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Halo World Championship 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Starting to sound like it's about that time to hitch our wagons to hopes of H6 being played competitively without radar. 

 

The cycle of "not enough time" to prepare/test/implement changes within H5's competitive settings will not end. Pros/players should focus on providing feedback on what they are working with, and not against at this point. Sucks to say the least, because I believe No Radar would be far more enjoyable to watch for the next year. 

 

Its coming from the players/teams on top right now. It doesnt benefit them personally in any way for the current game to change. If i was the best at some dumb setting like ARs only with unlimited splinter grenades then I wouldnt advocate for a change.

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TECHNICALLY, you can't say whether certain settings are objectively better for the game. I'm not sure why this is relevant though because then I can say that rocket starts are great and when people say I'm wrong I can just say, "who are you to say what's objectively better"? It's a pointless path to take.

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People are upset because we're sitting here hoping for changes and we find out from Neighbor that the pro team had to put it in a monumental effort just to get descoping in the game.

 

Except Neighbor specifically said that it wasn't a monumental effort, and he asked you guys to stop taking him out of context to frame that picture:

 

You're taking it out of context, I never said it was a struggle nor did I say our team solely "fixed" the features listed above. We just helped greatly with the process of the implementation of whats listed above and I wanted to provide some examples to the guy who said our team is just a "marketing tool used by 343". 

 

Based on this, I assume 343 didn't understand why the issues he listed were a big deal, and the pro team helped them understand.

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Also, I love that a potential EG (Roy, Lunchbox, bubu dubu, Shooter) is scrimming nV right now, but everyone's too caught up about radar or no radar to even notice (I'm in the no radar camp btw).

 

Never change Beyond. Never change.

I really wish roy or lunch were streaming this

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NOBODY IS UPSET THAT 343 HIRED PRO CONSULTANTS. You're the second person who's said this and I suspect you're going to be the second person who can't find a quote where someone says they're mad at 343 for hiring pro consultants.

 

People are upset because we're sitting here hoping for changes and we find out from Neighbor that the pro team had to put it in a monumental effort just to get descoping in the game.

Sigh.

 

No one is saying your mad simply because 343 hired consultants. As far as I can see you are mad because they need consultants. Which is silly. They recognized that they couldn't balance the game on their own, and went out and hired people that could help. And it appears to have worked.

 

You have arbitrarily determined that descope is a mechanic so 'basic' to halo that no one involved with the game should ever even consider changing it. However, equally 'basic fundamentals' have been subject to change ever since the series inception.

 

Individual empowering utility weapon v team shot

Fall damage v not

Health packs v health regen

Single v dual wielding

Niche weapons v weapons w/ similar use cases

Even Starts v Loadouts

Standard locomotion v armor abilities

 

There hasn't been a point in Halo history where seemingly basic ideals werent threatened by an ever present pressure to make the game more inviting to masses. Atleast 343 had sense enough to hire folks who succeeded in keeping them from going over the edge in this particular case. 'Pro Consultants' are something halo has needed for 12 years.

 

You also call their work a 'monumental' task, when it probably simply meant going to meetings and stating their case, while some other group stated a different case and those in charge deciding that the pro teams case was better.

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Except Neighbor specifically said that it wasn't a monumental effort, and he asked you guys to stop taking him out of context to frame that picture:

 

 

 

Based on this, I assume 343 didn't understand why the issues he listed were a big deal, and the pro team helped them understand.

Good to know. I'm still confused about what he meant when he said this, though:

 

"Descope: You can't grasp the amount of time, effort and energy our team spent on making sure this feature was implemented within our game."

 

Surely he didn't mean it was hard to program in the game?

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Sigh.

No one is saying your mad simply because 343 hired consultants. As far as I can see you are mad because they need consultants. Which is silly. They recognized that they couldn't balance the game on their own, and went out and hired people that could help. And it appears to have worked.

You have arbitrarily determined that descope is a mechanic so 'basic' to halo that no one involved with the game should ever even consider changing it. However, equally 'basic fundamentals' have been subject to change ever since the series inception.

Individual empowering utility weapon v team shot

Fall damage v not

Health packs v health regen

Single v dual wielding

Niche weapons v weapons w/ similar use cases

Even Starts v Loadouts

Standard locomotion v armor abilities

There hasn't been a point in Halo history where seemingly basic ideals werent threatened by an ever present pressure to make the game more inviting to masses. Atleast 343 had sense enough to hire folks who succeeded in keeping them from going over the edge in this particular case. 'Pro Consultants' are something halo has needed for 12 years.

No, I'm not mad that they need consultants. I'm troubled for two reasons that there seemed to be a desire by at least some members of the development team to keep descoping in:

1. It was in a game that, to my knowledge, had underperformed with player retention and generally being liked compared to previous games and it was a widely criticized mechanic by causal and competitive players

2. It is something that almost undeniably makes the game less competitive. They have a right to make the game easier if they want to make it more fun; When I say "basic" I'm talking about what most of us would want in the competitive sense.

 

Stuff like health packs being changed to health regeneration nowhere near as clear cut and is only comparable in the sense that it also constitutes a change to the game.

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Also, I love that a potential EG (Roy, Lunchbox, bubu dubu, Shooter) is scrimming nV right now, but everyone's too caught up about radar or no radar to even notice (I'm in the no radar camp btw).

 

Never change Beyond. Never change.

Thanks for posting, that potential lineup is sick!

