Jump to content
CyReN

Halo World Championship 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

Recommended Posts

Comparing Halo with Lol is imho only interesting from a business perspective. They are both competitive games and it is rather pointless to compare them as games because of obvious reasons. Halo5 is to League what Tesla is to Ford, from a size perspective. What would happen if Halo were free and on PC?

 

I love playing console but if halo on PC is what it takes to keeping competitive Halo alive for a long time I will adapt. I must adapt. I need Halo.

Share this post


Link to post

Get into topic see people again comparing Halo to LoL..

 

Every fucking time. This is not comparable, at all.

 

 

Also ApG making it sound like pros were all sharing their opinion on radar through the year, many pros said they prefered radar at the start of H5 and think some maps would still play bad wit No radar at all, and that the ability tracker would be better.

 

I don't know how you guys expected radar to be dropped before HWC17, it will be altered and that is ok.

People pretendig that dropping radar will make Halo so much more successful though are kidding themselves, there is nothing to prove these thoughts

  • Upvote (+1) 4

Share this post


Link to post

I get that you guys want certain things for Halo... but why can't everyone just accept this is Halo fucking 5. Not Halo 2, Not Halo 3, It's Halo 5.

 

Yes, radar in my opinion is a problem, it provides way too much free information - Ok. But when people complain about clamber, sprint, thrust, spartan abilities it baffles me. A game's gotta evolve. It's been, what, 15 years since Halo CE.

because they are all low skilled garbage and negatively affect the game

 

None of that is innovative game design

  • Upvote (+1) 13
  • Downvote (-1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

I get that you guys want certain things for Halo... but why can't everyone just accept this is Halo fucking 5. Not Halo 2, Not Halo 3, It's Halo 5.

 

Yes, radar in my opinion is a problem, it provides way too much free information - Ok. But when people complain about clamber, sprint, thrust, spartan abilities it baffles me. A game's gotta evolve. It's been, what, 15 years since Halo CE.

 

I agree with someone earlier who said the population won't ever reach Halo 2 / Halo 3 heights; there are far too many factors. New games like BF1, CoD (what a piece of shit), LoL, Overwatch... etc players moving on, people getting older... the interest just isn't what it was because it hasn't been as groundbreaking as it first was when it came out... like Apple and their stupid products over the past 2 years.

 

On the other hand it's taken far, far, far too long for 343 to react to what the community has been saying for months, which is disappointing but at least now they're realizing they fucked up and are slightly more quicker expedite changes. Halo is still one of the cleanest and purest shooters but you gotta let the game give a little.

 

 

#NoRadar

Go back to Waypoint.
  • Upvote (+1) 4
  • Downvote (-1) 22

Share this post


Link to post

Coming here to comment on the "spartan ability only radar" 

 

Why can't they just buff the sound of clamber, thrust, and footsteps when people are sprinting and just take out the radar completely? or would that be too much awareness for 343 to handle considering they put grenade hitmarkers, weapon timers on screen, spartan call outs, player flag markers, and radar in competitive.

 

Why does Halo have to be the fps where sound means very little? We have ears and headsets for a reason. 

  • Upvote (+1) 4
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Regarding people saying 343 took ages to respond to complaints about radar here's a post which Tashi made in HaloGAF:

 

 

There were definitely complaints about radar from the start, but the pros collectively didn't feel the need to change/update it until recently. But yea, I can see how someone who's been pushing for radar updates since launch would be pissed off. Definitely not the intention

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=226963864&postcount=7263

 

 

Also anecdotally I've only really noticed a big increase in complaints about radar recently. There's obviously been some people complaining from the start but at least from what I saw there weren't that many and definitely not from the pros.

