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CyReN

Halo World Championship 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Spartan's stream title is Retiring and his !team command is Retired...... No way.

:sleeping:

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Bungie were by no means infallible as the gradual decline of the series under their stewardship makes pretty clear, but they also created Halo to begin with AND didn't bring on a team of highly experienced and knowledgeable Halo players full time only to apparently argue with them about everything. I'm really struggling to imagine how a debate about descope vs. flinch would go down.

 

Pro Team: We need descope back. It's a huge part of the balance of precision weapons in Halo.

343 Designers: But CoD has FLINCH.

Pro Team: Halo is not CoD.

343 Designers: BUT COD HAS FLINCH.

Pro Team: Halo is a precision utility weapon-oriented team-based Arena-shooter. Descope drastically impacts the ability of the rifles to contest the sniper as well as for shorter range weapons to suppress the rifles. That's how Halo plays.

343 Designers: OK, but we're going to put zoom on every weapon because CoD has ADS.

Pro Team: Oh, for fu—

They brought in Pro team for their insight. Not to give them unfettered control over every aspect of the game. Why are we surprised that a collaborative environment would have people with differing opinions jockeying to get their point across?

 

Kudos to 343 for recognizing the need Pro team, for getting one, and for actually weighing their positions.

 

It's obvious to you and I what descope brings to the table. But its interesting that You can't fathom that SOME devs at 343 don't understand or share that sentiment. However, you can forgive that every single Bungie game after CE shipped with other 'obviously' important concepts being trampled over. And you give them a pass because they conciously decided AGAINST using incite from the pro scene?

 

That makes sense. Shit on 343 despite them giving pros a seat at the table and heeding their advice on this key matter. Excuse Bungie because they DECIDED they didnt want pros at the table at all.

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They brought in Pro team for their insight. Not to give them unfettered control over every aspect of the game. Why are we surprised that a collaborative environment would have people with differing opinions jockeying to get their point across?

 

Kudos to 343 for recognizing the need Pro team, for getting one, and for actually weighing their positions.

 

It's obvious to you and I what descope brings to the table. You can't forgive that SOME devs at 343 don't understand or share that sentiment. But you can forgive that every single Bungie game after CE shipped with other 'obviously' important concepts being trampled over. And you give them a pass because they conciously decided AGAINST using incite from the pro scene?

 

That makes sense

 

I didn't say I forgive anything, so try not to put more words in my mouth in your next condescending little lecture. The pro team exists to provide a balance for the "we don't give a shit about or like Halo and would prefer to make a different game" perspective that exists at 343. They weighed their positions and sometimes decided not to mindlessly copy Call of Duty. Though, interestingly, a lot of people who have openly represented that position have left the studio recently. Maybe the guys at First Strike Games will make something good now that they aren't restricted by the loose requirement that they make something Halo-esque.

 

I'll return to my previous comparison: The Coalition didn't seem to have a problem making a Gears of War game that played like Gears of War. And they don't have a pro team to argue with people in the studio who don't like Gears of War about basic mechanics in Gears of War. I'm not sure why exactly you are so insistent on presenting 343's apparent process as something resembling healthy collaboration, but you do you, bud.

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People were mad that it took Pro team (who is a part of 343) to keep a 'basic' feature in the game.

If you look at the development process of ANY halo game, or any game at all, youll see similar fights and debates take place.

Its not a false equivalence at all. If you played CE, You would consider a utility weapon that empowers individual skill an 'obvious' component of the franchise. Well we havent had that SINCE CE, and it ALMOST didnt happen in CE were it not for a last minute code change.

Is descoping more basic than equal starts? Bungie killed that on their own, remember?

Bungie learns from there mistakes? Kept dual wielding in halo 3. Evolved equipment into Armor abilities in Reach.

After much fighting and debate, we got Armor lock and jet packs? Was it not 'obvious' that those shouldn't be in a halo game?

The idea that the previous administration had some clear vision on what makes a good halo game is just nonsense when you stop and look at all the fundamentally bad things Bungie implemented in their own games.

What we should be gathering from this is that pro team is a great asset to the team. And is nice that 343 decided to create such a team. I wish Bungie had a Pro team.

I never said that bungie learned from their mistakes. I think that both companies fail at that. Bungie being bad doesn't excuse 343 doing similar stuff. I'm glad they hired a pro team; I'm just saying that removing descoping is a bad change that shouldn't need countless hours of discussion

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They brought in Pro team for their insight. Not to give them unfettered control over every aspect of the game. Why are we surprised that a collaborative environment would have people with differing opinions jockeying to get their point across?

 

Kudos to 343 for recognizing the need Pro team, for getting one, and for actually weighing their positions.

 

It's obvious to you and I what descope brings to the table. But its interesting that You can't fathom that SOME devs at 343 don't understand or share that sentiment. However, you can forgive that every single Bungie game after CE shipped with other 'obviously' important concepts being trampled over. And you give them a pass because they conciously decided AGAINST using incite from the pro scene?

 

That makes sense. Shit on 343 despite them giving pros a seat at the table and heeding their advice on this key matter. Excuse Bungie because they DECIDED they didnt want pros at the table at all.

 

You make a valid point with this but i think that a) bungie still produced a game we all wanted to play and b) people are upset that the pro team is having to start do deep in a hole that the changes they fight for and get implemented are so expected by us that their progress still leaves us in negative space wondering why key elements are missing.

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:sleeping:

 

I have faith that eventually he'll start acting his age.  He needs to learn to deal with disappointment.

 

I assume he's just trolling/over reacting. But if not.......  :salt:

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I have faith that eventually he'll start acting his age.  He needs to learn to deal with disappointment.

