Jump to content
CyReN

Halo World Championship 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

Recommended Posts

At a glance, HCE and H2 are similar mechanically, thats because the mechanical differences aren't really recognized visually.

 

But you CANNOT play H:CE like you would H2, because so many of the underlying mechanics are different. And maps are designed differently due to those mechanical differences.

Uh, you can most definitely play h2 just like HCE until you start to get decently high up in the meta of HCE.

 

That is the brilliance of HCE. The entry level of it is so simple but then there are just fucking layers and layers and layers that reveal themselves. H2's entry level is virtually identical to the average player. It just lacks the depth.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

When I mean "core", I'm talking about the basics. Walking, shooting, throwing grenades, driving vehicles, punching people, etc.

 

I.E. the things that Little Jimmy likes to do after his mom got him H2 for Christmas, and the millions of people like him. The same guys on random subreddits who go "man I miss Halo " when something related gets tons of upvotes.

 

When they pick up the controller and start playing the game, those are the things that they recognise, not the details like melee damage, auto-aim, jump speed, fall damage, etc which they honestly don't give two shit's about. I would almost guarantee you that sales would have been exactly the same if all those details you mentioned weren't changed from CE (with the small exception of duel wielding which was a gimmick the kids loved.)

 

-

 

I'm going to elaborate. Halo 2 added two main extra... let's call them "button actions". First was duel weilding, second was hijacking. Both added a bit of depth to the game but were most importantly fun. The core inputs remained simple.

 

Halo 3 added a couple button actions on top of that. First was equipment, second was removing turrets. Again, both were considered super fun by casuals and definitely helped enforced Bungie's main theme of everything being fun.

 

Halo Reach replaced equipment with armour abilities. Regardless of their poor design, they were still somewhat fun, although because you always had them you were definitely pressing the button a lot more. Reach maintained a healthy casual population considering the context, and despite the other shit like bloom and sword base. I'll skip Halo 4.

 

Halo 5 added default sprint, clamber, ground pound, Smart Scope, spartan charge, slide, thruster and stabilize. So many new things that during the beta they struggled to fit everything on the one controller. Now fitting with Bungies theme, are these thing fun? That's up to you. I'd argue maybe groundpound is fun and thruster might be, depending on who you ask, but my point is Halo 5 has a relatively insane number of inputs you have to engage with to actually move around the map.

 

That's why you have so many casuals complaining about Halo 5 being "too MLG". It's not something you can just pick up and play, because now your friend (who you can't play split screen with) has to teach you what each button does, and you have to actively press every button on the controller just to compete with other players. I mean, you refuse to use all of the AA's, but that means moving terribly slowly as fucking anime ninja's dance and slide around you like it's Dragon Ball Z and suddenly you're playing Mario Bros while everyone else is playing Street Fighter.

 

It's not really fun. And even if you think it's fun, it definitely isn't casual. So when you add all this, on top of a shit campaign, on top of no split screen, on top of no firefight, on top of no social playlists at launch, on top of no fileshare, on top of a cryptic UI, on top of no actual progression system...

You get Little Jimmy not enjoying the game. You get scores of people who used to like Halo, not buying the game.

All of those core things you mentioned were changed from halo ce to 2 though... shrugs

 

I get what you are saying here, and i agree to an extent. Bungie's changes were well recieved and 343 were not. But bungie was never against changing core mechanics, they were just better at it.

 

Removing stun and fall damaged inarguably changed the way you move around maps AND how maps were designed...just like sprint. You just didn't give a shit about it in H2 because you found the new movement options to be fun.

 

Uh, you can most definitely play h2 just like HCE until you start to get decently high up in the meta of HCE.

 

That is the brilliance of HCE. The entry level of it is so simple but then there are just fucking layers and layers and layers that reveal themselves. H2's entry level is virtually identical to the average player. It just lacks the depth.

I said you cant play H:CE like H2 :).

 

Well you can try, but you'll die all the time.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Halo 2 complaint comparison

I think its funny how close the complaints are to being the same thing while at the same time they're referencing two very different degrees of change. The changes from CE to H2 might have been in the same vein but comparing sniping in CE to H2 then H2 to H5 (since we love to do this here with H3) and you can say they're now easier and complain in both cases but that doesn't quantify how much easier or whatever. This basically applies to all complaints because nobody really ever puts objective and concrete data into their opinion posts about things like this. So they might look and sound similar while being vastly different in reality.

