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CyReN

Halo World Championship 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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I am just curious if this has come up again in the office or if this is something that they are trying to sweep under the rug and pretend never happened. The community won't let that happen, but it has turned into quite the mess overall. (Nothing against Simms because he is bae)

No we've deffo talked about it, ive sat down and looked at how this came to be/had it explained to me and it did work out this way, every rule in each set of events were abided by which got us to this point. I can fully appreciate both sides of the coin here as I see all povs on the situation from a neutral ground.

 

I've not been as vocal with you guys on this topic personally as i was not directly involved in it. I didn't see the steps and the process's taken from start to finish and wasnt involved with the players so it would be unethical for me to pass comment on what happened and how.

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I never saw anything about bubu's contract, so I'm not really sure what you're talking about. And I'm not sure why you think the org could have done anything. The rules state that the manager has control over "any and all team changes." If the manager goes rogue and submits some bullshit roster, the org can punish the manager themselves if he's employed by them (and he doesn't have to be- the manager can be anyone that isn't a player), but ESL is going to listen to the manager. Not the org. Because the org doesn't hold the pro league spot, the players and the manager do.

On mobile but you miss this part of shooters post (as well as this being mentioned multiple times by cratos and others)?

 

 

I had reached out to Connor (The owner of Allegiance) and we both expressed interest. He reached out to Chris (The owner of E6) to see if they could work something out. This is when things started to get complicated. When Connor reached out to Chris, Chris let bubu know that he had given E6 the right to his right to the league spot in his contract. To keep it short, since bubu and Cratos were both under contract, E6 has two players’ rights to their right to have a pro league spot, meaning they can control what happens with the spot.

 

So if this isn't the case why do all parties I volved keep mentioning it?

 

 

As for why I believe it wouldn't have played out this way if e6 dropped their team and released all players. Because the reason showtime is considered a manager for a Pro team is because of e6. If e6 dropped the team (which they wouldn't do for multiple reasons) then showtime wouldn't be a manager because there would be no e6. You can't be a manager for a team that doesn't exist, for an org that left the HCS.

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The plan was that our team would submit our roster under the Allegiance pro seed as "Myself, Renegade, Falcated, and Str8 Sick" and they would submit their roster under the E6 pro seed as "Nemassist, Naded (I think it was going to be Monster but I'm not sure), Cratos, and bubu dubu.  We would both skip St. Louis, and when we were eligible for a roster change we would switch Str8 Sick and bubu.

 

Basically, we would both get a pro league spot and us personally, would get Allegiance. However, we would both lose our pro seed for Vegas and we would both lose our only roster change for the season. bubu and I were not on board with this plan at all. 

I'm just curious as to how what's bolded could possibly be the case? 

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Every rule in each set of events were abided by which got us to this point.

 

What rules, specifically? ESL's public rule book clearly says the manager chooses who holds the seed in the case of a 2/2 split. This was not a 2/2 split, this was a manger going rogue and forcing a team to stay together when it was trying to disband. I understand that all league changes must be submitted by the team manager, but I don't understand how ESL claims that that gives the team manager unilateral right to name any player they want to that roster and have it stand.

 

Edit: I'm curious, since you guys say the manager has control over all of their players, if Showtime had submitted a roster with Cratos, Bubu and Suspector on it, would Suspector also be forced to quit his team to get to another roster? Why are some players allowed to leave the team but not others? Because if I remember right, Bubu and Shooter were gone first (probably wrong), and Cratos and Suspector were running games together at one point?

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On mobile but you miss this part of shooters post (as well as this being mentioned multiple times by cratos and others)?

 

 

 

So if this isn't the case why do all parties I volved keep mentioning it?

 

 

As for why I believe it wouldn't have played out this way if e6 dropped their team and released all players. Because the reason showtime is considered a manager for a Pro team is because of e6. If e6 dropped the team (which they wouldn't do for multiple reasons) then showtime wouldn't be a manager because there would be no e6. You can't be a manager for a team that doesn't exist, for an org that left the HCS.

 

if there was any org that would try to strong arm a premium price for a player by using a seed it shouldnt hold, it would be e6.

 

im still trying to play devils advocate and think of a way esl can let this stand, but u can't. cratos has just taken this league by the balls and bent it to his will and they let it happen

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On mobile but you miss this part of shooters post (as well as this being mentioned multiple times by cratos and others)?

 

 

 

I had reached out to Connor (The owner of Allegiance) and we both expressed interest. He reached out to Chris (The owner of E6) to see if they could work something out. This is when things started to get complicated. When Connor reached out to Chris, Chris let bubu know that he had given E6 the right to his right to the league spot in his contract. To keep it short, since bubu and Cratos were both under contract, E6 has two players’ rights to their right to have a pro league spot, meaning they can control what happens with the spot.

