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CyReN

Halo World Championship 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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There were moments on plaza where pistola was setting up and controlling the map, that gave me flashbacks of him locking down the pit back in h3! The wizard is officially back baby!!!! It's so awesome to see him winning again!

 

Pretty sure I saw shades of Gandalf when he was making plays locking down Bottom Mid and Nest from Hotel.

 

Contra and Devon duo splitting up? Was not expecting that

 

He's been consistently out-performing Devon for a while now. I think that duo has been holding Contra back. He WILL attract interest. Say what you want, but he consistently performed well amidst a team basically sucking eggs. He has a top shot in the game as well.

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snip

If nothing else I appreciate that you posted this and the things you just listed off. All three (flag drop, back button, descope) were HUGE pet peeves of mine when they weren't implemented correctly. Hopefully we can be saying this about radar shortly 

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Our pro players were not working at the studio during the development of Halo 4. The majority of us were still competing at the time.

 

Here are a few things off the top of my head that our pro players touched that directly impacted the competitive scene-

 

Descope: You can't grasp the amount of time, effort and energy our team spent on making sure this feature was implemented within our game.

 

Flag dropping: Casual community could care less if they could drop the flag or not, this was solely implemented to help better competitive play.

 

Enabling the back button for the score board while moving: Another feature that no other community within our game would care about at all. This feature is a necessity for the competitive players.

 

Providing design direction to help create a balanced version of strongholds: Pre-ship game play was entirely different, i'm not going into details but It was not acceptable for competitive game play.

 

Helping with the tuning process of almost all weapons within the sandbox: We wanted to help create the most balanced Halo 5 sandbox as possible. Is our sandbox perfect? No, but I do believe we did our best to ensure that all weapons within our sandbox are viable upon pick up to kill enemies.

 

Creating as balanced spawns within our current system: We spent many man hours providing high level feedback on spawning within each of our arena maps which I feel hold up to this day. Sure spawns are easy to predict on almost all of our maps, but in which Halo are spawns not predictable at the highest level of play?

 

To say our studio just uses the pro players as a marketing tool is far from correct. Everyone at our studio goes to work every day with the intentions of making the most competitive and fun Halo game for all of our communities. I just ask that you have some faith in us guys. Stay optimistic. Good things are coming.

Thanks for posting. Its nice to have some insight here. The only thing im wondering is if 343 mandates that certain features must be present? I guess im asking if yall are given freedom to play with settings but radar and automatics are mandated to be part of the game

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I understand this thought, but I think you're really reaching for negativity here. I've always tried to be involved in settings discussion since becoming a pro in 2008 (after every event / season) and this is the most communication I've ever had with the settings designers. I was talking to them a decent time before finals even, so something like what you posted wouldn't be an issue. Changes will be made. 

 

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I just realized how much I now despise the term "Arena". No one who really cares about competitive Halo calls it Arena settings, or really cares what the rest of Arena has for settings, just make it and call it HCS. HCS should be the highest level of competitive settings and should never have to compromise with whatever the rest of "arena" settings are. Whether that becomes an HCS playlist or changing the terming and phrasing that's fine, but if an issue 343 is facing right now is changing not wanting to change HCS settings because it will change the settings in arena playlists then we need to have a whole different discussion on what arena is and what HCS is.

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new user btw still getting used to the aim update what would you guys recommend? from the UK too so yes i'm a EU h3/reach kid which will always fall short :(

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I actually did play slayer and played on orion and it was horrible.

 

But it feels like the aiming in general - specifically team arena - feels shit. maaaaan.

 

I definitely feel like the aiming is still much different than pre-update.

 

 

I HAVE to play on 3s/3a now. 5/2 or 4/3, what I used to play on, is way too fast for me now.

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-snip

 

 

 

Thank you for coming to clarify a few things. But I think all of us really want to know, would you have been out BR'd with full OS by Karma on Pit at San Diego '08 if there had been radar?

 

:lxthul:

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Hopefully a few other old pros try it out again. I'm sure FiS will try again, and I want Ryanoob and Cloud to find their way back on a top team. Setting changes could help them out a bit.

Ryanoob would benefit so much with no radar imo.

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no radar is too chaotic huh?

 

now you know what all those casuals felt like when they jumped in competitive halo!

 

:kappa:  :mj:  :tear:

 

 

(maybe it 'chaotic' because it's different, maybe it will be less chaotic the more accustomed to it you become, maybe)

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(maybe it 'chaotic' because it's different, maybe it will be less chaotic the more accustomed to it you become, maybe)

Not saying this isn't true but you'd think there would be a reason that the pro team decided H5 played better with radar on that off. They obviously played the game a ton during development and I imagine they have more experience playing the game with various settings than anyone else, perhaps they found the game just played best with radar on...

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Not saying this isn't true but you'd think there would be a reason that the pro team decided H5 played better with radar on that off. They obviously played the game a ton during development and I imagine they have more experience playing the game with various settings than anyone else, perhaps they found the game just played best with radar on...

 

Or the upper management decided vanilla settings would be better

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Ryanoob would benefit so much with no radar imo.

I cant tell if youre joking or not. But no one is pushing for this change to make themselves better. Its being pushed to make the game better. But im gonna assume you knew that and were shitposting

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Another positive that comes from no radar is that all parts of the map become viable routes.

 

How many times would you avoid running bottom mid on a map because radar would give away your position to the person on higher ground putting you at disadvantage?

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This is caused by players not knowing how to play no-radar yet. They've been playing with it on for over a year now. It'll take time to adjust.

This. If pro were playing no radar scrims, several ones a night for at the very least a week. Then I could take their opinions seriously.

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I'm still confused on why people think "chaotic" is a bad thing. Has anyone ever played an actual arena shooter like quake, painkiller, or UT?