 

Bungie is just way better at "feel" when they change things. It might be different but they understand on some level the feel of the game and thus know how to change things without making it feel totally alien.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I think its funny how close the complaints are to being the same thing while at the same time they're referencing two very different degrees of change. The changes from CE to H2 might have been in the same vein but comparing sniping in CE to H2 then H2 to H5 (since we love to do this here with H3) and you can say they're now easier and complain in both cases but that doesn't quantify how much easier or whatever. This basically applies to all complaints because nobody really ever puts objective and concrete data into their opinion posts about things like this. So they might look and sound similar while being vastly different in reality.

 

Bungie is just way better at "feel" when they change things. It might be different but they understand on some level the feel of the game and thus know how to change things without making it feel totally alien.

I mean this is essentially what I've been saying. Bungie changed core mechanics all the time. They were just better at it. To the extent that people have forgotten that massive changes had taken place or admit that they "didn't give a shit" about them despite the impact on gameplay and map design.

 

PS: H2 sniping was easy as fuck.it was easy for different reasons, but it was just as if not easier than h5.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

When people refer to the first 3 games as feeling classic, I can only assume they mean that they're talking about no loadouts, no abilities, and having precision weapons that play strong roles in the sandbox. That's it.

 

The changes from Halo CE to Halo 2 are incredibly drastic to me.

  • Upvote (+1) 5

Share this post


Link to post

I mean this is essentially what I've been saying. Bungie changed core mechanics all the time. They were just better at it. To the extent that people have forgotten that changes have taken place or admit that they "didn't give a shit" about them despite the impact on gameplay and map design.

 

PS H2 sniping was easy as fuck.it was easy for different reasons, but it was just as if not easier than h5.

Now you've done it. Lol.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

You guys can't be following the Gears scene very close. TC has been downright scummy with the treatment of their game. They make 343 look like saints with the way they handle their microtransactions, game updates, weapon tuning, and general communications. They do an alright job with the eSports scene, but the general game is in a bad state.

 

Yeah, I am. Literally the only thing here that is accurate is the microtransaction system (which IS bad). Please do explain how they have been "scummy" in any of these other respects. They communicate consistently, their patches have been more significant and transparent. The weapon tuning? How in the fuck do they make 343 look like saints with the WEAPON tuning? 343 literally hasn't DONE ANY and theirs is entirely built around their "buy our microtransactions" cash cow game mode, while they provide nothing but lip service to competitive. What?

 

 

I don't think a lot of people in this forum plays Gears and just watch the eSports scene from a distance. The game itself is one of the worst implementations of micro transactions in all of the currently available titles.

 

I do play it and, frankly, a bad cosmetic unlock system is pretty much the least of my worries. I would take a good Halo game with a somewhat worse microtransaction  system over a shitty Halo game that does it slightly better. I guess we can give 343 credit for making a slightly less awful, transparently manipulative gambling system? Great?

  • Upvote (+1) 5
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

All of those core things you mentioned were changed from halo ce to 2 though... shrugs

 

I get what you are saying here, and i agree to an extent. Bungie's changes were well recieved and 343 were not. But bungie was never against changing core mechanics, they were just better at it.

 

Removing stun and fall damaged inarguably changed the way you move around maps AND how maps were designed...just like sprint. You just didn't give a shit about it in H2 because you found the new movement options to be fun.

 

I said you cant play H:CE like H2 :).

 

Well you can try, but you'll die all the time.

You will die if you're playing good players. The vast majority of people play H2 and HCE the exact same way.

Share this post


Link to post

All of those core things you mentioned were changed from halo ce to 2 though... shrugs

 

I get what you are saying here, and i agree to an extent. Bungie's changes were well recieved and 343 were not. But bungie was never against changing core mechanics, they were just better at it.

 

Removing stun and fall damaged inarguably changed the way you move around maps AND how maps were designed...just like sprint. You just didn't give a shit about it in H2 because you found the new movement options to be fun.

 

I said you cant play H:CE like H2 :).

 

Well you can try, but you'll die all the time.

You've really missed the point.

 

Basically, CE-Reach were exceptionally simple to learn and to have fun with.

Halo 5 is complicated to learn because of its extra mechanics and buttons to press, and by extension harder to have fun with.

 

H5 requires more effort from the player to interact with the game, which makes it more difficult to play casually.

 

Bungie games were always easy to pick up and play, 343 games are not. This is one of the defining factors of our declining playerbase and is why - regardless of your own comparisons to Bungies titles - Halo 5 has done so poorly.

  • Upvote (+1) 2
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

So a few of my buddies and I were talking about Spartan Abilities compared to anything prior implemented into Halo 1, 2 or 3. First thought was hijacking vehicles is somewhat of a spartan ability. Then we thought about equipment. Hijacking obviously worked out better than equipment, but we thought some more and honestly, the closest bungie ever got to spartan abilities were the button glitches in Halo 2. Obviously it was widely successful then. bxr, bxb, etc were the original spartan abilities. They were near instant kills if done right, and took combos to perform. Just an interesting convo we had, wanted to see what you guys thought. I never played Halo 2 competitively. My local scene stuck with HCE and went straight to H3.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

You've really missed the point.

