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CyReN

Halo World Championship 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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The H3 BRs inefficiency as weapon is seperate from its difficulty to use. It was still a fairly difficult utility weapon in the grand scheme of Halo games. Halo Reach had more shooting skill across the board than Halo 5, based largely on the increased difficulty on the power weapons available in comparison, otherwise they seem pretty similar to me. H2A was a joke as far as shooting difficulty, as is Halo 4. 

 

Halo 3 > Halo Reach (TU) > Halo 5 > Halo 2 > Halo 2 Anniversary > Halo 4 is my order of shooting skill involved in the various different titles. Pistol fights are certainly quite skillful, but the Halo 5 sandbox from a competitive perspective is lacking as a whole compared to a few of the Halo games. 

Yeah, honestly pistol fights in H5 remind me a lot of Reach no bloom DMR fights. (Thats a good thing imo). I just wish the snipe was more like Reach's as well.

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Halo 5s guns have more auto aim then H4. I played a match the other day in MCC and couldn't believe how much harder the DMR felt in comparison to 5, which should say plenty. And halo 4 has GOOD aiming on top of that. Even the most difficult gun in H5 (the pistol) is difficult because 1: the dogshit aiming, 2: ridiculous thrusts, and 3: having a generally faster strafe than everyone Halo except H2. If you were to stick that pistol into any other Halo game you'd see exactly how easy it is to use, all the challenge comes from stupid artificial barriers. Nothing about Halo 5s gunplay mechanics are skillful.

 

 

You could make an argument for Halo 5 movement being more technically intensive but I believe the skill jumps in past Halos were much harder than any jump that uses thrust/stabilize/hover whatever. And that's not even mentioning that I find crouch jumping a better mechanic as a whole than all the things I just named.

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The only thing difficult in H3 was sniping, the BR was so random and so short ranged that to kill someone with it you had to be close range or teamshooting. And in H2 you couldn't missed with the BR even if you tried.

I know we like to Hate 343 , but the pistol on pistol fights are somewhat skillful.

I hated the BR in H3 but there were some people that could do some real damage at long range with it. And H3 had the biggest difference in how it played between online and lan. On the list of all halo weapons, the skillfulness of the H3 br is near the top of the list, only hampered by its randomness.

 

The BR in H2 was super sticky but it didnt bend bullets around corners like pretty much every H5 weapon does. The button glitches were a happy accident but they added skill too.

 

In H5 thrust adds a little something to gunfights maybe, but its totally negated by the ease of use of most of the weapons.

 

On balance there is nothing that makes pistol battles in h5 more skillful than BR battles in 2 or 3.

 

Add in op autos and easy PWs and the situation gets worse.

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I agree with the main body of this post. But, out of curiosity: where "should" you be?

Rereading that part made me flinch a little bit. Makes it sound like I don't like certain aspects of the game because I'm not as skilled in those areas, or that's what's holding me back from being good again. That's not the case. What I meant was, in previous Halo's A, B, and C were really important aspects, and D, E, F were somewhat useful but not really necessary. Halo 5 scrapped A and B. C is somewhat useful to have but not necessary. D, E, and F and mandatory to be even average now. There's a lot to it and I know I didn't include specifics. That's mostly because some of the changes were good, some of the changes were bad. I'm biased as to what changed were good vs bad and I don't want to get into it. Basically for better or for worse, being good at Halo 5 is very different than being good at Halo 1-3. Some transfers, a lot does not.