 

because they are all low skilled garbage and negatively affect the game

None of that is innovative game design

Well that's debatable...
  • Upvote (+1) 7

Share this post


Link to post

Well that's debatable...

i'd love to see you provide some examples of how they positively affected the game

 

clamber: removed all skill jumps from halo

sprint: forced 343 to stretch all the maps

spartan charge:  :wutface:

 

i don't really have much of an issue with the other abilities, still unsure how i feel about thrust 

  • Upvote (+1) 6
  • Downvote (-1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

@@Towey does a fantastic job and I also enjoy everything he creates.

 

Content is one of the key elements to CoD being such a craze. I was even hooked for a little while and I don't enjoy that game at all. 

 

Take notes Halo Pros..... I haven't played COD since MW2, yet in the last 8 months I've been a huge OpTic Scump fan and watch them play at tournies. Not because I like COD, but because Scump is hilarious and pumps out vids like a champ. There is a reason he has 2 million subscribers on youtube. He gives me a reason to have rooting interest, which is literally the ONLY way I would ever watch a COD Tournament.

 

I'm sure putting out content is not easy to balance with all the other responsibilities some of these guys have, but honestly does any "Pro" other than @@Towey make consistent vids?

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Clamber did not remove 'all skill jumps from halo' - I'm all for discussion but let's not be ridiculous

pls enlighten me because as a former jump lord i haven't seen anything from the entire year of competitive halo i just witnessed 

 

it's really skillful how you slide into a ramp and you grab onto a ledge  :kappa:

 

Clamber absolutely did not remove all skill jumps. It changed them and made them require a slightly different skill set. Halo 5's skill jumps are more focused on the build up and mid jump rather the landing as well as requiring a lot of nerdy knowledge. Frosty definitely wouldn't be able to pull off a lot of the crazy shit that he does without clamber.

see above post

 

make it so you can shoot whilst clambering

i think i'm gonna be sick

  • Upvote (+1) 4
  • Downvote (-1) 15

Share this post


Link to post

Sorry, but Clamber does NOT require skill. It severely diminishes the skill gap. I like clamber personally but it is not skillful

 

Consider any situation where a player shorts a crouch jump and can just clamber up. The player made an unskillful play and the penalty is that he is put into a really short animation, and it takes .2 seconds longer to make said jump. 

 

A player missing that same exact jump in a previous Halo would be massively punished for shorting the same exact jump. Depending on the jump the punishment ranging from losing a power position to falling off the map.

 

I'm not a particularly skilled player, but I can make just about all the jumps the pro's consistently.

 

Also, pandering for upvotes #NORADAR

I agree that the act of clambering itself is not skillful, I never claimed that. What I said is that the presence of clamber does not remove skill jumps from the game, which is 100% true.

 

I would argue that clamber increases the number of possible nerdy jumps which a player can do. This increases the amount of nerdy knowledge a player can possess, which itself is a sort of skill imo. As I mentioned before one of the main reasons Frosty is such a standout player is the insane movement tricks and nerdy shit he pulls off. Without clamber he wouldn't be able to do a lot of that.  

 

Clamber itself isn't particularly skillful but it does allow for an increase in a different skill set.

  • Upvote (+1) 10
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I get that you guys want certain things for Halo... but why can't everyone just accept this is Halo fucking 5. Not Halo 2, Not Halo 3, It's Halo 5...

But when people complain about clamber, sprint, thrust, spartan abilities it baffles me. A game's gotta evolve. It's been, what, 15 years since Halo CE.

 

 

When people complain about getting the flu it baffles me. A person's gotta evolve.
  • Upvote (+1) 1
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Another cross post from HaloGAF, this time from Heytred:

 

 

 

I've been saying this for almost a year, even dating back to when I was with 343 Industries: 

Simply removing radar is not going to help. In order for that to be an even viable option you would have to do two things. 1) nerf the AR *and* 2) remove/nerf Spartan Charge. 

No radar only exacerbates the autos issue. No longer are autos ''balanced' by crouch. I know that sounds silly, but mobility is countered by the presence of radar. You think they are annoying now? Wait until a guy can spawn, flank, and spray with little to no repercussions. 