 

Basically, CE-Reach were exceptionally simple to learn and to have fun with.

Halo 5 is complicated to learn because of its extra mechanics and buttons to press, and by extension harder to have fun with.

 

H5 requires more effort from the player to interact with the game, which makes it more difficult to play casually.

 

Bungie games were always easy to pick up and play, 343 games are not. This is one of the defining factors of our declining playerbase and is why - regardless of your own comparisons to Bungies titles - Halo 5 has done so poorly.

What makes you think i missed that point. Thats the part i said i agree with... shrugs

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

So a few of my buddies and I were talking about Spartan Abilities compared to anything prior implemented into Halo 1, 2 or 3. First thought was hijacking vehicles is somewhat of a spartan ability. Then we thought about equipment. Hijacking obviously worked out better than equipment, but we thought some more and honestly, the closest bungie ever got to spartan abilities were the button glitches in Halo 2. Obviously it was widely successful then. bxr, bxb, etc were the original spartan abilities. They were near instant kills if done right, and took combos to perform. Just an interesting convo we had, wanted to see what you guys thought. I never played Halo 2 competitively. My local scene stuck with HCE and went straight to H3.

You can't compare them. With spartan abilities, you press one button and something happens.

With button combos, you have to sequence multiple buttons with specific timing for you to do what you want, while risking readiness if you fail. It's more comparable to H5's own button combos like thrust sliding and insta-powerup.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

So a few of my buddies and I were talking about Spartan Abilities compared to anything prior implemented into Halo 1, 2 or 3. First thought was hijacking vehicles is somewhat of a spartan ability. Then we thought about equipment. Hijacking obviously worked out better than equipment, but we thought some more and honestly, the closest bungie ever got to spartan abilities were the button glitches in Halo 2. Obviously it was widely successful then. bxr, bxb, etc were the original spartan abilities. They were near instant kills if done right, and took combos to perform. Just an interesting convo we had, wanted to see what you guys thought. I never played Halo 2 competitively. My local scene stuck with HCE and went straight to H3.

Spartan abilities in the old ones would be more like duel wielding and stuff than button combos.

Share this post


Link to post

What makes you think i missed that point. Thats the part i said i agree with... shrugs

My point is that H2 is """basically""" the same as CE, and all the mechanics it did add or change had fuck-all to do with it's huge success.

Share this post


Link to post

My point is that H2 is """basically""" the same as CE, and all the mechanics it did add or change had fuck all to do with it's huge success.

Its NOT 'basically' the same as CE. And if you don't think streamlining the gameplay and making it more accessible didnt have ANYTHING to do with its success i dont know what to tell you, other than you are wrong. Bungie wouldnt have made those changes if they didnt think it would allow more people to have more fun with the game.

 

But you are right in that the changes bungie made were better recieved as fun additions to the sandbox.

Share this post


Link to post

THIS IS THE HWC 2017 THREAD. Not the H5 one, and certainly not the CE-to-H2 debate one. 

 

:uncledrew:  :uncledrew:  :uncledrew:  :uncledrew:

  • Upvote (+1) 9
  • Downvote (-1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

Halo World Championship 2017 Teams, Seeds, CE vs H2 and Discussion

This is the only post on this page that concerns the Halo World Championship 2017 Teams, Seeds and Discussion‏.

 

Lol

 

Edit: Damn, beaten to the complaint punch.

  • Upvote (+1) 2
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Let's get back on topic.

Which of the teams that is playing in the 2017 Halo World Championship do you think will best take advantage of the new silenced AR meta?

OpTiC Gaming. As their namesake implies, they excel in visual acuity. Being denied auditory feedback will hinder them the least.

  • Upvote (+1) 7

Share this post


Link to post

Let's get back on topic.

Which of the teams that is playing in the 2017 Halo World Championship do you think will best take advantage of the new silenced AR meta?

 

The teams who didn't abuse Shotgun on Eden TS and Scattershot on Coli TS so much? 

 

Bye bye Royal 2 dominating with Shotty on Eden.

 

I see the silenced AR as just a way to replace power weapons while still giving noobs something to pick up and try to be sneaky with. I guess it could theoretically make a difference at levels where players don't use headphones.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

THIS IS THE HWC 2017 THREAD. Not the H5 one, and certainly not the CE-to-H2 debate one. 

 

:uncledrew:  :uncledrew:  :uncledrew:  :uncledrew:

I'm pretty sure that talking about Halo is more relevant than Emma Watson memes.

  • Upvote (+1) 5

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.