 

In this game you need more mechanical skill than older halo, the new movement mechanics have definitely increased the skill gap, Lunch can no longer cruise on having good decision making, he actually have to win 1v1

"than older halo"

 

I'm assuming you're talking about Halo 3 because that's usually how this conversation goes. The gunskill in H5 pistol 1v1s and H3 BR 1v1s is not better or worse. It's simply different. Both are different skills that different players excel at. Some people excel at both of course, and some excel at neither. Winning 1v1s was never really important in games like Halo 3 if you had a squad that was next level teamwork/decision making-wise. Saying you need more mechanical skill in this game can't be a statement taken seriously until radar/autos are removed and the aiming is completely fixed. The new movement mechanics. Again another skill that replaced lots of previous talents. The skill is of a different type than we've seen before, but it sacrifices lots of old skills that I believe increased the skill gap more than the new abilities. Old movement was more skillful and added more depth to the game than the new abilities. I truly believe this and I've given the abilities lots of time to prove me wrong and I have yet to see it. There's more to this, but I'd like to leave it here. I don't really feel like typing out multiple pages of gameplay mechanical analysis like numerous community members have done and been ignored. Also you forgot when talking about gunskill that the percentage of influence pistols have in games vs power weapons/autos compared to BR/Sniper in H3 is pretty big difference.

 

edit: I also wanted to point out that out of all the movement options in H5, the one that most old players would keep would be thruster. I'm not sure if I would simply because of the free escape effect on thruster is almost more than with sprint. Also being able to dodge grenades with thruster is pretty annoying imho.

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I hated the BR in H3 but there were some people that could do some real damage at long range with it. And H3 had the biggest difference in how it played between online and lan. On the list of all halo weapons, the skillfulness of the H3 br is near the top of the list, only hampered by its randomness.

 

The BR in H2 was super sticky but it didnt bend bullets around corners like pretty much every H5 weapon does. The button glitches were a happy accident but they added skill too.

 

In H5 thrust adds a little something to gunfights maybe, but its totally negated by the ease of use of most of the weapons.

 

On balance there is nothing that makes pistol battles in h5 more skillful than BR battles in 2 or 3.

 

Add in op autos and easy PWs and the situation gets worse.

The weapons balance is screwed up in h5, but i dont think there is any argument against the h5 magnum being more skillful than the h2br. The latter being the easiest starting weapon the series has ever known. Actually, just about every gun in h2 was either worthless, or really easy. The h3 BR had too much randomness to be guilty of rewarding skill .

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Playing against people who aren't trying their asses off every engagement and strafing like crazy and sweating, yes i can see how it seems easy to shoot and how thrusting just seems like a get away tactic or whatever, but when people are trying to be as good as possible, there is a lot they can do to be better than their opponents.  The skill gap is very high in this game as far as individual skill, in my opinion. 

 

100% this. I'm Onyx 2800+, when I play against Diamonds or really low Onyx people in Team Arena using smurfs or Team Skirmish I can easily drop 30 kills and die less than 10 times. I don't even consider myself good at this game but if H5 isn't a skillful game then how can you explain the absurd skill gap.

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100% this. I'm Onyx 2800+, when I play against Diamonds or really low Onyx people in Team Arena using smurfs or Team Skirmish I can easily drop 30 kills and die less than 10 times. I don't even consider myself good at this game but if H5 isn't a skillful game then how can you explain the absurd skill gap.

I can go 30-0 in Call of Duty. How do you explain that absurd gap?
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H5 is very skillful, unfortunately most of that is negated at the moment because I can crouch with an AR and kill anyone I get the jump on thanks to radar.

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Hi Everyone!

 

I finally got some free time to put together the final fall season Elo ratings:

 

UdKHuzq.png

 

Envy barely edged out Optic at the end, but Optic did reach the highest Elo rating of the season (and beat their own unadjusted Season 1 record). It was a great season and I'm really looking forward to HWC 2017!

I am just curious since I don't know how this works, but leading to the end of pro league when we 3-0d OpTic up to the next open event we won and season finals which we won, how are ratings adjusted? Obviously up to OC and after OpTic would be highest, but in terms of dominance their season 1 ratings would be way higher, they barely lost anything. I am not flaming I'm generally just curious. Also, if this is just starting at Season 2 wouldn't we all technically start at the exact same Elo rating then progress from there?? I also don't understand where the second dip in our rating comes from since we didn't lose after OC
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100% this. I'm Onyx 2800+, when I play against Diamonds or really low Onyx people in Team Arena using smurfs or Team Skirmish I can easily drop 30 kills and die less than 10 times. I don't even consider myself good at this game but if H5 isn't a skillful game then how can you explain the absurd skill gap.