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Guys i think the radar debate needs a few hours to cool. After that, lets use the xbl club to run no radar 8s with an observer to capture film. Then we can find what needs more work and what doesnt and try and submit it to ghost. I know this is dangerously close to doing 343s job, but id rather see it done than not at all

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I really hope Bubu/Stellur end up on the same team there probably the best players outside of Optic/nV I'd like to see another squad that's capable of hanging with Optic/nV to be formed.

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I was simply responding to your statement where you said:

 

"I was told by multiple sources on this forum that removing radar would make this game better instantly. What is this 'once pros test more they'll get it' stuff?"

 

You presented the two ideas of:

 

1. The game gets better instantly without radar, and

2. Some pros don't like it instantly

 

as contradictory ideas, which they are not.

 

You can hide behind the semantics of your original post if you like but you didn't answer my question either way. I'm arguing that they are contradictory ideas. If the game is better than why don't some of the people, who play and know more about the game than anyone on here, like it instantly? How are you judging that it's better?

 

 

There's been like 50+ posts explaining why no radar is objectively better than radar.

 

If you have a game that "doesn't feel right" with no radar, it doesn't mean you need to turn on the thing that hasn't ever been a part of competitive game play. That makes zero sense, and that's apparently 343's argument here. What it should mean is that you need to fix a different part of the game... something you changed that now "requires" you to diminish the competitiveness of the game by giving away a huge amount of free information to the competitors.

 

I don't know what that is, but let's not pretend like radar should have ever been the solution here (and this is assuming that after an adjustment period for the players, the game still "doesn't feel right").

 

I'm sure their have been 50+ posts but they honestly get drowned down by the posts that just rant on and on about how no radar is going to fix everything with no explanation of how it would so I would probably take blame for not taking more time to save those posts. But for your post I agree with you for the most part but that is not the reality we live in sadly. 343 made design choices with movement and map design initially, that are realistically not able to be changed, that facilitated the need for radar to be in the game in the first place. You can be on one side of the map to the other in this game in seconds where it would take a far longer amount of time to do the same thing in past games. It's not fair to compare old Halo games to Halo 5. The mechanics are completely different. You can argue that 343 was mistaken in the first place, but just removing the thing that currently keeps the H5 movement system in check because "no other Halo had it" does not make the game objectively "better". Like you said I don't know what another solution would be, but removing radar for the sake of people not having used it previous games hold no water to me.

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No, I'm not mad that they need consultants. I'm troubled for two reasons that there seemed to be a desire by at least some members of the development team to keep descoping in:

1. It was in a game that, to my knowledge, had underperformed with player retention and generally being liked compared to previous games and it was a widely criticized mechanic by causal and competitive players

2. It is something that almost undeniably makes the game less competitive. They have a right to make the game easier if they want to make it more fun; When I say "basic" I'm talking about what most of us would want in the competitive sense.

 

Stuff like health packs being changed to health regeneration nowhere near as clear cut and is only comparable in the sense that it also constitutes a change to the game.

What makes any of that stuff less clear cut?

It's only clear cut to you because you understand the competitive merits of descoping in THIS particular franchise.

 

Why is it so unbelievable that someone who has worked on other games might not immediately understand why descoping HAS to be THE method used to combat ranged weaponry. There ARE other ways of achieving that same objective, ya know. The question is, are those other methods right for this franchise. Apparently due to pro team, they decided to stick with what works.

 

Like i said, there are a plethora of things that were working perfectly fine in Halo, that were changed in sequels as members of the dev team sought to make improvements. There are likely hundreds of things that were nearly RUINED over the past 15 years,saved by discussions similar to what pro team had... and we'll never even know about them. But yeah keep pretending that this was some uniquely herculean task.

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How does anyone objectively decide that removing radar makes THIS game better than? It just is? If some of the pros dont like it in a month will their opinion matter? 2 months? What arbitrary time frame of testing is allowed before Snakebite or someone else saying it doesn't feel right actually matter? I'm just wondering. I honestly don't even care if it's removed or kept, which might not please all of you. I'll watch and play either way.

I'm going to go with 12 years of good gameplay that didn't required or needed radar, it was fun to play and watch. There should be a more elaborate reason here but it's almost time to sleep.

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You can hide behind the semantics of your original post if you like but you didn't answer my question either way. I'm arguing that they are contradictory ideas. If the game is better than why don't some of the people, who play and know more about the game than anyone on here, like it instantly? How are you judging that it's better? 

..........but there are multiple pro players who have talked about how they like no radar more after playing it. Are you trying to argue that the game can't be instantly better unless 100% of pro players like it? I'm confused.

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tbh I have no idea what everyone's arguing about anymore lmao

I disagree with this and don't know how you could take a stance like this!  Halo is at stake here!

 

:kappa:

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Good to know. I'm still confused about what he meant when he said this, though:

 

"Descope: You can't grasp the amount of time, effort and energy our team spent on making sure this feature was implemented within our game."

 

Surely he didn't mean it was hard to program in the game?

 

I am not a game designer, so I have no idea how much effort anything takes in making a video game. However, I do know the H5 beta featured a flinch-like glitch that was obviously patched before release, so maybe he's referring to how getting rid of the glitch was a major priority for the team. I don't know.

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There has to be a direct correlation between high levels of salt on the forum and low numbers of Emma Watson gifs.

emma-watson-internation-womens-day-he-fo

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