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What new feature in Halo 5 would you keep in future Halo's and why?

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I think there's an argument that needs to be acknowledged and that is that Halo is not a game where you will always land a kill just because you spot someone. 

 

This is true across all of the titles... and is one of the main things that differentiates Halo from the MMS crowd.

 

So placing a guy one shot while he thrusts behind cover is essentially taking him out of the fight or making him play more cautiously, and without teammates, he's pretty much dead if he's in any sort of exposed area on the map or in a high-traffic area. 

 

That's why damage dealt is such a beautiful stat. Not only does it state that you are relatively positioned correctly, anticipating/reacting to spawns, and forcing pressure on the enemy team, but you're also slowing down or stymieing any sort of counter-push on behalf of the down team by forcing them into a 3v4 while one teammate on the other team regens shields and plays conservatively.  

 

If Halo was a 1v1 or 2v2 game like CE, I would agree with being able to punish somewhat poor positioning with a kill, since landing a kill is so much more important to the flow of the game. But the act of just placing damage on someone, even if it does not end in a kill, is a staple of Arena Shooters as a whole and is integral in controlling the flow of the game in a 4v4 setting.

 

If I can draw an example, in a 2v2, landing a kill is almost a guaranteed map advantage. There's only so much 1 player can do to stop 2 people from moving around the map freely at that point without some sort of weapon/powerup advantage. In a 4v4 environment with 1 teammate down, 3 players can still teamshot and coordinate around the downed player to even out the possible teamwork from the enemy team. Yes, there's an advantage, but it's not as drastic as it is in a 2v2 since killing a player in a 2v2 removes any and all teamwork from being possible to the down team.  

 

We can argue semantics about what is and isn't proper positioning in a Halo game, but that is in and of itself related to the sandbox and design of the Halo game in question and cannot be generalized across all titles except for unique situations like forcing isolation to make a 2v1 a 1v1. 

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We agree on that. My only point of contention is this free pass people want to give thrust like its never a get out of jail free card for when you're caught straight up unaware. Like suddenly it's not a bad play being covered up anymore. You don't even have to compare it to other games. Play a custom in H5 and turn off the damn thruster and see how many more times you get the kill before they get around the corner. I promise it will be significantly more.

 

Does that mean I think thrust is a garbage mechanic? No. I like a lot of what it brings to the table. I'd definitely tweak some things about it, but I don't hate it. It's just that this effect we've been discussing that thruster has on the game is undeniable to any rational person. It DOES erase mistakes. Several a game, quite frankly. To try to spin it as something else is to be deliberately obtuse about it.

 

Regarding how it relates to Teleport in SR, it's far easier to forgive Teleport for escaping fights bc the whole game is designed around it. The maps, the other abilities, the mana pool, race traits, everything factors into how it's balanced and how players must deal with it. Whereas in Halo, we already had this baseline for how the game should play, and then just added thrust to it. There are no counters to it like AM Gens other than just using it yourself. There are no assymettric qualities to it like race traits. The maps do account for it, but the result is either bloated maps with a lot of dead space (Truth) or chopped up sight lines where the only way to finish the kill is to either pinch or close the gap (Empire). And the biggest one, you can't just teleport through one wall and get all your health back in a couple seconds. You need a tree, or if you're Elf you need full mana before you regen. Maybe if thrust put your shield recharge on cooldown like sprint does it'd be a different story.

 

Gotcha. Yeah I feel thrust is used in both ways mentioned in this thread, where it's easy to thrust behind cover at the first sight of a disadvantage as well as used to close the distance on a player who is trying to avoid you. From my time playing this game and watching the HCS, I would say the high majority of times people are not peaking corners then thrusting away because they're exposed. I find that people rotate and collapse so fast that playing defensively like that does very little for the team unless you are simply trying to stay alive since you are down by numbers.

 

I strongly feel that the % of time people use thrust defensively vs offensively relates to the overall skill level of the teams playing. This has little to do with individual skill, but more so the team work required to literally soar across the map and play the numbers game from different areas.

 

At lower levels, even high diamond and onyx, I think you'll see it used more defensively but from a higher team skill standpoint I rarely see it used like that.

 

I'm all for a rework though.

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I'd keep thruster, and ground pound.

 

Thruster doesn't need sprint to thrive in, and it adds another layer of combat. Ground pound is a great situational tool to use, but completely remove aim assist when starting a ground pound. 

 

I'd remove everything else, but mainly spartan charge and sprint. 

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60fps performance target. Keep that and make it consistent.

Shouldn't even be considered a feature.  It's an industry best standard that should just be met because it's a triple A shooter from  a "Triple A Dev"...

 

I'd say, keep the server browser and improve on it.  Best 'feature' to come out of H5 IMO and it still needs a lot of improvement.

 

Fuck thrust,

Fuck sprint, 

Fuck all those dumb abilities. 

 

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The best possible answer to all your problems is the Br..... it makes the most sense and it is than yea... We love it

I'm Cringing at the thought of the H5 br being the starting weapon.

