Jump to content
CyReN

HCS Pro League Summer 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

Recommended Posts

I've had plenty of discussion with infinity. We agree on much of it, disagree on some details.

 

I think there needs to be a ton of care when it comes to guiding casuals to the light. - More care than a 'cold turkey' approach allows. You don't want to turn them off completely as they are the franchises money maker. Gotta remember that 'halo' means different things to different people, and the key to success has always been an ability to cater to everyone. I think Infinity and I disagree on whether or not that's still possible or worth it. I think not doing it is self-defeating. Personally, I think it's possible to cater to all, while simultaneous shifting everyone's affinity towards a competitively sound base.

 

I don't think Team Arenas "highish" population is a sign that universal settings has done its job... because it's job should be getting the majority of the 4v4 population playing competively sound halo ... and currently 0% are playing competively sound halo.

 

 

If mlg used team objective in h3 the tournament playlist, would we be arguing that approach would have "done the job" simply because more people would be playing on settings that are arbitrarily deemed competive? Because thats essentially what happened with team arena.

I agree, team arena is the only ranked playlist with objective gametypes so its difficult to compare this to past mlg playlists.  

 

In theory universal settings is great and works really well in MOBA's like DOTA 2 and LoL but is much less common in FPS games.  Is CSGO the only major FPS with universal settings?  

 

Halo is a completely different beast though.  It has a history and fanbase built around a variety of settings and gametypes, many of which have groups that play said gametypes almost exclusively.  For me this has always been one of halos strengths and why it has had a number of thriving sub-communities in the past, the competitive scene being one of them.  H5 pretty much screwed over many of these communities in one way or another with many niche/fan favourite playlists missing at launch or clearly low priority even when it did come in (BTB) or high priority playlists not giving the scene what they/we want (the comp scene).  Of all past halos, H5 probably needs the greatest number of tweaks to get the best competitive settings which is far from what 343 initially intended but if done right the divide between the casual and comp scenes doesnt need to be that wide, CE is a good example of this in some respects.

 

Properly tuned autos can be in comp play, the CE AR is an effective weapon but can be outplayed by a skillful mag user, even at very close range.  Over longer ranges though is usefulness drops away fast as it should.  In H5 we have a ridiculously accurate AR with a perfect TTK comparable to the 'utility weapon' even at mid range.

 

Radar will always be the biggest change needed for comp halo from casual halo.  Its far to ingrained as a staple for the majority of the player base but needs to be removed/heavily changed for good comp settings.  This needn't be a major issue though if the rest of the game is done right.

 

People have been doing that with every release, when 2 came out they wanted CE when Reach came out they wanted 3. The only exception obviously being with Halo 4, nobody wants that shit back

Man, i hated H2 when it first came out.  Played a few times after launch then stopped for a couple months before going back in to give it another shot.  Eventually i grew to love it, although CE will always be 'my' halo

Share this post


Link to post

In theory universal settings is great and works really well in MOBA's like DOTA 2 and LoL but is much less common in FPS games.  Is CSGO the only major FPS with universal settings? 

CS, OW, Quake, UT.

 

EDIT; doesn't really take away from your overall point but there is no room to argue that FPS somehow would not work as well with universal settings, it does and it is beneficial. As you say, historically Halo is a different beast.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

What the hell is the point of "teasing" it? Just post it.

 

im glad he's bringing it here. the tease lets everyone know it'll be a good post by an informed person. i like it

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

New SCUF PS4 controller that is almost a straight replica of the 360 controller looks BEAST!

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

It's too bad MCC was a piece of garbage, and the pros were shoe horned into H2A. I would of been completely fine with watching the Pro's play H1-H3 for the last 3 years, so that 343 could of released a full featured fully functional Halo 5. 

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

yeahhhhh playing people cross country on H3 MCC is bruuu bruutal

Yeah playing NA to2 on MCC CE can be pretty infuriating as well lol

Share this post


Link to post

CS doesn't have universal settings? CS:GO casual completely different than competitive. 

