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CSR is Still Flawed: A Comprehensive Review of Halo 5's Ranking System

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Of topic but, I'm Curious as to what you think made halo so popular if it wasn't the fact that if offered something for a diverse audience.

 

I think if you took a poll of past halo fans, and ask them the #1 reason why this game resonated, you'd get a wide variety of answers from the competitive scene to campaign, to standard 4v4, machinima, crazy customs, btb, forge, and social etc.

 

Then you'd step back and realize the game was a massive hit because a single game was able to fully satisfy a group of people who had a massive variety of interests.

 

IMO part of the reason halo is losing its luster is because its quality has regressed in all of those categories (except forge. Forge is the shit)

 

Sorry for responding so late, been busy with some stuff haha.

 

I think diversity is a cool trait that Halo has, and it may have been a pillar of its success, but I think it is far, far from its main selling point.

 

Here are the things that I think made Halo successful (Note: 343 does miss the mark on a lot of this)

  • Fun and engaging gameplay feedback loops
  • Incredible art style and storytelling
  • Bungie's fantastic "game making" (animations, audio, visuals, player satisfaction)
  • Incredible social tools and experiences (Lobbies, Custom Game options, UGC/Forge)
  • Unique FPS gameplay in the form of Halo's Arena-Squad-shooter-hybrid (Fun sandbox, creative map design, etc.)

 

I think all of these traits were inherently applied to all of the experiences that both Bungie AND the community created, and thus Halo's diversity was born. I don't necessarily think the chicken came before the egg.

 

Also, I agree with everything that Mace said regarding Halo's identity. The OP was written by me, but the ideas are pretty much both of ours.

 

But that isn't nor was it ever the reason Halo was popular. This became a popular game precisely because it offered so much and put it all on the forefront for people to experience.

 

I'm going to say that this is the exact opposite of what 343 needs to do. Some amount of players enticed by a wide variety of casual offerings will drift into the competitive scene naturally. But if there's no reason for someone to pick up this game, then everyone loses.

 

All you need to do to realize that the majority of Halo fans aren't interested in competitive Halo is to browse Waypoint or /r/Halo and compare them to equivalent communities in LoL, CS, Dota, etc.

 

Is it any surprise to anyone that competitive players feel their preferred mode has become to casualized and casual players believe theirs has become too competitive?

 

You are tunnel visioning on the concept of esports having the exclusivity on competitive gameplay. Overwatch has become a colossal success, but to be honest, they haven't really done anything interesting whatsoever in the esports realm. Yet when you look at the /r/Overwatch subreddit, gifs of game clips get thousands upon thousands of upvotes, and that gameplay is identical to what you see in the esport environment. It's the same for casual players, for competitive players, and for esport competitors.

 

Creating synonymity amongst your players is such a powerful and underrated way to grow your game and your audience.

 

(Story time) On Christmas, I visited my girlfriend's family and hit it off with one of her cousins, because I saw he had an Xbox One in his basement. He explained that he's huge into Overwatch and that he plays it nonstop. I'm a big Overwatch fan, obviously, and so we immediately propelled ourselves into an hour-long conversation about the game. We asked each other what we were ranked; we are both Platinum (see how easy that is?) and agreed we would grind together when we go back to school. We both talked for hours because we share the same experience and went through the same loop to become attached to the identity of the game. We also had a similar conversation about Rocket League.

 

I then told him that I'm a big Halo fan, and he said he likes Halo too! Awesome! I went home and checked his Waypoint service record and found that he had only been ranked once. In SWAT. 13 months ago.

 

I'm not saying diversity is a bad thing, but there is a severe lack of connectivity and familiarity between Halo's audience and there are many factors to blame for that. The ranking system is one of them.

 

I'm not Infinity but I'll throw in my thoughts.

 

You pretty much are.

 

I was thinking about the breakdown of playlists in to Team Arena, Core, and Social lists and actually love this idea the more i think about it.

You go into Multiplayer and pick from one of the 3

 

- Team Arena is its own dedicated area with the strictest MM parameters, HCS gametypes only. This would be the only playlist with no CSR cap and where you could obtain Champion rank.