 

BR starts was always a bandaid for shitty sandbox decisions.

 

Just fix the magnum.

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It really was a good fix for bad decision... making... Lol

No, it was just much better than what h2 launched with. But that's not saying much, because H2 was horrendous at launch.

 

They should have just fixed the magnum back then, too.

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I'm Cringing at the thought of the H5 br being the starting weapon.

 

BR starts was always a bandaid for shitty sandbox decisions.

 

Just fix the magnum.

To say that Halo 5 would be a much better game if it had BR starts is an understatement.
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To say that Halo 5 would be a much better game if it had BR starts is an understatement.

What does giving everyone this easy ass gun improve? You are just trading one problem for another.

 

They are better off taking all rifles Arena maps.

 

They tried BR starts in the beta, and it was all sorts of shitty.

 

The issue is with the current magnum is that off spawn, players can't compete with folks who have upgraded to rifles because the rifles are too damn easy in comparison. The individual is not powerful enough.

 

The aim assist,magnetism, and range on the BR makes strafing an act of futility. And even if you do survive, you get crossmapped by another player wielding a BR.

The individual is not powerful enough.

 

Now you give everyone a BR. The strafe is completely neutered, and everyone's crossmapping and team shotting all the time. No room for individual skill to shine at all. If you thought SAs and Radar make the game too defensive now, wait till that is coupled with BR starts.

 

Seriously, just fix the magnum. Let it be a utility weapon. Let the rifles fill a niche, instead of being upgraded pistols.

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What does giving everyone this easy ass gun improve? You are just trading one problem for another.

 

They are better off taking all rifles Arena maps.

 

They tried BR starts in the beta, and it was all sorts of shitty.

 

The issue is with the current magnum is that off spawn, players can't compete with folks who have upgraded to rifles because the rifles are too damn easy in comparison. The individual is not powerful enough.

 

The aim assist,magnetism, and range on the BR makes strafing an act of futility. And even if you do survive, you get crossmapped by another player wielding a BR.

The individual is not powerful enough.

 

Now you give everyone a BR. The strafe is completely neutered, and everyone's crossmapping and team shotting all the time. No room for individual skill to shine at all. If you thought SAs and Radar make the game too defensive now, wait till that is coupled with BR starts.

 

Seriously, just fix the magnum. Let it be a utility weapon. Let the rifles fill a niche, instead of being upgraded pistols.

That's not the only problem. The pistol is also way underpowered vs autos, tier 2 weapons and Pws. Oh, and against player health and movement as well.

 

So essentially every single thing in the game.

 

Oh. It's well balanced against the default Boltshot and suppressor. So, there's that.

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That's not the only problem. The pistol is also way underpowered vs autos, tier 2 weapons and Pws. Oh, and against player health and movement as well.

 

So essentially every single thing in the game.

 

Oh. It's well balanced against the default Boltshot and suppressor. So, there's that.

Lol well yea, they just need to fix the magnum.

 

I could get into autos and all that, but not without mentioning the fact that the magnum dominates the killfeed despite ARs also being starting weapons. I'd like to see some nerfs, but I honestly feel like no radar + a better magnum would be a big help to the auto problem.

 

But you're absolutely right, current magnum doesn't suit it's place in the sandbox, and just about every gun has a more effective ease:power ratio.

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I honestly love the whole thruster aspect of the game it makes gun fights more challenging and aquires more skill imo. (Besides spraying with ARs or whatever)

 

& I like the sprint in Halo. Obviously that's not a NEW feature but as much as I loved H2 and 3, I think sprinting add a more exiting element to the game.

 

Oh and clamber just because lol.

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I thought long and hard about this, and the only ability I'd consider keeping for a future Halo title is stabilizers. It's completely situational and gives the player a few more seconds of hang time, which could lead to some interesting plays. Not to mention that aiming while stabilizing is not easy. There's really no negatives to it that I can think of (unlike thrust).

 

I would keep slide too, but I don't see how it would fit into a non-sprint Halo. It would seem awkward and out of place.

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No, it was just much better than what h2 launched with. But that's not saying much, because H2 was horrendous at launch.

 

They should have just fixed the magnum back then, too.

THE h2 pistol was it... The best part of it was the reticle of it ... practically easy all the time... too bad the be was so transfixed we needed a h3 be then Lol...

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I thought long and hard about this, and the only ability I'd consider keeping for a future Halo title is stabilizers. It's completely situational and gives the player a few more seconds of hang time, which could lead to some interesting plays. Not to mention that aiming while stabilizing is not easy. There's really no negatives to it that I can think of (unlike thrust).

 

I would keep slide too, but I don't see how it would fit into a non-sprint Halo. It would seem awkward and out of place.

Slide could be engaged after having stick pegged for 2 secs maybe ? or prefferebly for me only done after thrusting, personally I dont think thrust is that much of a problem but I think it should be toned down slightly and with a longer cooldown period.