 

He is a child. The man cannot keep his emotions/personal business off Twitter and act professional. He hates Sundays at events, I hate his damn tweets after events.

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I gave my wife a lot of shit for watching 16 and Pregnant / Teen Mom, buy hey at least I got @@Spartan to match that shows drama now.

 

@@CyReN 's wife seeing him check @@Spartan 's twitter "will you stop watching your soap operas please?"

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Lol, just continuing to play the victim in this forum huh? Your hypocrisy goes a long way in damaging your reputation around here, so how about you don't try to go the route of "the lesser of two evils"?

My reputation here, or whatever you want to call it, doesn't stop me from stepping up and saying what I feel.  Someone as involved and as game-intelligent as Snakebite agrees with me too so that means more to me than so many here who click click a red box by my comment when I mention radar in a positive light.

 

https://clips.twitch.tv/snakebite/HealthyGoldfishAsianGlow

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Halo 3?

More of Snakebite's thoughts on no-radar:

 

https://clips.twitch.tv/snakebite/DoubtfulHorseFailFish

 

Hope posting this is allowed.  Just trying to show people here that everyone in the competitive scene isn't dying for no-radar. 

 

 

edit:  dammit I keep accidentally quoting people when i just want to make a post on the thread.  Sorry.

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Maybe Spartan was joking guys. You don't know.

radar

radar

or maybe

radar

radar

radar

OR MAYBE

radar

radar

radar

radar

he was being toxic

You ask for an example so I send you one.  Then you straight up prove my point for me. 

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My reputation here, or whatever you want to call it, doesn't stop me from stepping up and saying what I feel.  Someone as involved and as game-intelligent as Snakebite agrees with me too so that means more to me than so many here who click click a red box by my comment when I mention radar in a positive light.

 

https://clips.twitch.tv/snakebite/HealthyGoldfishAsianGlow

Does he though? I believe you said radar increases the skill gap whereas it seems Snakebite sees it as a necessary evil

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Does he though? I believe you said radar increases the skill gap whereas it seems Snakebite sees it as a necessary evil

Ugh, managing and manipulating the radar does increase the skill-gap.  That was one of many things I've said recently but again, its just an opinion.  That isn't the sole, or even the main, reason why I'm ok with no-radar.  I think the game simply moves too fast and the radar being as short-ranged as it is makes relying on it too much a distraction.  Sure, when it was 25m or whatever it used to be in beta, then its a whole different story.  I have friends who have tried to get in H5 recently complain because the radar is "shitty" because they stare at it like this is Destiny or another inferior game. 

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You ask for an example so I send you one.  Then you straight up prove my point for me. 

The person you quoted was negged to -7.

 

What does my post even have to do with anything?

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The person you quoted was negged to -7.

 

What does my post even have to do with anything?

Good question.

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My reputation here, or whatever you want to call it, doesn't stop me from stepping up and saying what I feel.  Someone as involved and as game-intelligent as Snakebite agrees with me too so that means more to me than so many here who click click a red box by my comment when I mention radar in a positive light.

 

https://clips.twitch.tv/snakebite/HealthyGoldfishAsianGlow

 

In what universe is he agreeing with you at all? Are you delusional? Please point me to the timestamp where he said "radar adds to the skill gap." I'll wait.

 

Regarding the clip, I like Snakebite, but that's a fallacy of relative privation. Sure, there are bigger problems in H5. Broken movement mechanics, awful weapon balance, shitty maps, increasingly awful servers, aiming, broken skill ranks, and so on. That doesn't mean radar isn't a problem. Nice attempt at appealing to authority, though. It makes your position look even weaker.

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I didn't say I forgive anything, so try not to put more words in my mouth in your next condescending little lecture. The pro team exists to provide a balance for the "we don't give a shit about or like Halo and would prefer to make a different game" perspective that exists at 343. They weighed their positions and sometimes decided not to mindlessly copy Call of Duty. Though, interestingly, a lot of people who have openly represented that position have left the studio recently. Maybe the guys at First Strike Games will make something good now that they aren't restricted by the loose requirement that they make something Halo-esque.

 

I'll return to my previous comparison: The Coalition didn't seem to have a problem making a Gears of War game that played like Gears of War. And they don't have a pro team to argue with people in the studio who don't like Gears of War about basic mechanics in Gears of War. I'm not sure why exactly you are so insistent on presenting 343's apparent process as something resembling healthy collaboration, but you do you, bud.

The pro team exists to provide balance. A Pro comes and gives examples of how they did just that. And you are agonizing over the fact that there are issues that needed pro balancing

 

The Coalition had an executive producer who helped design the original gears trilogy. When that is unavailable a Pro team is like the next best thing. You think TC would have there current approach without Rod?

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They brought in Pro team for their insight. Not to give them unfettered control over every aspect of the game. Why are we surprised that a collaborative environment would have people with differing opinions jockeying to get their point across?

 

Kudos to 343 for recognizing the need Pro team, for getting one, and for actually weighing their positions.

 

It's obvious to you and I what descope brings to the table. But its interesting that You can't fathom that SOME devs at 343 don't understand or share that sentiment. However, you can forgive that every single Bungie game after CE shipped with other 'obviously' important concepts being trampled over. And you give them a pass because they conciously decided AGAINST using incite from the pro scene?

 

That makes sense. Shit on 343 despite them giving pros a seat at the table and heeding their advice on this key matter. Excuse Bungie because they DECIDED they didnt want pros at the table at all.

Taxation WITH representation.    

 

but the representation is shitty af. :/

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