I played thousands of games in H3 I was a MLG 50 and I think that H5 is still a more skill rewarding game, I think the individual is more capable in this game, and when you have a group of incredibly skilled player that have great teamwork you have OG and NV that can make the competition look like amateurs.
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Guys, I've been playing overwatch and I can't believe that they don't have radar to make the game less chaotic and help you keep track of characters who can teleport, jetpack, or sprint.

 

If they put radar in they might have a game that's as competitive and popular as halo 5.

Widowmaker has promethean vision <Kappa Emote> :kappa: 

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I played thousands of games in H3 I was a MLG 50 and I think that H5 is still a more skill rewarding game, I think the individual is more capable in this game, and when you have a group of incredibly skilled player that have great teamwork you have OG and NV that can make the competition look like amateurs.

I was a 50 in H3, and an made it to onyx 1800 in this game (I'm far from good). The awareness needed in this game due to the speed of movement is much more demanding than in H3 imo. Predicting where the other team is moving and putting youself in position to counter or cut them off came much easier in H3 than it does in H5. Autos and radar can give a lesser skilled player a kill that wasn't worked for though. If you nerf autos and remove Radar then I would think H5 would be the 2nd most competitive Halo game we've had.

 

Surely the increase in auto aim is due to the increased number of movement mechanics. I could imagine that decreasing the amount of auto aim would hurt the noncompetitive scene since kill times are longer than they are in CoD.

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I think I was at my best skill wise during the late Halo 3 days, in terms of shot, but I also grinded the game about 3-4 hours a day, during Halo 2 it was 5-7 hours a day. I'm 26 years old now with a full-time job so its hard for me to log more than 5 hours of playing time a week into Halo 5, partly due to the fact that I'm mostly playing on my own and I don't have the best setup currently. Halo 5 in general is weird to play for me because I feel I have to have great gaming setup in order to play at my absolute best. Hell, I purchased an elite controller solely to keep up with other players in this game. Halo 5 in my opinion has a big skill gap. Not so much in the shooting, but more in the movement is where the skill is displayed. In other Halos I could literally get on and shit on players after not playing for a few days, but in Halo 5 its not possible for me. The movement in this game is what separates good players from great players and this also why I feel I can never play at my full potential in this game. In order to improve your movement in this game you literally have to grind which isn't possible for me anymore.

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I think H5 had potential, but the weapon balance in this game was definitely meant to be a crutch for bad players.

 

You can't trust them to make a decent weapon. Even the grenade launcher is too powerful.

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The only thing difficult in H3 was sniping, the BR was so random and so short ranged that to kill someone with it you had to be close range or teamshooting. And in H2 you couldn't missed with the BR even if you tried.

I know we like to Hate 343 , but the pistol on pistol fights are somewhat skillful.

People always give 343 shit for being stubborn, but bungies vision for the br was always to have spread even if it was a detriment to the game. Pre-patch h2 br was better than h3 but similar in effect.

 

 

I remember vash was the only player to complain about the patch, because he felt the br no longer took skill to shoot.

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I am just curious since I don't know how this works, but leading to the end of pro league when we 3-0d OpTic up to the next open event we won and season finals which we won, how are ratings adjusted? Obviously up to OC and after OpTic would be highest, but in terms of dominance their season 1 ratings would be way higher, they barely lost anything. I am not flaming I'm generally just curious. Also, if this is just starting at Season 2 wouldn't we all technically start at the exact same Elo rating then progress from there?? I also don't understand where the second dip in our rating comes from since we didn't lose after OC

I would imagine the dip is from losing a series to liquid at vegas

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I would imagine the dip is from losing a series to liquid at vegas

Vegas isn't included in elo stuff because not all big teams were there and too much to track

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