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Cap3llo

Halo 4 SWAT: Time for an update?

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As an avid player of SWAT through every Halo game, I have seen the game type evolve to become better and more competitive. Having played a lot of SWAT in Halo 4 I have had a lot of fun, but have some possible suggestions/feedback which could possibly improve the game type. I'm not trying to hate on the current game type currently in Halo 4, this is just some constructive feedback!

 

Having experimented with different damage modifiers etc. (75% Player Damage, 90% Melee Damage) in the game settings I have managed to recreate the melee + one shot kill system, rather than the simple one hit melee in place at the moment. In my opinion this stops people from sprinting up to you and meleeing you before you even know what happened. Also this meant it took six body shots to kill a player rather than three, and thus requires more skill to get a headshot (rather than just spam the weapon).

 

Finally, I think that there should only be one loadout, comprising of a BR/DMR and maybe a magnum. Even though the new title update introduced a lot of weapon balance into normal matchmaking, the DMR is still undoubtedly more powerful in SWAT, as it has a longer scope. Therefore I think having only one loadout consisting of either the BR or DMR would slightly balance the game type out more, but this is not so important as my other point.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read this, and I would appreciate any feedback/ opinions on this, or any other improvements to the current game type in Halo 4. Sorry this is quite long too, it may seem like a rant but it is just my thoughts!

 

P.S Please do not hate on this topic if you do not like SWAT, if possible could you just keep your thoughts to yourself please? Thank you!

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I agree to an extent... I think LR/BR/DMR should be there seperate loadouts and I think carbine should be placed on map (if at all).

 

oh yeah and please get rid of the magnum, trolls wet dream.

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I agree to an extent... I think LR/BR/DMR should be there seperate loadouts and I think carbine should be placed on map (if at all).

 

oh yeah and please get rid of the magnum, trolls wet dream.

Oops, forgot to mention the carbine. I remember the carbine being a weapon you could pick up in SWAT back in Halo 3 on maps like Heretic. I think it could definitely work in Halo 4 too.

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Oops, forgot to mention the carbine. I remember the carbine being a weapon you could pick up in SWAT back in Halo 3 on maps like Heretic. I think it could definitely work in Halo 4 too.

the RoF is so ridiculous though, I think putting it on the map is the best way to go about it.

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the RoF is so ridiculous though, I think putting it on the map is the best way to go about it.

I agree, I certainly wouldn't have it as a starting loadout...I would personally stick to UNSC weapons.

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I agree, I certainly wouldn't have it as a starting loadout...I would personally stick to UNSC weapons.

not this again...

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? What do you mean?

that UNSC bias bro, thats the reason behind the whole BR vs DMR debate to begin with.

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that UNSC bias bro, thats the reason behind the whole BR vs DMR debate to begin with.

Both weapons are UNSC, so I don't see how there is any bias between both weapons in that way :(

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Both weapons are UNSC, so I don't see how there is any bias between both weapons in that way :(

the fact LR/carbine were never really considered is a testament to how biased people can be sometimes, it was BR vs DMR and nothing else was ever really considered :(

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the fact LR/carbine were never really considered is a testament to how biased people can be sometimes, it was BR vs DMR and nothing else was ever really considered :(

Possibly because on these current settings the LR is a two shot body shot when scoped in, and the carbine shoots ridiculously fast. However I see what you are saying there :)

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If it were up to me, the only loadout would be a Magnum. It's perfectly balanced and has many beneficial qualities. For instance, the bloom is much greater than the DMR; you must be instinctively thinking, "No, bloom is uncompetitive and inherently evil," but bear with me: Bloom is bad for most other game types because it doesn't take as much skill to hit someone in the body as it does to pop them in the head, and when shields are up, damage to the body is the same as to the head. Because of this, [in game types using shields,] it isn't very punishing to spam that trigger for the faster kill, or maybe because you missed a few sloppy shots. In SWAT, however, accuracy is on of the most important things, and more-accurate players should be rewarded over those who simply see the other player first and start spamming. The Magnum has much more bloom than the DMR, so spammers are discouraged with lower accuracy and lower success rates, but also for another reason, which I will explain now. The Magnum has a much smaller clip than the other potential loadout precision weapons. The DMR has 16 bullets and the BR 12 bursts. This gives the user the opportunity to spam without being punished by having to reload; the BR's spread is very forgiving, and the auto aim (different than aim assist) of both is rather unskillful. The Magnum has only eight bullets in a clip, but each is as deadly as those of the other rifles. Spamming is less forgiving, and campy long range battles are less prone to happen every match on Lockout. Although the Magnum has a less powerful scope, the range is still the same. It requires a skillful marksman to brain people from across the map, and as I mentioned before, the bloom is very effective at punishing long range spammers; this also promotes map movement, something that I find is less prominent in Halo 4's SWAT mode--perhaps this is because the hitscan detection is so much better than that of previous games'; indeed, in Halo 3, you could spam five bursts from across the map without getting a kill, which forced you to move around and get into a more useful position. However, I am not advocating the banishment of the other precision weapons; they could be power weapons, which would encourage further map movement. Also, I like the idea of decreasing melee damage and weapon damage. Testing would be required, however. Ultimately, a more skillful game is a better game.