CS competitive is the core experience. It's like saying Quake / UT isn't universal because people can play instagib.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

CS, OW, Quake, UT.

 

EDIT; doesn't really take away from your overall point but there is no room to argue that FPS somehow would not work as well with universal settings, it does and it is beneficial. As you say, historically Halo is a different beast.

 

The thing is, some people may argue (Jamaican did before I finished this post) that CS does not have the same casual settings as the competitive. Because if you look at official matchmaking, there is a section named casual that is completely different from competitive. 

 

But everyone that plays CS plays the competitive settings because thats how the game is intended to play and "everyone" thinks it's the most fun. Even the most casual players play that, because it's fun. People are drawn to that game because of the competitiveness that is fun. Not because of something else. So therefor you could say that the casual are the same as the competitive even though there are other casual settings in the game. And different types of game modes all together.

 

EDIT: Like careh said above. It's the core experience.

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks, had forgotten about Quake and UT but didnt realise Overwatch had the same settings

 

overwatch's settings are the competitive settings. characters play the same no matter the playlist. quick play has shorter objectives (no switching between attack and defence) and arcade can affect who is on the map (more than one of each hero or the game chooses for you) but in the end the gunplay and movement is the same

Share this post


Link to post

CS competitive is the core experience. It's like saying Quake / UT isn't universal because people can play instagib.

 

definitely. with halo now, social is the core experience which is unfortunate for a game that is well known for its competitive merit

Share this post


Link to post

overwatch's settings are the competitive settings. characters play the same no matter the playlist. quick play has shorter objectives (no switching between attack and defence) and arcade can affect who is on the map (more than one of each hero or the game chooses for you) but in the end the gunplay and movement is the same

I think this is the key, halo could easily have the same basic movement and gunplay if designed right.  Radar would prob be the only thing that really needs to change.

Share this post


Link to post

yeahhhhh playing people cross country on H3 MCC is bruuu bruutal

Almost as brutal as playing H5 with heavy aim against a To4 champs with plats on your team. Okay so almost as brutal as playing H5.
  • Upvote (+1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

CS, OW, Quake, UT.

 

EDIT; doesn't really take away from your overall point but there is no room to argue that FPS somehow would not work as well with universal settings, it does and it is beneficial. As you say, historically Halo is a different beast.

 

Yeah.  I think trying to use the success of "universality" in other games is foolish for Halo.  In fact, I would argue that this "universality" of almost  any other game is an illusion.  The closest games are CS and Starcraft, and CS is the only one that is currently seeing a lot of success.  

 

Here is my case for that claim:  The heroes in Overwatch always play the same sure... but there are 24 of them with more on the way.  In Overwatch, if the player wants a different experience they can literally just flip characters on the fly and change how they play the game within the same playlist.  This is the same story for MOBA's too.  Players in those game despite the lack of actual settings differences, still have all the tools they need to give themselves the unique experience they are looking for.  That's NOT universal and a totally different system than the experience that Halo provides.

 

In Halo that isn't an option.  Halo is a totally different beast.  If players want a different experience in Halo they can't just switch characters mid-game (nor should they ever be able to. thats not the argument i am making lol.)  And yet, there is an expectation of variety that comes with Halo that makes trying to compromise all over the place a bad idea.  Halo has always been a one-stop-shop that can provide you with a variety of different experiences.  its one of its main draws and the best and only way to really accomplish that is through a spectrum of various settings and playlists.

 

Coming up with good default settings as a standard experience that most people can play right away and have fun with is absolutely necessary. BUT being afraid to deviate from the default to provide varied experiences is, to me, very un-Halo like and not something that is in the best interest of the franchise or players. Edit:  The fear of doing this i actually see as insulting to the intelligence of the people playing and watching the game.

  • Upvote (+1) 5

Share this post


Link to post

Its the spin up time and tracking that gets me. It feels wrong. Id rather have that weapon do decent damage with no spin up time or tracking but the same projectile type/speed.

No weapon that actually tracks should be anywhere near comp settings IMO.

 

But with H5, I guess that means removing the sniper too  :simms:

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.