Don't get me started on no radar Spartan Charge...

No radar viability would either require the above or a full commitment to no radar BR starts and that opens a whole new can of worms regarding map movement, spawn traps, camping, etc. The maps and layout just are not optimized well for BRs and I don't see 343 making the sweeping changes necessary to make that the case.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=226966586&postcount=7265

 

I made a post arguing that removing radar would decrease auto usage and this was his response:

 

 

You could argue that, but sadly it's not the case. It's been tested extensively - autos in general are stronger with no radar because there are few repercussions for pushing into close range. 

Also, those scrims are not a good gauge of the direction the meta would take with no radar as it's played more. Just because they opt to utility weapons more, doesn't mean that's the 'best' way to play - and when money's on the line, pros are always going to do what gives them the best chance to win.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=226967208&postcount=7267

 

Basically it seems like 343 found that removing radar eventually increased auto usage. Maybe that's why the pro team decided the game would be better played competitively with radar.

  • Upvote (+1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

I agree that the act of clambering itself is not skillful, I never claimed that. What I said is that the presence of clamber does not remove skill jumps from the game, which is 100% true.

 

I would argue that clamber increases the number of possible nerdy jumps which a player can do. This increases the amount of nerdy knowledge a player can possess, which itself is a sort of skill imo. As I mentioned before one of the main reasons Frosty is such a standout player is the insane movement tricks and nerdy shit he pulls off. Without clamber he wouldn't be able to do a lot of that.  

 

Clamber itself isn't particularly skillful but it does allow for an increase in a different skill set.

 

I'm not saying that Frosty can't do skillful jumps, tricks, or clever movement with clamber. However, once he does something once on stream or in a scrim, the secret is lost and can usually be replicated. 

 

I honestly think Frosty would separate himself from the other players even more without clamber because it would be to risky for anyone to try his jumps at all due to the penalty. 

 

I agree that there are "clever" jumps but I would not call them "skill" jumps. I think that clamber DOES promote fluidity because it reduces the punishment for bad mechanics, and it DOES allow clever movement options that otherwise are impossible.

 

However, from a pure skill gap perspective it makes the game easier for people who suck at jumping. People like me. It is still a crutch and one that I lean on, I even find myself clambering to get on top of stronghold pillars because I'm so lazy with my jumping technique.

 

#NORADAR

  • Upvote (+1) 2
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Am I in the settings thread? Must have gotten lost in my London jet lag.

No this is the Discussion part of the "HWC 2017 Teams Seeds and Discussion" thread. 

  • Upvote (+1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

You are wrong, a perfect LoL player playing adc will destroy an entire team by himself, he will never miss a minion, will always sidestep all the skillshots like a robot, will kite like a god , will build the perfect item for the game, will have perfect back times and buys. Will have perfect shotcalling and will have perfect teamfighting. LoL has a higher skill ceiling and a higher skill gap than any console game ever.

I don't the the height of the skill ceiling or the Size of the gap is in question.

 

I think the argument is that LoL has a massive viewerbase due to its low barrier of entry (price, min specs) rather than on its merits as a spectator sport. If you compare it to traditional sports it's exponentially more complex, and many of the happenings on stream CANNOT be understood by a casual viewer.

 

If you watch a game of football (American) you don't have to have a deep understanding of the intricacies to understand what constitutes a good play or separates a good player from and average one. I read your discription of LoL and came away with "wtf"

 

Halo is inherently more primed to be a spectator sport due to its simplicity. Like America football, it's easy to understand what makes a good play, even if you don't understand the ins and outs of the meta.

Share this post


Link to post

God those first 2 words look so foreign. I can't watch this because as a spectator I am too confused. No radar isn't what I play therefore I cannot possibly watch gameplay with these settings.

 

Somehow you and @NavG123 went from two of my least favorite shitposters to two of my favorite posters in nearly record time

  • Upvote (+1) 2
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.