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HCS/HWC Constructive Feedback, Criticism, and Ideas

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The goal of this thread is to be a place where we can post contructive feedback, criticism, and ideas about the Halo Championship Series/Halo World Championships, individual tournaments, and Halo settings/gameplay so that we can foster conversation with those who are in charge or have some influences on these areas. Hopefully this can be a place where news can be shared and commented upon, ideas can be discussed, and constructive feedback be heard in a way that promotes a dialog and inspires community driven change in these areas.

 

As players and viewers post here, we would love to also interact with people such as :@@Deez, @@Tsquared, @@Elamite, @@Chig, @@Neighbor, @@GH057ayame, @@Sal1ent, @@ske7ch, @@Timo, @@Vivi, @@Tashi, @@TheSimms, @@Onset, @@Wonderboy, @@UGCevents, @@PROVERB, @@Phade, and others. We will try our best to keep this place thoughtful and positive if you guys will help keep the conversation flowing so we can break the barrier that seems to exist between us.

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Maybe show old Halo montages during downtime, but please, anything but HW2 ads and that WZ spectacular or whatever it's called.

 

Also, settings, but I'm sure nothing major is gonna happen for this game.

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1) B stream is essential. It will instantly improve your presentation 10 fold, even if that streams production value is much lower (no commentary, single pov or whatever). It's also useful for relaying schedule and bracket info during downtime. Its DEFINATELY worth the investment, and frankly any venue worth aspirations of doing big tourneys needs to have the capability.

 

2) i know you mentioned it, but Bracket updates need to be much more responsive. Also, it would be nice to have an ESPN style score ticker that provides updates while the Analysts Desk is on air.

 

3) I doubt you have much say in this, but tournament formatting is the number one thing affecting the stream. Its the reason friday is so boring. Its the reason streams run so long thanks to the unpredictability of series length. Its also the reason few people bother watching the online cups.

 

Someone needs to talk 343 into going to a points based pool format. Invite the top 12 teams in points (likely 8 pros 4 ams) to pool play on friday. This would allow friday to adhere to a strict schedule. It would have top tier competition. And You could use any extra downtime to broadcast any key open matches from the feature station.

 

You could zip through the AM bracket without having to hold matches for the stream. And you could have pool play done in time to show the AM bracket winding down to the final 4.

 

This would also make online cups more interesting as teams are trying to compete to make pools so they can skip the open bracket.

 

Like i said, i know this is all on 343, but TOs need to stess how much better this would be for competition and production quality.

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1) Crowd mic - the crowd turned up because in spite of the mic / levels you could still hear them at points. Super important to get this sorted for Worlds where people will be tuning in for the prestige alone. Just in terms of the production of the game this was really the only thing that was obviously lacking.

 

2) Video Content between series - the content between series be it adverts, interviews, montages etc is very time consuming to make and honestly doesn't get appreciated. At least for the breaks please just concentrate on creating a high quality succinct countdown page - here's the example from Katowice, so much effort saved. Information which would be great to know:

  • Countdown to the next game
  • Who's playing
  • What's the local time (for people looking up the local schedule irrespective of their location)
  • Sponsors (always nice)
  • A bracket would also be absolutely sick   

If you have relevant content such as interviews etc please just use it during the analysis segments and if you've got ads you want to play just put them once before you're coming back / going out rather than repeating them. If you do want to use random community clips and shit put out the resources (non-copyright music specifically) and ask the community to make you something, that way you'll get something culturally relevant and community centered e.g.

 

 

3) Stream all matches in some capacity - even if it's through an individual player player perspective make sure that every game can be accessed in some form. For secondary streams there doesn't need to be casting, there doesn't need production really.

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Downtime:

 

The aim during downtime should be to satisfy sponsors and sustain viewership during breaks. The key is to show content that viewers actually want to see. I'm sure some viewers appreciated Warzone and HW2 ads, but it should be clear that they've overstayed their welcome. Same with Forge showcases. Im not saying those things shouldn't be shown at all, but we really have to consider that the audience primarily came to consume competitive halo.

