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Halo World Championship 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Snakebite and Frosty are discussing their disliking of the veto system, which gives teams the potential to ignore their weak gametypes. I can't help but agree.

 

Should the veto system be modified or abolished?

I've said this from the beginning it's fine in pro league but at live tournaments there needs to be fixed game types
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I've never thought radar would ever actually be taken out at all. so for me I'm not disappointed at all and like the changes.

 

I've just accepted that radar will always be in H5 and decided I still like it regardless. Yeah it sucks it's in competitive play, but this weekend was honestly pretty lit so I don't think no radar would change that fact too drastically.

 

Sucks to see radar being such a deal breaker for so many people but I do see that side of the fence too.

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false equivalence 101: yeah because no radar is going to magically make everyone but NV/OG better. 

I specifically asked at the end "Why risk it?" If this is a narrative that 343 would like to push, and if the majority of players outside of our community don't care about radar (which they don't), why risk making a major change that could upset this balance? Yes, nV and OG could take off and become even better than the rest of the teams without radar, or maybe they will both be awful with radar by the time worlds comes around. But right now, the highest probability to keep this narrative going is to keep radar, so if that's important to 343 (which who knows, maybe it's not important at all) then they will probably be interested in keeping radar.

 

 

From someone who has always been and still is on the fence about radar, I have to say this is a fantastic post.

Thanks! As someone who enjoys your posts a lot, especially the ones trying to offer new perspectives on issues, this means a lot.

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Made a post about each of the map changes but it didn't post.  :mj:

 

Truth and Fathom looking the best they've been.  Autos are the #1 issue to me and glad to see SRs removed on maps or moved to locations on Regret and Truth that will be naded to hell. I can't imagine no radar if an auto nerf isn't addressed first.

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Eden

  • Shotgun replaced with Silenced AR
  • Sniper spawn moved slightly away from Barrels

 

Mercy is now in testing!

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Eden

  • Shotgun replaced with Silenced AR
  • Sniper spawn moved slightly away from Barrels

 

Mercy is now in testing!

 

Any idea if Mercy settings have been changed from default? I frankly don't see that map working at all, but there's no way it can work with a SAW and Gravity Hammer.

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Any idea if Mercy settings have been changed from default? I frankly don't see that map working at all, but there's no way it can work with a SAW and Gravity Hammer.

 

 

Gravity Hammer is removed entirely but SAW is still present on Slayer, which leads me to believe that Strongholds is the only gametype being tested at the moment. I could be wrong, but the map just went live so it could still be being modified for more competitive viability. The Storm Rifle is also converted to Tier 2 to align with the other maps.

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all the changes are good, for sure, but I feel like (1) nerfing autos and (2) trying spartan-ability-only radar are more important.  glad to hear they're taking out Stasis, at least.  

 

also Mercy is a beautiful map but I reaaaaaaally don't see it working competitively ... ground pound and thruster break the map, you can literally jump from anywhere to anywhere, all of the logic/strategy of playing H4 Haven are meaningless.  It's not a map that is built for H5 and hence doesn't really work imo

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I don't think we're seeing radical changes because 343 may be happy with the way the game plays.

 

We have slow tense moments, we have very fast frantic moments. We have ninjas, no scopes, a lot of weapon diversity, a lot of different abilities/techniques that are obvious to the viewer. We have gametypes that play very differently, we have fast gametypes like Empire strongholds and slower ones like Eden strongholds. We have maps that are a struggle to move the flag across the map (Fathom) and ones where the flag is moved around a lot (Colliseum). We have setup heavy slayers like Plaza, and fast paced rotation slayers like Rig (sometimes).

 

This makes a game that's very fast paced and exciting to watch. I get it, a lot of people here think that the game would be more exciting to watch/play without radar, but instead of committing to that 343 can stick with settings that they already know will produce the narrative they're hoping to drive. The first year was a lot of learning how to play the game (finding flag routes, strongholds becoming more rotation based compared to heavily set up based, movement usage), if Halo 6 was coming in 2017, perhaps the narrative of 2017 is perfecting everything learned and seeing the game pushed to the limits, then resetting the meta with Halo 6.