Sometimes its hard to decide if its chaotic random or chaotic idk whats happening because used to radar. You're also mostly right about actual arena shooters in comparison. Halo 5 is slow no matter how you swing it. Its probably just startling to lose all of the free information and control that being alerted through walls and floors will give you. A lot of people might not instantly think of how much control a radar gives you in a situation where you're close but the other player has multiple exits and ways to break line of sight.

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I really hope we get severely reduced power weapons on maps. Especially for slayers you don't need snipe, rockets, scatter/shotgun, overshield/camo, etc. Every time I play Coliseum slayer it seems like the winning team is the team who gets the first rotation of snipe/rockets. After that as long as you don't all die in a dumb push you get free power weapons for the rest of the game.

I'm of the opinion that no radar should just be implemented in matchmaking until the settings are 100% decided upon. Some might disagree, but I think there's no point in forcing people to scrim to test it out. It can make for far too lopsided experiences, which can translate into negative thoughts and opinions following that. Matchmaking allows people to experience maps against people of various skill and levels of teamwork. It's much better and meaningful data. It's also easier to get used to and grind for a real amount of time. Those who want real HWC practice can just set up regular scrims (which is what people do regardless).

 

As far as alternatives go, I don't think an ability-only radar is a good approach. Commit to either having radar or not. The reason for that is simple; let's take Jim, who's never kept up with HCS in his life. He decided he'd check out Arena for the first time. The poor dude ends up spending his entire game getting blindsided because his radar (that is CLEARLY still on the screen) doesn't give the info it should. Is there a real reason for that? Is it just bad luck? A glitch? He can't tell, but he's just upset with the game. Same for viewers at home who are watching HCS. We don't want casters to have to repeat that the radar is different like 30 times a broadcast.

 

It's a problem because there is no proper method of letting people know that the HCS/Arena radar doesn't behave like in other game modes, unless that change was implemented across the board via a sandbox update, that's a change that just isn't going to happen for obvious reasons. Now, if the radar is just not on the screen, then at least people know what to expect and not to count on it.

 

Plus, informative cues are so numerous in this game, it's not even needed. There are clear audio cues for spawning, people lining up a spartan charge, ground pound, thrust, slide, crouching, tossing grenades, and power-ups. On top of that, weapon pads can be seen when interacted with and hitmarkers are thing. Tons of free info.

 

---

 

Having said that, I think the much bigger problem is the overabundance of weapons. In H5, 95% of map pick-ups are a plain upgrade to the starting loadout. And that's insane to begin with considering how powerful and consistent AR/pistol both are. I see it all the time in FFA where it's more often about 1v1 battles. It's far too often about who has the better weapon, and there are a ton of powerful weapons on all the maps.

 

Ever wondered how come Rig TS has the biggest score gaps? It's because there's a lot of power weapons and another weapon of the same kind respawns before the last one is out of ammo. It's impossible to counter them or find a downtime where no power weapons are active to make a proper push that isn't at a disadvantage. Replacing weapons with different weapons that are in the same spot and have the same purpose doesn't change the meta. You legit might as well not change it at all.

 

I think the two maps that have seen real improvements are Truth and Empire, just because the weapons that made no sense are gone. Also Eden because that map devolves into a crouch fest all too often and having a shotgun on it just makes it plain worse. 

 

TL;DR - Make real changes to weapons. Less numerous weapons, less ammo, more difficult to use. New Truth is a good starting point.

This for both these posts.  I wont go into radar other than to say i think we would be better without it in the long run.

 

The number of power weapons/power ups on the maps is way too much at the moment.  Eden slayer has to be the perfect example for this.  Its good that this is being changed to some degree although the changes could go a little further.

 

The general on map picks ups are a major issue as @@Vetoed said.  Its a rare occurrence to have a straight up 1v1 pistol battle.  Much of the time we start shooting, enemy has a br and i know that unless i am substantially better (or they miss unusually) they will most likely win for that reason alone. Given how many there are on the map in most cases you are looking at 50% of all the players on the map having a precision upgrade at least.  I wont even go into autos.

 

Again this seems to be being addressed to some degree, i just hope they work out.

 

Many factors contribute to snowballing in Halo 5 and I think it could be just as easily argued that tier 3 power weapons and power ups need to be MORE FREQUENT.

 

A weak utility and radar both work as crutches for the team that is set up. This is obvious to me, but if you'd like more detail I'll happily provide.

 

Also if Snipe was nerfed (maybe just reduced ammo even) and came up as frequently as rockets, every time weapons came up teams would be forced to choose which weapon to set up for or risk spliting their attention.

 

The more top power items that spawn, the more often the underdog has a chance to take back the advantage, especially when multiple items spawn simultaneously.

 

As long as radar and the magnum are a thing, and ANY weapon spawns on the map (even just BRs), the team that wins the initial push has a heavy advantage. Reducing the number of weapons to anything above ZERO, will maintain this effect.

 

I have no problem with having a single map that comes down to gun skill to appease fans of that type of halo, but power items are the movement incentive of this game, and ultimately what allows a losing team to come back. Imho, to say otherwise is to fundamentally misunderstand halo.

 

The fewer weapons the fewer reasons a setup team has to leave powerful map positions.

 

I'd rather have more weapons away from power positions spawning frequently and simultaneously through staggered timers. And I honestly don't see why at least one powerup isn't on every map in a weak location.

 

Let the unpopular opinion negs flow.

I get where your coming from here but im not convinced it would pan out that way.  Look at how Eden slayer plays out, its one of the slowest gametypes of all.  Dont get me wrong having some incentive to move is important in halo but having too many just makes everyone play more cautiously.  

 

This may be an artefact of the on display timers that disappear once said weapon is picked up though.  Its hard to say.

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