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Nice points brought up. I think a lot of other options should be considered, not as the standard, but as more gametype versions. The current standard gametypes are solid SWAT, and that shows with the strong following throughout h4's lifetime. but yeah I'd agree with the universal dmg modifier change

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It would foolhardy to change the settings without prior warning; SWAT is the third-most populated playlist after Big Team and Infinity Slayer. It must have some defining quality that keeps people coming back for more. My theory is that people don't necessarily have to worry about the meta (team coordination, strafing, power weapon control); they can simply focus on their aim. It's a simple concept that will continue to work, unless we violate it with unbalanced settings.

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@OP Do you have this gametype on a fileshare somewhere so we could try it out without having to go into custom games options and swap settings around manually?

 

It would foolhardy to change the settings without prior warning; SWAT is the third-most populated playlist after Big Team and Infinity Slayer. It must have some defining quality that keeps people coming back for more. My theory is that people don't necessarily have to worry about the meta (team coordination, strafing, power weapon control); they can simply focus on their aim. It's a simple concept that will continue to work, unless we violate it with unbalanced settings.

 

How would you extend this argument to the Infinity Slayer and BTS playlists? It seems like you are judging the quality of a playlist based on its population, and in that case, BTS would be the best playlist, then IS, then SWAT, then whatever and then Throwdown somewhere near the bottom.

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It seems like you are judging the quality of a playlist based on its population .

BTS, IS, SWAT, and TTD all appeal to different groups of players with different playing styles. BTS and IS just so happen to support the largest group of gamers: The casuals; they also keep players coming back for more. Just as TTD is consistently competitive and balanced, social game types like IS and BTS are consistently chaotic and just plain fun. Everyone has an opinion as to what makes a "quality" playlist, but I agree, there are certainly many more qualities than playlist population that determine that quality.

Additionally, let me give you this example to show how my argument extends into those two casual playlists I mentioned. Just as people might be alienated by Magnum-only loadouts or decreased melee damage in SWAT, so would people be alienated by a lack of vehicles or just one starting weapon in Big Team. Change can be good, but not all changes are, and not all people will agree with them even if they are better.

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that UNSC bias bro, thats the reason behind the whole BR vs DMR debate to begin with.

Did someone say "bias"? :D

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If it were up to me, the only loadout would be a Magnum. It's perfectly balanced and has many beneficial qualities. For instance, the bloom is much greater than the DMR; you must be instinctively thinking, "No, bloom is uncompetitive and inherently evil," but bear with me: Bloom is bad for most other game types because it doesn't take as much skill to hit someone in the body as it does to pop them in the head, and when shields are up, damage to the body is the same as to the head. Because of this, [in game types using shields,] it isn't very punishing to spam that trigger for the faster kill, or maybe because you missed a few sloppy shots. In SWAT, however, accuracy is on of the most important things, and more-accurate players should be rewarded over those who simply see the other player first and start spamming. The Magnum has much more bloom than the DMR, so spammers are discouraged with lower accuracy and lower success rates, but also for another reason, which I will explain now. The Magnum has a much smaller clip than the other potential loadout precision weapons. The DMR has 16 bullets and the BR 12 bursts. This gives the user the opportunity to spam without being punished by having to reload; the BR's spread is very forgiving, and the auto aim (different than aim assist) of both is rather unskillful. The Magnum has only eight bullets in a clip, but each is as deadly as those of the other rifles. Spamming is less forgiving, and campy long range battles are less prone to happen every match on Lockout. Although the Magnum has a less powerful scope, the range is still the same. It requires a skillful marksman to brain people from across the map, and as I mentioned before, the bloom is very effective at punishing long range spammers; this also promotes map movement, something that I find is less prominent in Halo 4's SWAT mode--perhaps this is because the hitscan detection is so much better than that of previous games'; indeed, in Halo 3, you could spam five bursts from across the map without getting a kill, which forced you to move around and get into a more useful position. However, I am not advocating the banishment of the other precision weapons; they could be power weapons, which would encourage further map movement. Also, I like the idea of decreasing melee damage and weapon damage. Testing would be required, however. Ultimately, a more skillful game is a better game.

