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CyReN

Halo World Championship 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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I think a "whirlwind" close range pistol fight is an aiming issue not a weapon issue.

 

The thing is, the AR does NOT serve a very specific purpose. Its got longer range than an auto should, does bonus headshot damage like 1/2 a precision weapon and is paired with random spread that sometimes awards headshots and sometimes doesnt regardless of accuracy.

 

If it had a consistently patterned spread, was only effective at close range and didnt do bonus headshot damage people wouldnt have as much of a problem with it.

I'm also thinking about the AR in relation to the weapons sandbox. Halo 5 makes all weapons viable options, unlike past games. So while you can argue about it's effective range, I'm afraid nerfs will make the AR like the Halo 3 version. The Halo 3 AR was useless, and I never want to have to deal with that crap again. 

 

Doesn't a consistent spread make the AR more reliable though? The risk of missing a shot reduces it's effectiveness, so the randomness can either reward/hurt players. 

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I'm also thinking about the AR in relation to the weapons sandbox. Halo 5 makes all weapons viable options, unlike past games. So while you can argue about it's effective range, I'm afraid nerfs will make the AR like the Halo 3 version. The Halo 3 AR was useless, and I never want to have to deal with that crap again.

 

Doesn't a consistent spread make the AR more reliable though? The risk of missing a shot reduces it's effectiveness, so the randomness can either reward/hurt players.

There is a LOT of middle ground between the H5 AR and the H3 AR where it could be a very effective weapon without having a par or better perfect TTK with the main "utility weapon".

 

And yes, consistent repeatable spread does make it more reliable, but it also makes it less random meaning the person with the better aim will actually win every time like they should. Right now the random spread will sometimes give the player with worse aim the win.

 

Reliability does not need to correlate with ease of use or damage output. You can definitely make a weapon more reliable and consistent while nerfing it at the same time

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This isn't really an argument because I can say that about anything.

 

"Shotgun starts are good because the shotgun serves a very specific purpose. Who wants to see up close whirlwind pistol fights?".

 

the real question is, what does a weapon that is incredibly easy to use and very strong at close range add to the competitive settings? If your answer is, "it fits the close range weapon role", that's circular logic.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. A shotgun can swing games in a few seconds because of it's one shot kill capabilities on multiple players. While an AR might help you win a fight, you aren't taking down three as fast a shotgun would.

 

There are tons of easy to use weapons in Halo 5, but how you approach those engagements is where the skill comes in. Someone can hold a tight space with an AR, but if I have a SMG, I'm winning that fight everyday. So the AR is powerful, sure, but there are many ways and weapons to deal with them. 

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There is a LOT of middle ground between the H5 AR and the H3 AR where it could be a very effective weapon without having a par or better perfect TTK with the main "utility weapon".

 

And yes, consistent repeatable spread does make it more reliable, but it also makes it less random meaning the person with the better aim will actually win every time like they should. Right now the random spread will sometimes give the player with worse aim the win.

 

Reliability does not need to correlate with ease of use

The bullet spread argument is similar to how weapons work in CS:GO. Random bullets might reward players in unfavorable situations, but the better player will more than likely come out on top. 

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The bullet spread argument is similar to how weapons work in CS:GO. Random bullets might reward players in unfavorable situations, but the better player will more than likely come out on top.

The bullet spread in CS isnt random though. It varies per gun but follows the same pattern whenever you fire, so you can learn to compensate. It actually makes the autos in that game very deep and skillful.

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The bullet spread in CS isnt random though. It varies per gun but follows the same pattern whenever you fire, so you can learn to compensate. It actually makes the autos in that game very deep and skillful.

The patterns have their own level of randomness, but I see what you mean. If you don't just hold down the trigger with the H5 AR, I think the approach to compensate for randomness is similar. Regardless, the RNG element is there, so sometimes someone will win fights they have no business winning. 

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I'm also thinking about the AR in relation to the weapons sandbox. Halo 5 makes all weapons viable options, unlike past games. So while you can argue about it's effective range, I'm afraid nerfs will make the AR like the Halo 3 version. The Halo 3 AR was useless, and I never want to have to deal with that crap again.

 

Doesn't a consistent spread make the AR more reliable though? The risk of missing a shot reduces it's effectiveness, so the randomness can either reward/hurt players.

AR is too powerful and accurate at mid range for my taste. I liked the suggestion of them being placed on the map vs a starting weapon if they are going to remain strong, or we could shorten the range and basically make it like the smg and remove the smg from the map
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The patterns have their own level of randomness, but I see what you mean. If you don't just hold down the trigger with the H5 AR, I think the approach to compensate for randomness is similar. Regardless, the RNG element is there, so sometimes someone will win fights they have no business winning.

I hear you. Even the randomness in CS is driven directly by the actions of the player though, so even in that case the player can know how much randomness is going to expand or compress the spray pattern based on whether they are standing, running, crouching, jumping etc. The autos in halo have none of those elements.

 

Im not even arguing that the autos in halo should be that deep, with aim assist and the relative innaccuracies of analog sticks compared to KBM its just not practical.

