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Halo World Championship 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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do you think nV would let snip3down shade his contract? not a chance

Yeah dude, EG totally just let Snip3down shade his contract. It's EG's fault they're not as successful, and not because half their team split because players dont give a fk about contracts.

 

And if Snip3down wanted to leave EnVy? Guess what, he'd get to leave immediately because if nV tried to hold him they'd get a ton of negative publicity whether or not they would be justified in their actions.

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Yeah dude, EG totally just let Snip3down shade his contract. It's EG's fault they're not as successful, and not because half their team split because players dont give a fk about contracts.

 

And if Snip3down wanted to leave EnVy? Guess what, he'd get to leave immediately because if nV tried to hold him they'd get a ton of negative publicity.

why even have contracts if you aren't going to enforce them

 

i'm lost m8

 

also didn't snip3down leave during the offseason? maybe his contract was up, idk

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Noble and Denial tried this (albeit, among other shady activity), and the Halo community chased them out with pitchforks.

 

Agreed.

I wasn't around back then, but it doesn't sound inherently shady. It's not uncommon for companies to have non-compete clauses for the sake of stability and to avoid the competition from immediately benefiting from a departure.so long as the compensation is fair, and the two sides agree on the terms,i don't see the problem .

 

It's also how traditional sports contacts are.

 

I'm sure there is more to the story though.

 

It's just crazy because you hear all these shady halo kids stories. And it seems like there is a solution that would help prevent that, but the players are against that too.

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Really hope halo gets that reality show, this kind of stuff is perfect, imagine all this going down while these guys live in the same house...with cameras recording everything.

 

on a different note, ninja is apparently scrimming tonight but who knows what team he is going to be on.

 

with naded a f/a i could see ninja naded eltown and trippy/renegade/saiyan falcated.. whoever it is, just a good slayer.

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why even have contracts if you aren't going to enforce them

 

i'm lost m8

Because the scene doesnt allow orgs to enforce contracts right now. Players can ignore them without any repercussion.

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What type of literary disgrace is "moment 22?" Smh, Snowden didn't die for this.

Lol, I just missed to translate from swedish (catch 22). We always use that saying when there is a kind of a deadlock (right word?).

 

Sorry.

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Don't think this has been posted yet, but Flamesword is currently doing a 24 hour charity stream at twitch.tv/flamesword. Currently playing COD but I'm sure he will hop on Halo at some point? Also his beard will be shaved at some point.

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Lol, I just did a direct translation from swedish (catch 22). We always use that saying when there is a kind of a deadlock (right word?).

 

Sorry.

 

Catch 22 is not quite a deadlock, but you are right that it applies to the argument.

 

It's when you can't have A without B, but you can't have B without A.

 

They're saying...

There's no stability because there's no money.

There's no money because there's no stability.

 

 

But that's wrong.

There's no money because there's no value, and there's no value because there's no viewership.  Lack of viewership isn't because of lack of stability.

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Orgs growing their brand within the scene is mutually beneficial to those orgs AND the Halo scene. They 100% correlate to each other.

 

If it's the same set of orgs building within the scene, that org gains more fans in addition to the scene gaining fans. With the added benefit of not losing fans that leave along with org. You think fans of CLG are still watching Halo right now? Maybe a small percentage. But we lost a ton of viewers when they left.

 

Same thing is gonna happen now that E6 has left the scene. And then again with Luminosity.

 

I agree, but thats not how you're phrasing it. You're phrasing it like the organizations NEED to be the FIRST priority to grow the scene, which is entirely false. 

Organizations can definitely help grow a scene, but they are not a key ingredient to the success of said scene (Ex. Halo 1/2/3, very few organizations and sponsorship, but the best times for Halo Esports). My point is, I wouldn't confuse the growth and/or benefits of Allegiance to the growth of Halo, nor would I try to make it your job. 

 

How could you say we lost a ton of viewership when CLG left? CLG became Optic and I'd hardly compare CLG's audience to Optics. 

 

I assure you, E6 and Luminosity do not provide viewership growth in the scene that will make an impact. New organizations will step up to the plate, and will bring their viewership with them. 

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Want to add in, that while yes, the players are able to ignore contracts right now at will without any repercussions; orgs have the same right.

Orgs can cut players and end contracts without any repercussions which is not good either.

 

That's why the developer would need to act as commissioner of sorts like traditional sports to make sure contracts are enforced, and if not heavy fines/penalties fall upon the players and orgs; whichever end doesn't hold up their end of the deal.

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Don't think this has been posted yet, but Flamesword is currently doing a 24 hour charity stream at twitch.tv/flamesword. Currently playing COD but I'm sure he will hop on Halo at some point? Also his beard will be shaved at some point.

Pretty sure he started with Halo and moved to CoD.

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I agree, but thats not how you're phrasing it. You're phrasing it like the organizations NEED to be the FIRST priority to grow the scene, which is entirely false. 

Organizations can definitely help grow a scene, but they are not a key ingredient to the success of said scene (Ex. Halo 1/2/3, very few organizations and sponsorship, but the best times for Halo Esports). My point is, I wouldn't confuse the growth and/or benefits of Allegiance to the growth of Halo, nor would I try to make it your job. 

 

How could you say we lost a ton of viewership when CLG left? CLG became Optic and I'd hardly compare CLG's audience to Optics. 

 

I assure you, E6 and Luminosity do not provide viewership growth in the scene that will make an impact. New organizations will step up to the plate, and will bring their viewership with them. 

Consistent stream of gaining viewers > revolving door of different viewers from different orgs.

