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CyReN

Halo World Championship 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Bit early I think. Huke was 100% rookie of the year for 2016.

Seems crazy to think of him as a rookie up until January. Considering major sports only play one season a year I feel like worlds was him as a rookie then summer and fall seasons were after his rookie "year"

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I don't understand this logic. How is placing on the low end bad? You used to start at 1. The placements aren't meant to place you at your rank instantly. They are there so that you don't have to spend 50 games going from bronze to plat. You can start at plat. I'm not saying the ranking system atm is good, I'm saying that the argument that it places you on the low side is bad, is just a dumb argument. It should never place you higher than plat.

 

to me i dont understand the point of going through placement matches to determine your rank to only undercut that rank and place you lower. i am consistently plat at the end of every season, yet placements put me lower and lower each time until i was hitting silver after the placement matches. i feel like there are two explanations for this. for one, its a way to encourage me to play more to regain my true rank. secondly, its a way to inflate k/d as you play lower ranked players.

 

maybe placing low works well on games with stable servers, but trying to grind up when people either quit of disconnect and you're punished for losing 3v4s just isnt fun. i'd rather start at my own rank after placement and have to work to improve vs trying to regain my true rank. if we need a longer ramp up period, then lets extend to 15 placement matches and show the current calculated rank to see how it works

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It seems like there is essentially a cap around low plat, where no matter how well you play, you can't start higher than that on a new account. And then placement matches seem to only make your rank go down in the following season. Win 9 out of your 10 games against higher ranked players? Cool, you get to keep your rank. Win 50% of those games, which would indicate that level is still a proper placement? You're now dropped down a division.

 

The grind gets pretty rough down in the levels where you play against full onyx teams that match diamond/plat combos due to a gold or silver smurf in their fireteam.

 

Edit: Actually just double-checked, when I placed with my alt, where I solo-queued through a range from silver to onyx 2000, I got plat 4. I don't know how Ola was given gold 2 when he most likely got better results against harder opponents.

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Enjoyed this weekend, those were the greatest games i have seen from halo 5.

 

we 100% need side station streams, the games on the feature stations were so good.

I wouldnt care about side streams as much if we could just flip to feature stations during the 30-45 min downtimes instead of seeing halo wars 2 and the same warzone montage over and over.

 

I'd also like to see the early round matches start earlier in the day so that by the time the more anticiptated matches with the deep run am teams and pro start we can just play 1 game at a time. I dont want to miss pro teams playing because we have to cram games together to fit a short day schedule. we missed a lot of pro team match-ups that i would've loved to have seen

 

good job casting btw

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I hate the post land depression :(

 

Can't wait till Vegas. 

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Seeing a huge SH comeback would be hype but it seems so boring watching a game end with 4 players down as the score hits 100. Not many games at the top level will have that huge 80 points comeback run.  

I remember there was one big comeback...maybe it was old optic in the lcq or something that was incredibly. 

 

ALG vs EG in last pro league.  devastating comeback.  Maybe that's just because im an EG fan though...

 

imo it's always been worse than CTF / KotH / SH / Oddball, because objective gametypes require more skill and better teamwork.  I guess it's good to include slayer just because in some sense that's the "basic" Halo experience, and the games tend to finish more quickly than obj games?

 

Slayer games often end right at the end of time.  I wouldn't say they are any faster than other gametypes at higher levels.  I find them boring 90% of the time tbh.

 

Having slayer at the end definitely makes the final game hype. Making SH of CTF game 5 or 7 isn't as hype as you know a couple seconds before the match ends who won.

 

As a viewer, I enjoy slayers but they sometimes get too slow because one team has everything. Having slow slayers would be cool if we had sniper battles, but non of the maps really allow that

 

I do think Dual snipers could work on Coli or Eden.  The problem with dual snipers is less about the maps (though its a little this too) its that the sniper is so fucking easy. I am simply not impressed by any play that happens with the sniper anymore.

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No it just places new accounts hilariously low because it's a bad system

EDIT: Late to the party.

 

Yet people miss the 1-50 system...where you started at what is now Bronze 1 

 

giphy.gif

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Yet people miss the 1-50 system...where you started at what is now Bronze 1

 

giphy.gif

Before playing a single game, yes...