I agree with what you are saying. Maybe this could lead to the introduction of a 'SWAT Magnums' Gametype?

 

Nice points brought up. I think a lot of other options should be considered, not as the standard, but as more gametype versions. The current standard gametypes are solid SWAT, and that shows with the strong following throughout h4's lifetime. but yeah I'd agree with the universal dmg modifier change

Thanks for your feedback.

 

It would foolhardy to change the settings without prior warning; SWAT is the third-most populated playlist after Big Team and Infinity Slayer. It must have some defining quality that keeps people coming back for more. My theory is that people don't necessarily have to worry about the meta (team coordination, strafing, power weapon control); they can simply focus on their aim. It's a simple concept that will continue to work, unless we violate it with unbalanced settings.

Now that I think about, this could be why there has not been an update to the playlist yet, as people do seem to like the current formula.

 

@OP Do you have this gametype on a fileshare somewhere so we could try it out without having to go into custom games options and swap settings around manually

I'll have a "SWAT V2" Gametype in my file share by tomorrow. :)

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I think the most important change that can be made is the ranking system in SWAT. As of right now, it's ranked individually, but it's a team-based game. Let me show you a video from when the ranking system first came out; it's the reactions of a pro SWAT player, Bwwaaaa. It's heartbreaking, to say the least. This is someone who has consistently played SWAT since Halo 3, and probably even before that. Up until he quit, Bwwaaaa had the most Magnum kills in the world. This is his 'second impressions' video on SWAT after CSR. Please understand that he is very angry after having his playlist violated. Keep in mind that he usually is a team player and uses the Magnum exclusively...

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I really enjoyed SWAT in Halo 2/3, but in Reach/4 I feel it's just way too easy to get a headshot across the map/just in general. I liked someone's idea about Pistol only, even though again it's so easy to get a headshot with it.

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I really enjoyed SWAT in Halo 2/3, but in Reach/4 I feel it's just way too easy to get a headshot across the map/just in general. I liked someone's idea about Pistol only, even though again it's so easy to get a headshot with it.

Both Halo: Reach and Halo 4 use hitscan restritration, whereas Halo 3 used bullet detection. The difference is that hitscan is instantaneous and bullet detection is not, which means you have to lead your shots; lag is also a much greater issue. I'm not sure what Halo 2 used, but nonetheless it must have been inferior because Bungie had to implement auto aim, which is completely different than aim assist. Aim assist pulls your reticle onto the enemy player, whereas auto aim automatically registers bullets as hits if they are somewhere near the hitbox. Hitboxes are another issue; they have grown much larger starting in Reach.The combination of auto aim, larger hitboxes, and excellent hitscan registration makes it much easier to headshot people in the newer games then say in Halo CE. In Halo 4, the precision weapons have a theoretically infinite range, unlike certain weapons (Needler, Storm Rifle, Spartan Laser). However, the bullets do have a small random element within the reticle. Hopefully that makes at least some sense.

 

As for my idea of Magnum-starts, the range of the pistol is the same as the DMR--infinite, hypothetically. But the Magnum has a 2x scope, whereas the DMR's is 3x. This technically doesn't effect the accuracy (aside from randomness within the reticle and bloom over long distances), but simply the size of the reticle will mentally discourage people from using it at extremely long ranges. When I was playing some good ol' BTB at my friend's house (split-screen), the only loadout I had was Assault Rifle / Magnum. Nevertheless, I managed to headshot people from base to base on Ragnarok. I even managed to kill a Mantis with the pistol! :) So it's a mental thing, if any.

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