- Core is for Slayer, 2v2 and FFA.  Slightly looser MM parameters to emphasize speed. Maybe a more relaxed rank progression algorithm too but still gives you visible ranks and uses those to get you matches. No Champion ranks available and Onyx rank has a cap.

- Social is everything else.  very loose MM parameters where connection quality is 90% of the prioritization.

 

I think this discussion about a new orientation for matchmaking is pretty interesting, but I'd go about it a bit differently. Here is what I would do (not including Warzone/Firefight or whatever they want to do with that)

 

The UI would be much different to reflect the different layouts and importances of different hoppers.

 

Quick Play: Team Skirmish-equivalent, filled with as many fun/balanced/logical gametype variants the game has to offer (not Coliseum Strongholds haha). However, in a perfect world, none of the DLC content would be bad. This could easily be identical to Team Arena if they would just spend more time ensuring the sustain content had competitive merit.

 

Ranked Play: Core modes of competition. CSR, strict skill matchmaking, party restrictions, skill-differential party caps, and more that I mentioned in the OP

  • Team Arena
  • Doubles
  • Free-For-Al

 

Social: Additional niche modes and playlists for random enjoyment 

  • Slayer
  • Snipers
  • SWAT

(I excluded BTB because I think that detracts from Arena's image. They should find a way to provide a classic vehicle sandbox experience by hybridizing it with Warzone. E.g. "Warzone Classic", which is BTB on modified Warzone maps. Hell, this could even replace Warzone Assault and its resources.)

 

I envision a revamped social experience as well. With all the tools at hand, we shouldnt have to rely in 343 to curate enjoyable social playlists. They are VERY SLOW at responding to the popular trends in the community. They need to take their game browser to the next level and offer a full fledged server rental system.

 

This this this.

 

Not only are the current Arcade-Social playlists (Infection, Grifball, Action Sack) pretty sloppily managed, but they also detract from the image and potential of UGC and Forge itself. Very few people realize the potential that Halo 5's UGC has because 343 has restricted their perspective by funneling players into these lackluster playlists that get updated every 3 months.

 

It's a vicious cycle, actually. Rather than pouring resources into advertising and enhancing the Custom Game Browser and File Browser, 343 chooses to toss things into matchmaking. Then people get bored of the content in the playlist, and they start asking for refreshes, which takes away even more resources.

 

Give the tools to the players (Server Browser, File Browser) and focus your own development resources on the core game (Arena, Warzone)

 

Josh Menke responded to a lot of the concerns about party matching, skill placements and number of ranked playlists on Waypoint.

 

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/58b8518e005f432381ab99fbcaf931e0/topics/matchmaking-feedback-update----jan-30/36662144-984b-48a1-8719-5c81b9f0ba3b/posts

 

I posted my thoughts on his solutions in the thread. Hopefully he digests them.

 

I will say though that I find it extremely disappointing that he disagrees with reducing ranked lists.

 

Having ranked swat didn't negatively effect the MLG list.

 

This is a very arbitrary statement. There are literally dozens of reasons for MLG's unpopularity as a playlist.

 

This is the whole point. We only need 1 ranked playlist that determines how good someone is. You can have other distinctions for the other playlists, but your rank or border should distinguish how good you are and it should be clear to everyone who sees it.

 

 

I think the amount of ranked playlists depends a lot on 343's choices for Halo's competitive image. If they want the focus to be solely 4v4 (like Halo 5's marketing suggested), then one ranked playlist makes sense. If they want 2v2 and FFA to be a core part of Halo's future, then they deserve better treatment during development and should then be ranked.

 

(For example, Rocket League doesn't have a set identity due to its ability to be played 1v1, 2v2, and 3v3. All three modes of play have ranked lists)

 

For example, @@GH057ayame has said on Twitter that he will be pushing to make Free-For-All in Halo 5 reflect the design intentions of the HCS FFA variants. Vision like this is what makes playlists deserving of CSR.

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This is the whole point. We only need 1 ranked playlist that determines how good someone is. You can have other distinctions for the other playlists, but your rank or border should distinguish how good you are and it should be clear to everyone who sees it.