 

My argument is really that there are a ton of different ways to balance weapons creatively that could really take Halo to another level while getting rid of the OP nature of the autos and "sameness" of the sandbox as a whole, without blowing up everything that is already in place.

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It's an unpopular opinion here, but I think both weapons create more interesting situations than just having a BR.

In that case then I would absolutely love to see more pistol fights.

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Just catching up so this is kind of late, but.

 

Wow. If they ever did come out with H3A and made it the competitive game of choice, seems like a lot of you guys would be extra  :salt: about it. All of these no radar settings and having only BRs and no automatics would really just send you off a cliff. I liked halo 3, I thought it was competitive. Sure it had its flaws, but there has never been a video game that everyone has fully liked.

The only problem I had with H3 was playing it online. Basically had the same hit detection that Destiny does. On LAN, it was probably my favorite after H2.

 

If they fixed the online issues, I would play the fuck out of a hypothetical H3A.

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There is a LOT of middle ground between the H5 AR and the H3 AR where it could be a very effective weapon without having a par or better perfect TTK with the main "utility weapon".

 

And yes, consistent repeatable spread does make it more reliable, but it also makes it less random meaning the person with the better aim will actually win every time like they should. Right now the random spread will sometimes give the player with worse aim the win.

 

Reliability does not need to correlate with ease of use or damage output. You can definitely make a weapon more reliable and consistent while nerfing it at the same time

Prepare yourselves, for I am about to muster the bastard child of Halo.

 

In Halo 4, after I think the Turbo patch, I thought that the AR was in a pretty usable place.Could be used effectively up close, but if a close range precision weapon user had more chromosomes than fingers, the AR player would still lose most times.

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In the HWC thread, the summer thread, the fall thread, and this one. The only time I have ever seen woman mentioned is in a context like this. Like, apparently they only exist except to be fake or something.

 

 

 

You aren't. I firmly believe the only major change left that needs to be made is the removal of radar. Halo 5's sound design is good enough to the point where I can even hear the direction of reloads during a firefight.

 

I like the balance of the sandbox right now. Aside from minor changes to the setups of maps I think it's great. And I don't want auto's to be nerf'd to death to suit some people when removing radar fixes IMO the biggest problems with them.

LUL wut. Was referring to her hair. (Burnette turned blonde)
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The bullet spread argument is similar to how weapons work in CS:GO. Random bullets might reward players in unfavorable situations, but the better player will more than likely come out on top. 

Except that the AR spread isn't exactly random. Tapping the trigger for burst fire increases accuracy while holding it down decreases accuracy. 

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That's a bit of an exaggeration. A shotgun can swing games in a few seconds because of it's one shot kill capabilities on multiple players. While an AR might help you win a fight, you aren't taking down three as fast a shotgun would.

 

There are tons of easy to use weapons in Halo 5, but how you approach those engagements is where the skill comes in. Someone can hold a tight space with an AR, but if I have a SMG, I'm winning that fight everyday. So the AR is powerful, sure, but there are many ways and weapons to deal with them.

 

It's an exaggeration in order to illustrate the point that saying "this weapon just fulfills its role" is not sufficient reasoning. I don't really get the point of the smg argument that you're making. Sure, the game has weapons that are even easier and more overpowered. That doesn't mean that every close quarters engagement should have a strong possibility of degenerating into easy auto fights.
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as someone who is constantly having a sensitivity crisis, I checked the pros' current settings (according to Nightbot, at least) out of curiosity:

 

danoxide 3/3

snipedown 4/2
snakebite 4/2 or 3/4
naded 3/3
heinz 3/5 [4% inner deadzone]
batchford 4/1
bubu 3/3 [1% outer deadzone]
contra 4/3
huke 4/2
pistola 5/3
frosty 4/2
lethul 4/2
naded 3/3
ninja 4/3
ogre2 3/2
roy 3/1
suspector 3/4
turley 4/3

 

 

For those wondering how Roy plays on that slow of sens, he actually plays on 3 horizontal, 3 vertical, 1 accel.

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For those wondering how Roy plays on that slow of sense, he actually plays on 3 horizontal, 3 vertical, 1 accel.

99% sure he changed it. He was playing 3 sens 4 accel on one of his nost recent streams.

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as someone who is constantly having a sensitivity crisis, I checked the pros' current settings (according to Nightbot, at least) out of curiosity:

 

danoxide 3/3

snipedown 4/2
snakebite 4/2 or 3/4
naded 3/3
heinz 3/5 [4% inner deadzone]
batchford 4/1
bubu 3/3 [1% outer deadzone]
contra 4/3
huke 4/2
pistola 5/3
frosty 4/2
lethul 4/2
naded 3/3
ninja 4/3
ogre2 3/2
roy 3/1
suspector 3/4
turley 4/3

 

*changes sensitivity to 4/2*

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My sens is like 2.5 horizontal and 3.5 vertical with 1 accel. It might be the other way around whichever one makes more sense it's just .5 difference in each category from 4 sens.

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