 

343 really needs to either work on some high quality content or work with the community to help create this content.

 

 

343 should be foaming at the mouth to get these kinds of videos into their rotation. I won't turn this into a thread about how 343 should be looking to partner with and promote Team Beyond at every turn (they should) but they desperately need to secure this type of content regularly.

 

It's a shame spectator data can't be uploaded from Matches that happen on LAN, because I think some talented folks from the community could do wonders with it in between events. Imagine seeing an awesome play at STL, and then reliving it and seeing it broken down Beyond Rewind style at Vegas.

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Please reserve all game settings discussion for this thread.

 

As for event/esports feedback, we'll leave this thread open, but everything they need to know has been said before, in my opinion.

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So 343 has to show ads. Nobody will dispute that. The key is to be tactful in their use. In broad terms this means never playing a bunch in a row, make a remotely decent attempt at variety, and NEVER use them to fill time. Strategically plan out how many, which ad, and after what series or discussion it will be played. This is something that seems extremely intuitive for viewer retention and yet it's totally ignored. They bomb viewers with the same ads back to back to back sometimes for extended amounts of time multiple broadcasts in a row. It's actually an unacceptable tragedy and I would be shocked if anyone put any thought forth regarding this. I shouldn't walk away from my desk bearing ill will towards whatever brand they were attempting to promote because they beat me over the head with it for hours. Which brings me back to the last guideline to never use them simply to fill for time. We know about HW2 because you just showed me 15 mins ago. Quit being obnoxious.

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Maybe show old Halo montages during downtime

Would love to do this and it has been brought up/tried before. Issue with showing these and other peoples content is copyright, we simply are not allowed to do it due to music/content distribution rights :(
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I think a good idea for break content would be to take the clips from pros that they take in game of them getting an over kill +. This way it promotes the current game and highlights the pros that are playing at the event. I'm sure the pros would be fine with letting 343 use their clips. The current montages are good, but we've seen them a lot already

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Please reserve all game settings discussion for this thread.

 

As for event/esports feedback, we'll leave this thread open, but everything they need to know has been said before, in my opinion.

 

it definitely has but everytime someone comes in talking about us not being constructive enough, the usually seem like they're looking for a living thread of well formed ideas. if the thread, lives then cool, maybe this will work. if it dies, at least its another place to point to and say we tried

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Would love to do this and it has been brought up/tried before. Issue with showing these and other peoples content is copyright, we simply are not allowed to do it due to music/content distribution rights :(

 

would it be an issue to have it muted or to ask microsoft for the license? it seems like it should be able to go up that chain

 

or what if we had a top 10 plays of ___? there is more than enough content to keep it current. for example friday worlds could be the top 10 of vegas/london/mexico city/anz. that way we get to know some of the players and teams. saturday could be friday's best plays and so on

 

even a highlight of a team. a couple minute spot on who Fabe is and a little about their roster. and that could be repeated for any team. i'd even like a caster spot. tell your story in a minute or 2 so we can get to know the people behind the desk. anything that gives a personally connection is awesome

 

same thing with the orgs. they could have something made for you about their history with halo and gaming. build the idea of the org as the team so that even with a roster change the loyalty remains. i know that is a bit of a stretch with the shortish history of orgs in halo and our love of rostermania, but something that allows the orgs to feel the investment is worth it by helping make fans of theam envy/optic/EG/whoever even though the roster has changed. again i know its a bit of a stretch, but anything that can build a personal investment is a good thing to me.

 

there are so many stories that can be told about halo and the people involved that it blows my mind that we watched the prelaunch ads of halo wars 2 and the same warzone montages on loop last weekend

 

i hope im not coming off as accusing you bc im not. you are the best advocate we have. thanks for listening and sticking with us

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I brought this up when Onset was asking for ideas but I've always wanted to see something along the lines of "Classic Moments in Halo History"

 

There have been a lot of well known plays, games, series, comebacks etc from the beginning of competitive Halo until now. I know MLG owns the rights to them but I get the feeling they wouldn't mind so much about the footage being used if someone asked politely.