I have no qualms about team arena rank being THE INDICATOR of a players skill

 

But as Josh Menke noted in his post, there's a large number of players who want the feedback and MM quality provided by a ranking system in other modes.

 

That's why i like the Team Arena/Core/Social split idea.

 

Team Arena would be the only playlist that determines how good you are as a halo player. And your rank here would follow you like a badge of honor.

 

Core would house those playlists that have a demand for skill based matchmaking and feedback on skill progression (slayer,2v2,FFA,etc). There wouldn't be an elaborate division/tier rank system. But players would get feedback on their skill progression.

 

Social would be rank free, and primarily community driven. Ideally with a server browser and rental system.

 

 

So if someone asks "what's your rank in Halo" the answer would be "Platinum 6" or whatever it is you achieved in Team Arena.

 

But if someone asks "do you play any 2v2?", you could answer "yeah, I'm in the top 20%"

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So if someone asks "what's your rank in Halo" the answer would be "Platinum 6" or whatever it is you achieved in Team Arena.

 

But if someone asks "do you play any 2v2?", you could answer "yeah, I'm in the top 20%"

Makes sense. A simple way to differentiate between which playlist is the 'premier' and still allow ranks for many playlist is the depth of the leaderboards provided.

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Sorry for responding so late, been busy with some stuff haha.

 

I think diversity is a cool trait that Halo has, and it may have been a pillar of its success, but I think it is far, far from its main selling point.

 

Here are the things that I think made Halo successful (Note: 343 does miss the mark on a lot of this)

  • Fun and engaging gameplay feedback loops
  • Incredible art style and storytelling
  • Bungie's fantastic "game making" (animations, audio, visuals, player satisfaction)
  • Incredible social tools and experiences (Lobbies, Custom Game options, UGC/Forge)
  • Unique FPS gameplay in the form of Halo's Arena-Squad-shooter-hybrid (Fun sandbox, creative map design, etc.)
I think all of these traits were inherently applied to all of the experiences that both Bungie AND the community created, and thus Halo's diversity was born. I don't necessarily think the chicken came before the egg.

 

Also, I agree with everything that Mace said regarding Halo's identity. The OP was written by me, but the ideas are pretty much both of ours

 

See that's the thing, i don't think halo EVER had a "main selling point". It was so inherently flexible, that there a million different ways to find enjoyment.

 

The diversity of experience DEFINITELY helped with its sales, because it increased the likelihood that an individual would find something in the game that resonates.

 

I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but, There's no precedent on consoles for a centralized competitive focus leading to high adoption and retention. Overwatch MAY end up being the first example, but it's still to early to tell. But Destiny went the other direction and is an even bigger success story.

 

The key to a Halo's resurgence is, imo, to return to being a Master of all trades like they were before. That would mean looking to titles like Overwatch and Destiny to learn how to regain those segments, while also looking to the old Halo experiences and relearning WHY they resonated.

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Just read the post from Menke on waypoint and im so happy to have him back. Other than his reluctance to remove some ranked lists, i like his ideas but more importantly, i like the way he approaches the problem.

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You guys realise that Overwatch isn't really doing all that well on consoles right?

 

It's sales are..meh

 

It's place on the XBL population list is...eh

 

Besides Halo REALLY needs to stop looking sideways at competitors for ideas and start to look back at what people used to like about Halo.

 

1(or very few) centralised playlists is most certainly not one of those things.

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You guys realise that Overwatch isn't really doing all that well on consoles right?

 

It's sales are..meh

 

It's place on the XBL population list is...eh

 

Besides Halo REALLY needs to stop looking sideways at competitors for ideas and start to look back at what people used to like about Halo.

 

1(or very few) centralised playlists is most certainly not one of those things.

Have you ever played OW with a controller??.

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Can we all agree that at the least SWAT, snipers and breakout have no business being ranked?

Absolutely. Breakout was made social once for a reason.

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How happy was I when that happened lmao

Not as happy as the guy at 343 who got the greenlight to put more resources to Breakout and make it ranked again.