 

You're not reading carefully enough. It's not bubu's contract that gave E6 the spot. It's the fact that E6 happened to control bubu AND Cratos. Two players who were on the same pro league team. By giving up bubu, they're giving up the seed. But there's nothing in his contract that specifically gives E6 the seed. This is the important phrase:

 

 

 

since bubu and Cratos were both under contract, E6 has two players’ rights to their right to have a pro league spot

 

That's not a typo. E6 has two players' rights to THEIR right to have a pro league spot. The pro league spot belongs to bubu dubu, so long as he's teaming with another member of the former E6 team. Since they also happened to have Cratos under contract, E6 held the pro league spot. But it's only in happenstance. It's not because of anything in the contract itself. 

 

There is NOTHING bubu dubu and Shooter could have done to prevent this, contract or no. Whatever Showtime submitted is the E6 roster. He could have submitted Shooter and Suspector- the two players not under E6 contract- and those two would hold the E6 seed. The manager- not the org, not the players- has 100% control over any and all team changes. If the manager happens to be employed by the org, then yes, the org effectively controls the team changes, but if the manager goes rogue, if the manager disobeys whatever his org tells him to submit, ESL isn't going to listen to the org. They're going to listen to the manager, because that's what the rules state.

 

That being said, you are correct in saying that E6 just wanted to sell "their" spot for money. I'm not disputing that. But bubu dubu wasn't screwed over because of E6 and his contract, he was screwed over because of Showtime.

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What cratos did was wrong but I like how all of you are so high and mighty to not do the same thing if given the chance.

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If I left this team my Halo career would basically be over because all the other pros think I'm some sort of scumbag degenerate at this point, so I would have no shot of working my way onto another pro team in the future.

 

You staying on this team is the only thing doing this. Leaving would screw you over for this season, but everyone would realize you didn't want to be involved in a sketchy situation. Staying is going to end your Halo career forever in 2 months anyways. Unless this four is deciding to stick it out until you all retire, no one is going to team with any of you.

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What cratos did was wrong but I like how all of you are so high and mighty to not do the same thing if given the chance.

Well we're not cratos, so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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As for our team, we think it’s inconceivable that something like this really happened. We will be attending St. Louis but we will not be representing anyone.  We are in talks with some orgs and I’m sure we’ll have something figured out before Vegas. I'm very excited to be playing with these super talented and awesome little kids and I can't wait to see what the future holds for Shooter's Daycare.  I’ll try to answer any more questions if I can, thanks everyone. 

 

- Shooter

I see what you did there  :kappa:

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What cratos did was wrong but I like how all of you are so high and mighty to not do the same thing if given the chance.

 

doing what cratos did would keep anyone from teaming with you ever again. if i'm good enough and a good team player, i have a better chance of getting on a new team if i need it

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On mobile but you miss this part of shooters post (as well as this being mentioned multiple times by cratos and others)?

 

 

 

So if this isn't the case why do all parties I volved keep mentioning it?

 

 

As for why I believe it wouldn't have played out this way if e6 dropped their team and released all players. Because the reason showtime is considered a manager for a Pro team is because of e6. If e6 dropped the team (which they wouldn't do for multiple reasons) then showtime wouldn't be a manager because there would be no e6. You can't be a manager for a team that doesn't exist, for an org that left the HCS.

 

You edited your post, so sorry for the double post but just so you're clear:

 

 

 

Because the reason showtime is considered a manager for a Pro team is because of e6. If e6 dropped the team (which they wouldn't do for multiple reasons) then showtime wouldn't be a manager because there would be no e6. You can't be a manager for a team that doesn't exist, for an org that left the HCS.

 

This is incorrect. The manager can be anyone that the 4 team players appoint. It has nothing to do with the org (I can show you specifically in the rule book where it says this if you'd like). I don't think you understand how little involvement the org has with ESL. If EG went bankrupt tomorrow and disappeared completely into the night, Towey is still EG's manager because that's who the four players decided on. And Towey would have 100% control over any and all changes to the "EG" roster. The same applied to Showtime. E6 is an irrelevant factor. Showtime has all of the power because he's who the players picked.

 

EDIT: Actually, I am incorrect. I did go and check the rules, and it does state that, in addition to a 3/4 majority of the team, the manager must also be approved by the org. So my apologies. However, it doesn't say anything about the fact that the manager would lose his power if the org were not a factor. And since it clarifies that if a team is not signed to an org that only a 3/4 majority is required, and since that already happens even if a team is signed, then I don't see any evidence as to why a manager would lose his power unless the team votes him out.

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What cratos did was wrong but I like how all of you are so high and mighty to not do the same thing if given the chance.

Most people wouldn't, that is the reason it has only happened once, with the shittiest players in the shittiest org.

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just like bubu and shooters pro league seed

 

wrong thread sorry 

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I'm about to catch up on everything I've missed but I just wanted to let you guys know my buddy who works for the patriots (he makes sure the cameras are off and the balls have air) *wink wink* got me on the team he snuck in a roster with me as the 3rd string QB I've thrown a football once so I deserve it. I'm so happy for how far I've come on my journey to the nfl and to those concerned about the legality just no it's no big deal. I'm a fan of quotes and here's one I live by.

"I'm a scumbag, cause it's not a crime. -Cratos" -Michael Scott.

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