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The only way there is enough money in the scene for stability, the scene has to grow first.  No point in arguing about stability until we are pulling enough viewers and sponsor interest to make it worthwhile to incur the cost that would come with incentivizing players to stick with orgs more aggressively.

 

Right now, EVERY org that is involved in Halo is there as a speculative interest, not as an investment.

 

i agree and disagree. we need viewership to attract sponsors, but orgs have the ability to bring viewership. look at the optic boost in pro league and the spike in viewers for an epic optic vs nv rivalry.

 

having a stable roster core can only help as well. think of the names final boss, instinct, and str8 rippin and tell me the faces that come to mind. the ogres, walshy, t2, roybox are players that i would love to have at the center of my team. they are names that draw recognition and a crowd following. they can be marketed. i want to lock down someone popular that i can attach my name to. for example, if i owned nv and wanted to grow my halo brand, i would send snipedown or ola to large events like csgo to talk up the org, what they do for the players, then talk about their experience with halo. make a promotional tour out of it to grow their halo brand.

 

as for orgs getting bad publicity for wanting to hold players to contracts, this could be solved by making contracts more public. then a player can't shame an org that is right in holding the contract as binding .

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There's no money because there's no value, and there's no value because there's no viewership.  Lack of viewership isn't because of lack of stability.

 

This. 

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Lol, I just missed to translate from swedish (catch 22). We always use that saying when there is a kind of a deadlock (right word?).

 

Sorry.

Lol no worries. I googled it afterwards and got the Swedish wiki page for Catch-22 and understood.

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I wasn't around back then, but it doesn't sound inherently shady. It's not uncommon for companies to have non-compete clauses for the sake of stability and to avoid the competition from immediately benefiting from a departure.so long as the compensation is fair, and the two sides agree on the terms,i don't see the problem .

 

It's just crazy because you hear all these shady halo kids stories. And it seems like there is a solution that would help prevent that, but the players are against that too.

 

Oh no, its not. Organizations SHOULD be enabled to enforce their contracts. But when a player then says "XYZ is holding me hostage by contract" the pitchforks come out and a lot of negative press goes to the org. At that point, its probably healthier to just cut your losses. 

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why even have contracts if you aren't going to enforce them

 

i'm lost m8

 

also didn't snip3down leave during the offseason? maybe his contract was up, idk

In most other esports they respect the contracts and go through the Orgs to get proper team change negotiations going so there isn't much enforcement needed. With Halo there are a few factors at play:

  • The fact the scene is based in a single country so there's nothing external (language barrier / visa issues) blocking team changes.
  • The familiarity that it has always been an incestuous free-for-all since the MLG days.
  • Tournaments are few, far between and disproportionally weighted.

It's really a chicken and egg scenario (scene stability / growth / org incentives), but it's pretty obvious you don't get stability through volatility. It's understandable for the individual playing his heart out for the next big prize pool but also fucking dumb at the same time.

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I think I enjoy the crazy team changes. Orgs might think it sucks but it draws a massive amount of interest from the people who follow the game

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nV wouldn't hold Eric anyway, because it's not the right thing to do.

 

regarding the argument, it's a two way road. 

 

I had the opportunity to join Renegades and leave Ola for world's, and stayed for two reasons. Ola and nV. Orgs have the ability to get players to stay, but the stability isn't great either, players jump around too willingly.

I agree, it's not the right thing to do to hold a player if they want to leave.

But allowing the orgs to have control of roster changes, would then allow nV to negotiate a trade or contract movement with another org so they dont lose everything when Snip3down leaves.

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Want to add in, that while yes, the players are able to ignore contracts right now at will without any repercussions; orgs have the same right.

Orgs can cut players and end contracts without any repercussions which is not good either.

 

That's why the developer would need to act as commissioner of sorts like traditional sports to make sure contracts are enforced, and if not heavy fines/penalties fall upon the players and orgs; whichever end doesn't hold up their end of the deal.

there are already repercussions, for both sides....

 

assuming the contract is an actual legal contract

 

i_feel_like_im_taking_crazy_pills.gif

 

 

nV wouldn't hold Eric anyway, because it's not the right thing to do.

 

morality aside if he left to go to a better team it would be the smart thing to do

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Want to add in, that while yes, the players are able to ignore contracts right now at will without any repercussions; orgs have the same right.

Orgs can cut players and end contracts without any repercussions which is not good either.

 

That's why the developer would need to act as commissioner of sorts like traditional sports to make sure contracts are enforced, and if not heavy fines/penalties fall upon the players and orgs; whichever end doesn't hold up their end of the deal.

But how do you impose rules on organizations when the league could potentially run with orgless teams.

 

It seems to me players need good agents and an openness to the idea of honoring a contract.

 

With a good contract, there would be a clause that entitles the org to some sort of forfeiture of bonus and/or bar on a player for competing for a pre determined time period if he breaks the contact. It would also entitle the player to a severance package should the org break the contract.

 

Of course the base compensation would have to be such that a player would consider taking such a deal.

 

Theres maybe not enough money in halo for even this type of structure...

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nV wouldn't hold Eric anyway, because it's not the right thing to do.

 

regarding the argument, it's a two way road. 

 

I had the opportunity to join Renegades and leave Ola for world's, and stayed for two reasons. Ola and nV. Orgs have the ability to get players to stay, but the stability isn't great either, players jump around too willingly.

 

is there anything about nv as an org that draws you to them? and would you as a player like to see orgs have more control over building their team, making trades, etc or do you think current set up is what halo needs?

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