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Not as happy as the guy at 343 who got the greenlight to put more resources to Breakout and make it ranked again.

I don't know why they tried so much to make Breakout a thing.

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I don't know why they tried so much to make Breakout a thing.

 

Its a fine gametype on its own and i bet people would like it more if they had found it on their own or it was a rotating playlist.  They tried to force as its own thing though and convince us that it was good and we liked it instead of letting people decide on their own. and its just so different from every other Halo gametype that people expect and have been playing for 15 years, and it took away development time from making proper gametypes like King, Oddball and Assault available at launch.  Adding extra sting to the burn

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FYI - Breakout is the least popular ranked playlist, by a wide margin.

How can you get a usage number for that?

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Its a fine gametype on its own and i bet people would like it more if they had found it on their own or it was a rotating playlist. They tried to force as its own thing though and convince us that it was good and we liked it instead of letting people decide on their own. and its just so different from every other Halo gametype that people expect and have been playing for 15 years, and it took away development time from making proper gametypes like King, Oddball and Assault available at launch. Adding extra sting to the burn

Naw

 

It just sucks lol

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You guys realise that Overwatch isn't really doing all that well on consoles right?

 

It's sales are..meh

 

It's place on the XBL population list is...eh

 

Besides Halo REALLY needs to stop looking sideways at competitors for ideas and start to look back at what people used to like about Halo.

 

1(or very few) centralised playlists is most certainly not one of those things.

I agree it needs to look back on its own self when it comes to the core mechanics, gameplay, and look and feel.  i.e. no sprint and spartain abilities and higher skill gap and precision.  

 

But when it comes to match making, ranking systems, and social features, there is a lot that the Halo devs could learn from games like Overwatch and Rocket league.   Two games that have amazing MM and ranking systems.   

Halo used to pioneer that stuff, not it's just fucking awful.  

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Naw

 

It just sucks lol

 

haha i don't like it either but if people do thats fine.  

 

My biggest problem with the gametype is that they clearly spent a looooot of time developing for it considering how much they pushed it and the fact that they created specific components of map design solely around that gametype.  It was a lot of wasted energy spent before they even got the basics right (King, Oddball, Assault). If they had all those gametypes working well FIRST, then spent a ton of resources on Breakout and it was a failure, not a big deal.

But they didn't even try to do it right before they did it different, which pisses me off to no end.

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Besides Halo REALLY needs to stop looking sideways at competitors for ideas and start to look back at what people used to like about Halo.

I don't think anyone is asking for 343 to take any gameplay influences from Overwatch like they have from Call of Duty, but rather to mirror some of the undeniably great non-gameplay/presentation features that Blizzard has implemented. From the start menu to the end of a match, Overwatch does a great job at contextualizing every game through features like play of the game, MVP,  ranks, stats, and many more. I personally don't enjoy Overwatch's gameplay very much but could probably write a novel about every thing it does right to encourage players to stick around. These are all systems that Halo (and every other FPS) should be inspired by.

 

Also 343 can and should look both sideways and back to create a better Halo 6. Hopefully they start doing what Bungie did so well and look forward to innovate in the genre. 

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some interesting stats (via HaloTracker) that also support the premise of ranked playlist reduction

 

Unranked players = players who have not completed all 10 placements, but have started playing the playlist

 

#1 - Slayer

  • 51,252 total (tracked) players
  • 7% Onyx Distribution
  • 21,250 Unranked players (41.5% of Slayer population)
  • Population is looking for Slayer-exclusivity, not ranks

 

#2 - Team Arena

  • 46,165 total (tracked) players
  • ~5,000 Onyx players (10% distribution, Over-populated)
  • ~20,000 Unranked players (43.2%)
  • Core Arena experience, deserving of ranks

 

#3 - SWAT

  • 32,896 players
  • 17,374 unranked players (52.8%)
  • Very even distribution across all tiers
  • Hyper-casual audience, ranks clearly not a necessity

 

#4 - Doubles

  • 29,115 players
  • 16,627 unranked players (57.1%)
  • ~2,000 Onyx Players (7.1%, slightly high percentile)
  • Strong competitive viability deserving of ranks, but has received heavy abandonment from 343