 

Not only does it play on nostalgia which can be a powerful tool, it also allows newer viewers to be exposed to the moments a lot of long time fans talk and reminisce about.

 

Even just looking at Halo 3 you have things like the Goofy snipe on Pit slayer, Carbon beating Str8 3-0 (including on Amp TS a gametype Str8 had an insane record on), Snipedowns explosion to the top in 08 and whole lot I'm easily just glossing over.

 

You make a short 2-5 minute video on those with some backstory and maybe short interviews with the players involved (whoever you can get in contact with) and you have decent amount of content that isn't overly annoying to watch multiple times.

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More Beyond content, less "How to Forge a Pelican" during downtime.

 

Also, for event purposes, can we please take a look at GoW and how it introduces the team before the matches so somebody who isn't familiar with the game or hasn't kept up on every single team change or piece of info will know whats going on

for the content side of things I'm actually impressed with how Simms and Naded and other pros are taking YT more seriously. And Optic Halo on the Optic podcast was great. One thing I would love to see ESL do to contribute to this is create player profile videos like from the old MLG days. Example:



Stuff like this gives you context and history, and lets you get to know players on an individual level. The videos they did for Worlds last year were great; the video with Naded explaining his background was the best imo. Great showcase of the teams and the players.

This is just my thoughts on the matter right now
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Holmes doesn't work at 343 anymore.

Yeah he probably shouldn't be tagged in any of this..

 

However, I get a kick out of the fact that he has visited this cite more recently than other 343/ESL employees. Sorta enforces my point that it would be great to have someone here frequently to discuss the leagues and season.

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Yeah he probably shouldn't be tagged in any of this..

 

However, I get a kick out of the fact that he has visited this cite more recently than other 343/ESL employees. Sorta enforces my point that it would be great to have someone here frequently to discuss the leagues and season.

 

honestly i wasnt sure, so i tagged everyone who had logged in in the past 6-12 months just in case. but if he happens to see t and can pass along insight or a way to route this information to the right person, then its worth it to have him tagged

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I do think the biggest point mentioned in this thread so far is that 343 needs to be FAR more willing to iterate and evolve settings based on feedback and community sentiment. I know it can be hard since they have their own creative vision but it's important that we keep improving and making real positive changes at a rate that makes sense. Halo is the only game that takes more than a year to address glaring balancing issues in some form or another. The turn around time on everything is appallingly slow.

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Would love to do this and it has been brought up/tried before. Issue with showing these and other peoples content is copyright, we simply are not allowed to do it due to music/content distribution rights :(

Have you tried asking the montage creators for the content without the music?  

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Have you tried asking the montage creators for the content without the music?  

No but I think that takes away a good part of what a montage is about, for me at least the music with gameplay is a big thing.

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would it be an issue to have it muted or to ask microsoft for the license? it seems like it should be able to go up that chain

 

i hope im not coming off as accusing you bc im not. you are the best advocate we have. thanks for listening and sticking with us

Unfortunately it doesn't work like that on the top part, it comes down to copyrights and people owning their own content.

 

As for second part, no not at all :) Sorry was late to respond, I didn't get a notification that you quoted me?  :huh:

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No but I think that takes away a good part of what a montage is about, for me at least the music with gameplay is a big thing.

I agree although some of the music choices have been really questionable in the past .  Getting it without music gives you the option to put different, approved music back over it. 

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No but I think that takes away a good part of what a montage is about, for me at least the music with gameplay is a big thing.

 

i know this would take more time to produce, but i know that some tv shows (my wife likes dance moms :/ ) and they will place their music over whatever song is playing. its not nears as good bc the music syncing is awesome, but its better than nothing

 

Unfortunately it doesn't work like that on the top part, it comes down to copyrights and people owning their own content.

 

As for second part, no not at all :) Sorry was late to respond, I didn't get a notification that you quoted me?  :huh:

 

ah good. i was worried about that actually

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