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I think sustained walking forward should allow you to build speed automatically. Then we could still have slide and some special by-design jumps.

 

Anyone ever play Splinter Cell Chaos Theory multiplayer? As the spies you could do Co Op jumps that would get you into unique places but required both players. I'm not calling for co op jumps, but I like the idea of special, high risk jumps. That's why I don't mind keeping clamber, but I think they should be context specific (like only certain ledges can be clambered) and should take a long time to finish the animation.

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Get rid of sprint, but everything else can be streamlined into the thrust system.

 

Thrust runs off a single use, rechargeable meter. It's spent everytime the thruster is used.

Tapping thrust works as normal, except the thruster acts more like it's Halo 4 counterpart.

Double tapping jump is a double jump (replaces clambor)

Holding thrust midair gives air control and a slowed descent. (Replaces stablize)

Thrust plus crouch allows you slide.

Spartan Charge and Ground Pound are combined into one, activated by pressing melee and thrust. (Heavily retooled in functionality however)

A 3rd person, visual indication that a players thruster is on cooldown.

 

My new thrust system applies fighting game elements, and streamlines the system somewhat. Players also can no longer spam every ability at once. Pick and choose what ability you need for that moment.

 

 

 

 

Or we could just go back to traditional movement, and avoid all this unnecessary crap. But if we're gonna have this parkour master crap, we might as well streamline it.

Going back to traditional, ten year old movement systems doesn't evolve Halo. However, it would invite players back to the series. I see that point. 

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Going back to traditional, ten year old movement systems doesn't evolve Halo. However, it would invite players back to the series. I see that point. 

 

Halo doesnt need to evolve. It needs to be different. In Halo's current state its just another FPS game with advanced movement bullshit.

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Tbh im fed up of this buzzword "evolve" that gets thrown out in defense at any franchise thats made poor/shitty changes to its core gameplay. Fine ok lets say a game does need to evolve, but not at the expense of the core gameplay and certainly not at the expense of it its own identity. lets be honest staying the same never hurt CS:GO.

 

I would also like to know what exactly was the problem in H3 that sprint needed to fix ? And if was simply because it played slow then an increase in BMS and a wider FOV couldn't then fix that ?

 

Theres no set rule that games need to evolve, games need to be whatever is going to make the devs and publishers the most money. In Halo's case all sprints inclusion has seen is ever diminshing returns. The 3 games we've had with sprint the mechanic itself has been reworked in every one nerfs, buffs, whatever, it should be pretty clear by now that this game doesnt and never has needed this one mechanic. Its been a bone of contention from day 1 of its inclusion and I for one would love to see it gone.

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Halo doesnt need to evolve. It needs to be different. In Halo's current state its just another FPS game with advanced movement bullshit.

I agree. But the word evolve means that in Halo terms. Hence the subtitle of the original game. 

I believe the new movement abilities actually work quite nicely in Halo 5 - makes me feel like a super soldier more than Bungies games. I feel 343 needs less of them - just keep it to thruster, hover, & clamber. The rest can go. If they bring sprint again, then they better make good maps to accommodate it. 

 

I realize this topic is hotly debated a lot, and has been. This is simply what I feel. I know many won't agree. Thats okay. If 343 returns to Bungie-era movement, thats fine. But its not innovative whatsoever. Well, neither were the abilities innovative for that matter, but for Halo they were just different. Innovation has its limits, and I believe FPSs have hit that. So 343 has some serious decision making to do. That, or they already have their design down right now and are coding everything.

 

I understand the wish for classical movements. Perhaps 343's designers know how to make them work within their design vision. But hey, if they remove sprint and most, or all the abilities, but make it where I'm not walking as slow as Bungies games were, then that sounds good to me. 

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Ehh, I'd say stabilizers, but make it a manual button press like others suggested. If they keep ground pound, they need to remap it off the melee button. Gawd damn that aerial melee delay is annoying.

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Ehh, I'd say stabilizers, but make it a manual button press like others suggested. If they keep ground pound, they need to remap it off the melee button. Gawd damn that aerial melee delay is annoying.

You can have stabilizers manual already.

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Game mechanics are more often than not timeless.  They don't age with time.  Jumping isn't suddenly a bad mechanic in videogames just because it's as old as the medium itself.  Fourty years later and it's still a major part of most games.  Basketball won't suddenly be "dated" in 30 years just because it still doesn't let you carry the ball.

 

When they aren't timeless is when something straight up, almost objectively superior comes along.  2D aim vs 3D aim, P2P vs Dedicated Servers, Forge vs Hammer, so on.  The few cases where a game being "dated" is actually a valid argument.

 

The problem is people apply that logic to things which aren't straight up superior.  Sprint is not fundamentally better than fast speed or bunnyhopping.  It's just a different take on the concept of movement.  A game isn't "unevolved" just because it chooses one method over the other.

 

Evolve implies some objective level of improvement.  A shift in mechanics designed to cater to your personal tastes is not that.

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