 

#5 - Snipers

  • 25,928 players
  • 18,592 unranked players (71.7%)
  • Which means less than 30% of the people who have even touched Snipers have completed placements
  • Huge lack of player engagement/retention
  • Only 65 Champions
  • Onyx & Champion = 1.3% (low)

 

#6 - Free-For-All

  • 21,929 players
  • 14,037 unranked players (64%)
  • Unranked players could indicate frustrations with non-competitive settings
  • 2,358 Onyx players (~11%, overpopulated)
  • Bronze & Silver = 3% (Underpopulated?)
  • Updates coming soon, but deserving of ranks if approached more intimately by developers

 

#7 - Breakout

  • 20,930 players
  • 13,259 unranked players (63.3%)
  • Only 578 players in Onyx/Champion (< 3%, severely underpopulated\)
  • I don't need to tell this forum, but Breakout is far too volatile and lacks a lot of competitive merit. This least popular mode has been Social in the past, it should be Social again.

 

 

Takeaways:

  • Slayer and SWAT are amongst the Top 3, but are (likely) comprised of players who are not in search of ranks.
  • Team Arena's popularity should both impress and satisfy many, as it proves how successful it can be serving as the core ranked Halo playlist. MLG was a barren wasteland in previous Halo games, and now our competitive playlist is the second most popular ranked environment in the game. Universal settings work.
  • Doubles and FFA could receive drastic population/retention buffs with proper treatment and game updates from 343.
  • Snipers has a dramatically low player retention, which is not healthy for a ranked environment (because of the systems reliance on distribution & curves)
  • Breakout's unpopularity should speak for itself
  • Varying populations for varying experiences causes different division distributions to become inconsistent (Arena having an overpopulated high-end, Snipers & Breakout having a barren high-end)
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Besides Halo REALLY needs to stop looking sideways at competitors for ideas and start to look back at what people used to like about Halo.

There is nothing wrong with applying quality of life changes from other games. Halo needs to learn from both it's past AND it's competition.
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<p>

 

some interesting stats (via HaloTracker) that also support the premise of ranked playlist reduction

 

Unranked players = players who have not completed all 10 placements, but have started playing the playlist

 

#1 - Slayer

  • 51,252 total (tracked) players
  • 7% Onyx Distribution
  • 21,250 Unranked players (41.5% of Slayer population)
  • Population is looking for Slayer-exclusivity, not ranks
#2 - Team Arena
  • 46,165 total (tracked) players
  • ~5,000 Onyx players (10% distribution, Over-populated)
  • ~20,000 Unranked players (43.2%)
  • Core Arena experience, deserving of ranks
#3 - SWAT
  • 32,896 players
  • 17,374 unranked players (52.8%)
  • Very even distribution across all tiers
  • Hyper-casual audience, ranks clearly not a necessity
#4 - Doubles
  • 29,115 players
  • 16,627 unranked players (57.1%)
  • ~2,000 Onyx Players (7.1%, slightly high percentile)
  • Strong competitive viability deserving of ranks, but has received heavy abandonment from 343
#5 - Snipers
  • 25,928 players
  • 18,592 unranked players (71.7%)
  • Which means less than 30% of the people who have even touched Snipers have completed placements
  • Huge lack of player engagement/retention
  • Only 65 Champions
  • Onyx & Champion = 1.3% (low)
#6 - Free-For-All
  • 21,929 players
  • 14,037 unranked players (64%)
  • Unranked players could indicate frustrations with non-competitive settings
  • 2,358 Onyx players (~11%, overpopulated)
  • Bronze & Silver = 3% (Underpopulated?)
  • Updates coming soon, but deserving of ranks if approached more intimately by developers
#7 - Breakout
  • 20,930 players
  • 13,259 unranked players (63.3%)
  • Only 578 players in Onyx/Champion (< 3%, severely underpopulated\)
  • I don't need to tell this forum, but Breakout is far too volatile and lacks a lot of competitive merit. This least popular mode has been Social in the past, it should be Social again.
Takeaways:
  • Slayer and SWAT are amongst the Top 3, but are (likely) comprised of players who are not in search of ranks.
  • Team Arena's popularity should both impress and satisfy many, as it proves how successful it can be serving as the core ranked Halo playlist. MLG was a barren wasteland in previous Halo games, and now our competitive playlist is the second most popular ranked environment in the game. Universal settings work.
  • Doubles and FFA could receive drastic population/retention buffs with proper treatment and game updates from 343.
  • Snipers has a dramatically low player retention, which is not healthy for a ranked environment (because of the systems reliance on distribution & curves)
  • Breakout's unpopularity should speak for itself
  • Varying populations for varying experiences causes different division distributions to become inconsistent (Arena having an overpopulated high-end, Snipers & Breakout having a barren high-end)
Given the unscientfic data from halotracker. How'd you come to such wildly different conclusions between Slayer and Team Arena. Factoring a sizeable margin of error, the statistics between the two are essentially identical.

