renegades and gave CLG the secondest toughest series at worlds

Supremacy and FabE both won 2 games vs NA

Supremacy- 1 vs OpTic, 1 vs CP

FabE - 1 vs Str8, 1 vs Splyce

 

Epsilon beat Cloud 9 last worlds. Cloud 9 was Danoxide, Hysteria, Assault, Cloud.

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I hope this is true. 343 finally letting us play the best settings is a good step in the right direction.

 

On the topic of the 4sk magnum how would people feel with DMR starts? Maybe not the current DMR in game but what if for H6 they made a DMR similar to Reach's and made that the starting weapon. I personally think the magnum is fine but if people think it's underpowered that could be a good compromise.

 

i dont think that the magnum is underpowered; its just that autos are overpowered. amping magnum to 4sk i think is just to compensate for ARs being OP. as to the dmr, i like that weapon and wouldnt mind seeing it tested on start. its stronger than the magnum but not as assisted as the br

 

I wish people would stop pretending that 1) 'casual viewers' are morons and 2) viewers need to immediately understand every nuance of a game for it to be an enjoyable spectator sport

 

i completely agree with this. i've gotten into watching LoL. i've never played so it was hard to follow at first but i'm enjoying learning the game as i watch. it feels really fun figuring the game out as i continue to watch

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Apropo unified settings.

 

I really liked that idea of "ranked chip" the first titanfall did. You could just turn on the chip, ranks would show up and the game would match you with the likes using the same settings and same playlist. Maybe this could work in Halo too...if we had good unified settings ofc. Just an idea.

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He's saying the magnum should kill faster because power items should spawn quicker and we all know if anything the timers for power weapons should increase

 

So should we really listen to what he's saying :lxthul:

 

So what's the problem here? You didn't exactly explain your issue with faster power weapon spawns, so you need to go deeper. Let me explain.

 

Power weapon spawns on fast timers are what provide the fast paced games in CE. Not only does this give multiple opportunities for comebacks with the losing team, but it discourages camping and attempting to slow down the game for more than a minute, rather encouraging constant map cycling and repositioning. Matches that don't even end at the given kill limit are inherently slow games that were given no reason to speed up because halo 5 rewards crawling at a snail's pace for slayer if you're down. In a pro CE match, you will never see a game end by time for a good reason.

 

In response to that, the pistol should be made stronger so it can still keep up with all the power weapons and for a bunch of other reasons, like actually keeping up with the many easier and more powerful precision weapons in halo 5 with this tiered sandbox. It should never be that easy to think about dropping your utility weapon unless you have a pre-planned strategy in mind.

 

To be fair, this sort of implementation would only work if the base pistol was actually hard to use. Currently, the magnum can't be made harder because all the other precision weapons are easier, have more range, and can even kill faster (light rifle). It's only difficult relative to the sandbox surrounding it, so 343 can't make it more skillful to use without buffing damage to compensate. But the moment you attempt to remove some of those influences with raw magnum gameplay and especially without Spartan ability movement is when the true ease of use with this weapon is seen. Lots of things would have to be adjusted unfortunately, so I understand what you're saying.

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I wish people would stop pretending that 1) 'casual viewers' are morons and 2) viewers need to immediately understand every nuance of a game for it to be an enjoyable spectator sport

I completely agree. however, it seems like a decent amount of people feel that way and if they do I'm hoping they'll go for no radar if they feel like the current radar needs a change

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So what's the problem here? You didn't exactly explain your issue with faster power weapon spawns, so you need to go deeper. Let me explain.

 

Power weapon spawns on fast timers are what provide the fast paced games in CE. Not only does this give multiple opportunities for comebacks with the losing team, but it discourages camping and attempting to slow down the game for more than a minute, rather encouraging constant map cycling and repositioning. Matches that don't even end at the given kill limit are inherently slow games that were given no reason to speed up because halo 5 rewards crawling at a snail's pace for slayer if you're down. In a pro CE match, you will never see a game end by time for a good reason.

 

In response to that, the pistol should be made stronger so it can still keep up with all the power weapons and for a bunch of other reasons, like actually keeping up with the many easier and more powerful precision weapons in halo 5 with this tiered sandbox. It should never be that easy to think about dropping your utility weapon unless you have a pre-planned strategy in mind.

 

To be fair, this sort of implementation would only work if the base pistol was actually hard to use. Currently, the magnum can't be made harder because all the other precision weapons are easier, have more range, and can even kill faster (light rifle). It's only difficult relative to the sandbox surrounding it, so 343 can't make it more skillful to use without buffing damage to compensate. But the moment you attempt to remove some of those influences with raw magnum gameplay and especially without Spartan ability movement is when the true ease of use with this weapon is seen. Lots of things would have to be adjusted unfortunately, so I understand what you're saying.

 

we already have situations where where a team is able to get 2 snipers and the game snowballs wildly. the power weapons we have are so easy now that putting them on a fat timer will basically lead to multiple t2 combos on the map at once which is no a very competitive game to watch imo. i also dont think that amping weapons to compete with power weapons on a quick timer is the answer either. all we are doing is just increasing ease of use in one aspect to counter ease of use in another.