If you won ten placement games against 50s you wouldn't be the equivalent of bronze 1

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Before playing a single game, yes...

If you won ten placement games against 50s you wouldn't be the equivalent of bronze 1

Yeah you'd be what, silver 1?

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to me i dont understand the point of going through placement matches to determine your rank to only undercut that rank and place you lower. i am consistently plat at the end of every season, yet placements put me lower and lower each time until i was hitting silver after the placement matches. i feel like there are two explanations for this. for one, its a way to encourage me to play more to regain my true rank. secondly, its a way to inflate k/d as you play lower ranked players.

 

maybe placing low works well on games with stable servers, but trying to grind up when people either quit of disconnect and you're punished for losing 3v4s just isnt fun. i'd rather start at my own rank after placement and have to work to improve vs trying to regain my true rank. if we need a longer ramp up period, then lets extend to 15 placement matches and show the current calculated rank to see how it works

Placements aren't meant to determine your rank. They're to give you a headstart so you don't have to start at the bottom. The issue isn't the placements (I mean sure the placements can be improved, but removing them would be much much worse). It issue is with how the ranking structure actually works. Different games have different philosophies and I'm sure now that Josh Menke is back were going to be much better off (assuming he helps out). A lot of ranking systems try to have an equal distribution of ranks. I think that's stupid. What you really need to aim for is a bell curve. Essentially bronze and Champion players would be fringe players, with the majority of players in Gold. The ranking system could be greatly improved a number of ways. Unfortunately I'm not Josh and I'm not sure how to necessarily fix the issues. I know just enough that I can just point out what the issues are and maybe why they are such an issue. It should also be worked at to keep the Champion LP lower. No reason it should be that high. Pretty dumb imo.

 

Dialysis-Facility-Star-Rating-System--e1

 

 

edit:

 

 

Before playing a single game, yes...

If you won ten placement games against 50s you wouldn't be the equivalent of bronze 1

If you played 50 high with a brand new account, after 10 games you would be a 20? Maybe? Placement matches are supposed to work like regular matches, just have extra weight to try to kick you off into the right direction. Basically if you win a game in Halo 3 against 50s, you would go from 1-4. If it was a placement match it would bring you from 1-7 or something. Similarly a loss instead of 7-6 or 7-5 would bring you from 7-4 or 7-3. It simply weights games higher and puts your rank behind a curtain until after 10 games. Or at least that's how it should work. 10 wins against 50s shouldn't place you at 50. It should place you around 37.

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Yeah you'd be what, silver 1?

This. In the old system 1-50 you would stomp noobs for 70-80 games before getting any real competition, now in 30 games or less you get some competition.
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Placements aren't meant to determine your rank. They're to give you a headstart so you don't have to start at the bottom. 

 

 

correct.  and ffs man, there have been literally over 1,000 complaining posts in the H5 thread saying something like "wtf, I had a 39.4 k/d and won all ten placement matches, how was I not placed into high onyx???"  This is not how ranking systems work.  The first time Jaedong played the NA ladder (for SC2) he won his first 50 games straight and was still in high diamond ... that's just how these systems work.

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Sat in the airport waiting for my final flight home.

 

St Louis was insane. The matches, the series, the comeback and the emergence of players like shotzzy and renegade just made it a pleasure to be involved with. It hurts to know there were so many stream issues from what I hear, but the buzz at the event itself was great.

 

Personally encourage feedback on my casting from the weekend. Public or private it's appreciated. I know I was almost too hyped at times, but sometimes you just got swept away in the halo.

 

Onwards to London!

 

your casting was awesome. the only issue i had was that it sounded like your mic was nearly muted while you were on. it really did sound like your voice was being picked up by your partner's mic. as for the enthusiasm, it always get me pumped to have the casters getting into the game. your excitement is infectious and i love it. cant wait to see you cast gfinity and i hope you find worlds so we can see you there too!

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I like the current ranking system, but I wish they would come out with the specific math/logic behind it. I looked at Ola's placement matches for his smurf account: 

 

Games played: 10

Games won: 10

Opponent Avg. CSR: 1364

Team Avg. CSR: 2080

Avg. Team Placement: 2.3

 

This took two minutes and isn't very scientific. It doesn't take into account MMR in any way, and the avg. team placement is just how he showed up on the leaderboard.