 

The storylines with the teams are already there. We have The dominant run by Optic/CLG, then nV worked up the ranks and we know can be at the top spot. Now it's a battle of the two titans over the next year. All of this potentially goes up in smoke if they remove radar and , something that most players don't actually care about. Why risk it?

 

By the way, I wouldn't mind seeing radar removed, or at least heavily tested. I'm just throwing out another perspective as to why removing radar may not be as obvious as we think.

I'm not buying the idea that preserving some "narratives" are a sufficient reason for stifling the competitive potential of the game.

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I specifically asked at the end "Why risk it?" If this is a narrative that 343 would like to push, and if the majority of players outside of our community don't care about radar (which they don't), why risk making a major change that could upset this balance? Yes, nV and OG could take off and become even better than the rest of the teams without radar, or maybe they will both be awful with radar by the time worlds comes around. But right now, the highest probability to keep this narrative going is to keep radar, so if that's important to 343 (which who knows, maybe it's not important at all) then they will probably be interested in keeping radar.

 

 

Thanks! As someone who enjoys your posts a lot, especially the ones trying to offer new perspectives on issues, this means a lot.

again false equivalence. this only works if you outright ignore that most of the guys on these teams have ever played without radar, and we have years of evidence to the contrary. snip3down, pistola, royal 2, snakebite, lethul and mikwen didn't start playing comp halo with h5. most of their playstyles (especially ola) thrive without it. never mind that these two teams consist of some the same guys from top teams of the last no radar comp halo title, h2a. hell reach had no radar with sprint so dont give me the "halo 5 plays different without radar" argument. 

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I'm honestly so confused by the lack of even testing no radar. Who are we trying to appeal to by keeping radar in?

 

- Those aware of the HCS but blindly hate it for whatever reason?

- Those who have never heard of the HCS and probably won't ever tune in if they do hear about it?

- Those who have never heard of the HCS and do tune in but who wouldn't question the lack of radar anyway?

- Some other group I haven't mentioned?

 

It's not like it's a complicated job. I bet if someone went and turned off radar on all the game types right now they'd be done in under 5 minutes and most of that would be spent waiting for their Xbox and H5 to load up.

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Any idea if Mercy settings have been changed from default? I frankly don't see that map working at all, but there's no way it can work with a SAW and Gravity Hammer.

The gravity hammer hate never makes sense to me. How are people ok with a sword that gives you a speed boost for no reason, with ridiculous lunges but can hate a weapon where you have to be close to your enemy for it to kill them?

 

 

The saw isnt there on strongholds. Neither are the lifts, which is why I wonder if ghost will add jump ups from bottom to the streets

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Eden

  • Shotgun replaced with Silenced AR
  • Sniper spawn moved slightly away from Barrels

 

Mercy is now in testing!

What is up with this new 343 silenced AR fetish. Very random weapon to all of a sudden put on a bunch of maps. 

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Eden

  • Shotgun replaced with Silenced AR
  • Sniper spawn moved slightly away from Barrels

 

Mercy is now in testing!

 

MORE HOT OFF THE PRESSES

 

  • Empire Slayer and/or CTF now in testing w/ new layout (OS/Camo/Plasma Pistol, no Shotgun, no SMGs, same as Strongholds)
  • Empire Strongholds potentially removed? No word until Quinn/Ghost let us know.
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While we are at it can we please remove grenade hit markers? They provide way too much information to players. 

I've been thinking a lot about that lately. I understand the reasons for it considering the movement, but I just feel like the frag blast radius is more like a tactical nuke than a grenade. Paired with the hit markers is unnecessary. There was absolutely no reason to have hit markers in Halo to begin with. Absolutely 0. You can justify sprint, radar and hell, loadouts more than hit markers.

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