 

i think first step is to make the power weapons harder to use. sniper magnetism and hitboxes are way too easy for a competitive game. remove AR starts and make them the only auto pick ups if autos must remain on map. if they have to be there, nerf them so the dont kill faster than the pistol. decrease sniper magnetism (i'd prefer projectile vs hit scan, but i dont know how hard that would be to change right now) and decrease headshot hit boxes. then lets test and see if magnums are still underpowered. honestly, they are ok but after these changes maybe it shows the pistol as too easy as well like you mentioned

 

i think these could work without having to retool  the other aspects of the game first, though once you make some aspects more skillful, the ease of others (spartan charge like you said and splinters and radar) become more glaringly out of place

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I wish people would stop pretending that 1) 'casual viewers' are morons and 2) viewers need to immediately understand every nuance of a game for it to be an enjoyable spectator sport

When I started watching CSGO I was completely clueless about almost everything in the game but it was still entertaining because a game of Attackers vs Defenders is a simple concept that anyone can follow. On the surface the game is simple but once you start going deeper than that the game is amazingly complex.

 

343 shouldnt be worried about the viewer understanding the game on a deep level as long as they understand what's going on. Which is why they shouldnt be taken into account when it comes to making changes like radar.

 

Then there's LoL

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we already have situations where where a team is able to get 2 snipers and the game snowballs wildly. the power weapons we have are so easy now that putting them on a fat timer will basically lead to multiple t2 combos on the map at once which is no a very competitive game to watch imo. i also dont think that amping weapons to compete with power weapons on a quick timer is the answer either. all we are doing is just increasing ease of use in one aspect to counter ease of use in another.

 

i think first step is to make the power weapons harder to use. sniper magnetism and hitboxes are way too easy for a competitive game. remove AR starts and make them the only auto pick ups if autos must remain on map. if they have to be there, nerf them so the dont kill faster than the pistol. decrease sniper magnetism (i'd prefer projectile vs hit scan, but i dont know how hard that would be to change right now) and decrease headshot hit boxes. then lets test and see if magnums are still underpowered. honestly, they are ok but after these changes maybe it shows the pistol as too easy as well like you mentioned

 

i think these could work without having to retool the other aspects of the game first, though once you make some aspects more skillful, the ease of others (spartan charge like you said and splinters and radar) become more glaringly out of place

Of course, these changes I have proposed are based on the sandbox of CE, which literally didn't treat the sniper as a power weapon in the same matter as rockets, due to its inherent difficulty. This game, in particular, relies on some of the most horrific balance to prevent the entire game from collapsing if it hasn't already.

 

It isn't just the matter of responding to faster power weapon spawns, but a whole bunch of other issues that a 4sk magnum can counter. Case in point: escapability. The game heavily forgives players put out of position due to thrusting around corners. Rarely does punishment ever occur without team shooting, which removes the individual skill for consistent kills on the enemy team. Nerfing the power weapons doesn't do anything to the tiered upgrades in precision weapons, like the relationship between a pistol and DMR. I do agree with your suggestions though.

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So what's the problem here? You didn't exactly explain your issue with faster power weapon spawns, so you need to go deeper. Let me explain.

 

Power weapon spawns on fast timers are what provide the fast paced games in CE. Not only does this give multiple opportunities for comebacks with the losing team, but it discourages camping and attempting to slow down the game for more than a minute, rather encouraging constant map cycling and repositioning. Matches that don't even end at the given kill limit are inherently slow games that were given no reason to speed up because halo 5 rewards crawling at a snail's pace for slayer if you're down. In a pro CE match, you will never see a game end by time for a good reason.

 

In response to that, the pistol should be made stronger so it can still keep up with all the power weapons and for a bunch of other reasons, like actually keeping up with the many easier and more powerful precision weapons in halo 5 with this tiered sandbox. It should never be that easy to think about dropping your utility weapon unless you have a pre-planned strategy in mind.

 

To be fair, this sort of implementation would only work if the base pistol was actually hard to use. Currently, the magnum can't be made harder because all the other precision weapons are easier, have more range, and can even kill faster (light rifle). It's only difficult relative to the sandbox surrounding it, so 343 can't make it more skillful to use without buffing damage to compensate. But the moment you attempt to remove some of those influences with raw magnum gameplay and especially without Spartan ability movement is when the true ease of use with this weapon is seen. Lots of things would have to be adjusted unfortunately, so I understand what you're saying.

my bad. I guess I assumed that everyone knows/thinks that power weapons shouldn't spawn faster because they are so easily to use in h5 and are basically free kills (it was meant as kind of a joke). Even though there are some games that go to time and having faster weapon spawns may fix this, it also brings up another problem in the opposite direction. Faster weapon spawns mean that a team in control can stay in control for longer and really dominate a team. We even see it now where teams with control of weapons can go on a streak (eg. Cryptic vs ALG where Cryptic went something like 30-4 with weapons). So I think that faster weapon spawns would only increase this and it is more likely to see teams win 50-10 or similar
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