 

But still, how does someone with these metrics get ranked a 656 CSR? I would think we'd be looking at an absolute minimum of 1000. It's hard to criticize without knowing a) the matching algorithm and b) the complete CSR equation, hence why I'd love to see a full explanation of the current system.

 

@@Tashi @@ske7ch please?

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Before playing a single game, yes...

If you won ten placement games against 50s you wouldn't be the equivalent of bronze 1

That's a good point. Although, I dont have exact numbers for you but I don't think it was possible to hit 50 in 10 games either, no matter who you played against.  Probably end up....around mid 30s maybe 40s? 

 

inb4 we all start debating the equivalant  ranks between old and new system :kappa:

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I know, I know, literally dozens of you have demanded for a new tier breakdown.

 

I can't keep my undying fan waiting:

 

Tier 1

-------

OpTic  - Though I think nV and now TL could conceivably beat OpTic on any given weekend, this weekend proved that OpTic is in their own tier because they have the highest ceiling, and the highest floor.

 

Tier 2

-------

EnVyUs - This team has the ability to beat OpTic, but also seems to have consistency issues that OpTic doesn't have. They'll still compete with OpT at any tournament, but I think OpT is one tier above them at this time. Admittingly, I'd more accurately put NV as Tier 1.5, but thats a cop out, so I won't.

Team Liquid - What a coming out party for TL! They showed this weekend they are top tier team, but until they hang with OpT/NV consistently, I put them here.

 

Tier 3

-------

Str8 Rippin - Huge showing for Ace and co. I didn't expect them to play this well, and as someone who has watched halo since H2 days, I'm glad to see a team of Ace/Heinz/APG doing well. Way to prove me wrong.

Inconceivable - For a first tourney as a team, and first lan for Shotzzy, this team did very well, Though Str8 placed 4th, and INC placed 5/6, I would place these teams in the same bracket, they'll stay in any series, but would have to play hot to topple OpT, NV, or TL.

 

Tier 4

-------

EG - They played solid, but I think this was a classic "Beat everyone below them, lost to everyone above them tournament for EG. They beat LG 3-0, but that was their only solid series win. Facing INC in round 1 was a tough draw,  but a 1-3 to INC and a 1-3 to TL puts them in this tier IMO.

ALG - They'll probably be disappointed with their placing, but I think this team probably "should've" placed 5th/6th, as their ceiling. Drawing str8 first was indeed a tough match up, but they lost 1-3 to Str8, then lost 1-3 to Inc. You could argue they could've probably beat LG or EG in the other half of the losers bracket, but I think Str8 still beats them for a 5/6 placing.

LG - Tough showing for Ninja & crew. I think this just illustrates that as the skill gap shrinks, the margin for mistakes also shrinks, and those solo pushes, and questionable decisions did LG in, and put them here. Well see how this team bounces back.

 

Happy Chinese New Years you filthy animals.

 

 

But what about PNDA, aren't they pros too????  :kappa:  :kappa:  :kappa:  :kappa:

 

For real though ESL needs to fix this. I am not ok watching a pro league where this Inconceivable roster isn't even eligible to compete but a team that took only one game off a lower tier pro team is given a free ticket in. I honestly believe that PNDA would not have made it through the open bracket. Then they finished top 12. With 7th seed. This is not ok.

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Sat in the airport waiting for my final flight home.

 

St Louis was insane. The matches, the series, the comeback and the emergence of players like shotzzy and renegade just made it a pleasure to be involved with. It hurts to know there were so many stream issues from what I hear, but the buzz at the event itself was great.

 

Personally encourage feedback on my casting from the weekend. Public or private it's appreciated. I know I was almost too hyped at times, but sometimes you just got swept away in the halo.

 

Onwards to London!

natural hype is good. Fabricated hype is where the problem lies. You did well :)

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Oh and if "what if they get carried in their placements" is a problem I know a good way to fix that. S O L O A R E N A

W E D O N '  T H A V E T H E P O P U L A T I O N

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Oh and if "what if they get carried in their placements" is a problem I know a good way to fix that. S O L O A R E N A

or S E A R C H P R E F E R E N C E S 

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