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CyReN

Halo World Championship 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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my new team: the transition team!

 

n3U5OS6.jpg

 

Funny, wouldn't have expected them to be representing the Status Quo.

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So long as Trump and Bernie were eligible players, yes.

...Can I submit a roster of me, Snakebite, Royal 2, and Frosty then?

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Cratos and Showtime are making use of the rules in a way that is completely intended, insofar as Bubu was stuck in a contract they weren't releasing him from. We've gotten really used to contracts being bought out fairly routinely, but it is a _contract_.

 

The issue is that Vivi just said it has nothing to do with contracts. This situation is not Cratos/ESL saying tough luck, you signed a contract. I think although shady, people could agree that is how it goes. This is an issue with the ESL rules that gives more power to the manager than it does to the players. The reason this happened is due to 'ESL rules'. 

 

Yet, no actual source has been provided what rule they followed. We know that in a 2/2 split, the manager makes the final decision. I think that is fair. But this decision was made and the reasoning is cited as the rulebook. If that legitimately was the reason, couldn't Vivi just quote the rulebook? Again, I don't think people would be as angry if this was a clearly defined rule. 

 

The rule they are stating is that any roster that is submitted by the manager is the team and if the players don't agree and don't want to be on the team, then they don't have a choice but to take a punishment. 

 

Not only is this rule ridiculous, it isn't clearly defined. ESL realized they had a bad rule and instead of making the proper changes, they bent the knee and allowed the rule to be abused. 

 

This has set a precedent that players have absolutely no rights. Players should be protected from selfish and greedy managers who will screw them to make a profit. I understand people might not like that I'm so opinionated on this but a lot of pros make their living this way or it's a large source of their income. 

 

I also believe there is no chance this rule will be changed as Panda Gaming just bought out the team. I bet you there would be even bigger problems with ESL if they now took away the pro seed. 

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No, according to ESL it is the manager deciding the teams. Player and Orgs be damned.

 

 

This approach is NOT org centric. It does NOT benefit Players or Orgs.

The ONLY way I see to do this correctly is like every other sport on the planet does. LEGAL CONTRACTS between organizations and players and a community that understands that players and organizations can't just ignore the legality of these contracts and if they want to "change" them before the terms are met they will have to come to a joint agreement.

 

I see. Before, I didn't realize that there was literally no requirement for contractual agreement between the players who were being submitted, prior or otherwise.

 

Fucking dumb.

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Liquid just hasn't made any official announcements.

 

Eco and Stellur are signed to Team Liquid.

I mean does Liquid plan on making an official announcement?

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Yet, no actual source has been provided what rule they followed. We know that in a 2/2 split, the manager makes the final decision. I think that is fair. But this decision was made and the reasoning is cited as the rulebook. If that legitimately was the reason, couldn't Vivi just quote the rulebook? Again, I don't think people would be as angry if this was a clearly defined rule.

 

All roster changes must be submitted to ESL/HCS by the person designated the manager.

 

So unless the manager says you left the team you haven't left the team.

 

 

 

I mean does Liquid plan on making an official announcement?

 
I do not know if they are going to make an official announcement or not.  I will double check.
 
 
Edit: I've been informed there will be an announcement, but it is being delayed by another announcement in the works first.

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Funny, wouldn't have expected them to be representing the Status Quo.

 

ALL politicians represent the Status Quo, don't let campaigns fool you.

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- Bubu, Shooter, Falcated, Shotzzy

- Spartan, Commonly, Suspector, Danoxide

 

1 of these teams won't be in Pro League after Worlds.

 

Something has to change to make sure that doesn't happen. 

Whether it be

- Not making worlds dissolves your pro spot

- ESL dissolving E6's current pro spot

- Expanding Pro League to 9 or 10 teams

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- Bubu, Shooter, Falcated, Shotzzy

- Spartan, Commonly, Suspector, Danoxide

 

1 of these teams won't be in Pro League after Worlds.

 

Something has to change to make sure that doesn't happen. 

Whether it be

- Not making worlds dissolves your pro spot

- ESL dissolving E6's current pro spot

- Expanding Pro League to 9 or 10 teams

they should just expand the league because the exclusivity is killing the am scene 

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You should pick up Ted Cruz.  He at least has experience killing, with his time as the Zodiac Killer.

 

ted is between hillary and jeb. trump and i made a great team, the best team

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- Bubu, Shooter, Falcated, Shotzzy

- Spartan, Commonly, Suspector, Danoxide

 

1 of these teams won't be in Pro League after Worlds.

 

Something has to change to make sure that doesn't happen. 

Whether it be

- Not making worlds dissolves your pro spot

- ESL dissolving E6's current pro spot

- Expanding Pro League to 9 or 10 teams

 

That LCQ finals match between ALG/bubu's team for the last pro league spot in June though..

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The HCS Rulebook does not contain a "Spirit of the Rule" rule.

Pretty sure it contains a rule about bringing the league into disrepute. Though I can't look it up since I'm at work. Intentionally seeking out loopholes to break the intent of their rules absolutely does this.

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I mean at this point, do we really want Cratos's team out of the Pro League? How fucking epic of a grudge match will that be against Bubu's team?

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This makes me so stressed.  :stressed:

 

I didn't want them to get away with it

 

They won't.  I can't wait for this weekend to see them get shat on. Literally.  They are going to get bagged so hard they may not be able to show the games on stream.

 

@@TheSimms, as a forum poster and halo fan what would you like to see happen or think would be appropriate?