 

I think you have a case of confirmation bias. If you ignore the margin or error, Slayer is more popular, Has more players getting their ranks, and a larger percentage of Players getting their ranks when compared to Team Arena. How can you use THIS data to come to your conclusion?

 

You have the same reasoning inconsitencies when comparing SWAT and DOUBLES, neither of which appear to have much retention or players in search of ranks. But you attribute the issues with doubles to the lack of polish... why not the same with SWAT?

 

Also, your Universal Settings argument is flawed. 343 could have turned ANY popular playlist into the HCS playlist and it would have had a similar effect.

 

If Team Slayer was crowned the HCS playlist, guess what, the 'Competitive' playlist would be the #1 playlist. Universal Settings work?

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Given the unscientfic data from halotracker. How'd you come to such wildly different conclusions between Slayer and Team Arena. Factoring a sizeable margin of error, the statistics between the two are identical.

 

I think you have a case of confirmation bias. Slayer is more popular, Has more players getting their ranks, and a larger percentage of Players getting their ranks when compared to Team Arena. How can you use THIS data to come to your conclusion?

 

 

Because data across numerous FPS's show that casual players tend to gravitate towards deathmatch-exclusive playlists, regardless of ranking systems.

 

I wasn't insinuating that the data suggested that, I was just presenting it because it is interesting to see which of the ranked lists are the most popular. I thoroughly expected Slayer to be the #1.

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Because data across numerous FPS's show that casual players tend to gravitate towards deathmatch-exclusive playlists, regardless of ranking systems.

 

I wasn't insinuating that the data suggested that, I was just presenting it because it is interesting to see which of the ranked lists are the most popular. I thoroughly expected Slayer to be the #1.

So you aren't looking objectively at THIS data?

 

How can you say with any certainty that casual halo players don't ALSO enjoy getting ranks?

 

Also, see my edit about your Universal Settings conclusion.

 

This data is largely inconclusive. Though it does suggest that few players ACROSS THE BOARD are getting their Arena ranks.

 

343 definately needs to make the progression system more rewarding for those playing in Arena.

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So you aren't looking objectively at THIS data?

 

How can you say with any certainty that casual halo players don't ALSO enjoy getting ranks?

 

Also, see my edit about your Universal Settings conclusion.

 

This data is largely inconclusive. Though it does suggest that few players ACROSS THE BOARD are getting their Arena ranks.

 

343 definately needs to make the progression system more rewarding for those playing in Arena.

The Arena Req payouts are pretty bad, specially the boosts. There are no rewards for playing Arena.

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The Arena Req payouts are pretty bad, specially the boosts. There are no rewards for playing Arena.

Without actually crunching numbers it looks like we'd be lucky if half of the people who go into Arena actually get ranks in anything.

 

Honestly, 343 has the Req and XP payouts backwards IMO.

 

If they were smart, Team Arena would give a much better payout than Warzone. And the payouts would increase depending on your Rank. This would give those Warzone loving casuals a reason to come over, contribute to the skill pool and actually try to get good at competitive Halo.

 

They'd earn their RP in Arena, then spend it in Warzone. Then come back to Arena when it's time to stock up.

 

(They'd probably actually sell more Req packs this way too...shh)

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