 

Dont ask him this.  Or @@Vivi.  This ruling is bullshit.  They know this.  Being ESL employees means there is an immediate conflict of interest with this question that could quite literally put their jobs in jeopardy if they answer honestly.  The fact that they have addressed this here at all, especially with the repeated negs and backlash, is kind of a miracle and they should be given credit for that.

 

  

On the contrary, if you want more transparency with TO's, best to let him post (good or bad.) Vivi is just clearing up how it happened and staying corporate, I doubt anyone at ESL actually thinks it's ethical but at the end of the day it was within the rules and they have to honour it.

 

The way I see it is loopholes are a thing. They happen and there's nothing they can do about it until the rules are amended. It's stupid that the loophole was never thought about before it's occurrence, and in this regard ESL needs to be smarter about the rules they create.

 

Literally outsmarted by a man with a 2nd grade vocabulary and his sidekick who relishes in being socially awkward in public for money.

 

 I agree with this for the most part.  But here is the thing...

From all the shit i have read, this discussion was had with the league on the 9th at the latest.  The roster was not submitted until right before roster lock.  That's at least 2 days before it was officially submitted.

 

The right things for ESL to have done as soon as that conversation on the 9th was over, was to change the rule before the roster was submitted.  I am not even joking.  I know 2 days is not very long in the corporate world, but its plenty long to add a clause like, "If a roster is found to be falsified, that team will immediately forfeit their league seed" or whatever.

 

We need to take all the shit that has been said and make a timeline of events like a criminal prosecutor

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I think you are just trying to compete with my neg rep,

Don't even bother trying to deny it, I am onto you.

You are jealous of that sexy full red bar.

 

There is no other explanation for this post.

I am a king of neg rep.

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- Bubu, Shooter, Falcated, Shotzzy

- Spartan, Commonly, Suspector, Danoxide

 

1 of these teams won't be in Pro League after Worlds.

 

Something has to change to make sure that doesn't happen.

Whether it be

- Not making worlds dissolves your pro spot

- ESL dissolving E6's current pro spot

- Expanding Pro League to 9 or 10 teams

You are assuming teams are going to be the same for 6 months LUL

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- Bubu, Shooter, Falcated, Shotzzy

- Spartan, Commonly, Suspector, Danoxide

 

1 of these teams won't be in Pro League after Worlds.

 

Something has to change to make sure that doesn't happen. 

Whether it be

- Not making worlds dissolves your pro spot

- ESL dissolving E6's current pro spot

- Expanding Pro League to 9 or 10 teams

 

I originally was against expanding, but I think it could work now. I feel like the am teams are starting to get a lot better. 

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I mean at this point, do we really want Cratos's team out of the Pro League? How fucking epic of a grudge match will that be against Bubu's team?

I want to watch the best teams in Pro League. I don't want to watch a couply whiney kids who haven't earned their way there as a team get stomped on, as entertaining as I find teabagging.

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I originally was against expanding, but I think it could work now. I feel like the am teams are starting to get a lot better.

Only issue is that there is no incentive for AMs. BabyJ addressed it in his video. They have almost no chance to make any money playing. No org wants to support a team that will only get them exposure once every few months at a poorly run LAN for a tiny prize pool. Maybe if 343 didn't insist on blowing their load on one major tournament a year, and had a few well funded tournaments, there'd be more drive for these AMs to compete.

 

But right now they have what, a weekly $1k tournament (does this still exist?) with the entire prize going to the winner? Two lans a season they have to pay to attend and will maybe finish top 8 for another couple hundred bucks? Essentially if you aren't in Pro League getting that free salary just for showing up, you're fucked.

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All roster changes must be submitted to ESL/HCS by the person designated the manager.

 

So unless the manager says you left the team you haven't left the team.

 

 

Therein lies the biggest issue, in my eyes. Showtime has clearly abused the power given to him by the rules and ESL. It's been said quite a few times, but any roster submitted by a manager should have 100% confirmation from the players submitted as being accurate. If someone disputes it (like Bubu), then the roster doesn't get accepted. Certainly it falls under the current rules, but rules can and SHOULD be amended to close these kinds of loopholes. Giving such complete power to the team manager when it comes to roster forming is absurd in the first place. 

 

This is what happens when you let stuffy corporate big wigs run things, they honor the rules just because they are rules, and don't allow themselves to apply common sense when it's dictated by a situation. Clearly what Cratos/Showtime did is crossing some ethical lines, and they should've allowed themselves to amend the rules in question to close the now glaring loophole.

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I think you have to be a manager for a team currently holding a Pro seed to submit a roster. So not necessarily anyone can submit one, but the managers (Symbolic, Towey, Elumnite, Royal1, etc) could do some pretty crazy shit.

 

Well I suppose that makes a *tad* more sense than the nonsensical structure that exists lol. I don't know man, I digress.

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- Bubu, Shooter, Falcated, Shotzzy

- Spartan, Commonly, Suspector, Danoxide

 

1 of these teams won't be in Pro League after Worlds.

 

Something has to change to make sure that doesn't happen. 

Whether it be

- Not making worlds dissolves your pro spot

- ESL dissolving E6's current pro spot

- Expanding Pro League to 9 or 10 teams

 

I think those solutions are only masking the problems with the policies, procedures, and judgement that ESL has put in place.

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I wonder if ESL refuses to dissolve the E6/PNDA spot because PNDA/Money Matches has already purchased and bought out the contracts/Pro League spot. I suspect if they were to dissolve after the fact, PNDA could create quite the legal shit storm. 

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