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Halo World Championship 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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If it sucks, and there's no arguing about it, why are you just accepting it to stay that way? Why is not changing just an acceptable answer.

 

"EVERY players salary and paid more than every other organization, I guarantee you would be able to make your perfect team, and nobody would leave. Tell me I'm wrong."

You're wrong. Some players would stay, but others would leave at the first opportunity. 

 

I'm confident if you were able to farm your perfect team, offer them more than any other team, and keep them happy..they would not leave. Also, assuming if you were able to farm your perfect team...they'd be winning. Why do you think nV and Optic are so happy? They get paid well, they win games, and they have other sources to work with for content and partnership. Its because the organizations provide the value for the players.

 

The trickle down effect does not start in an infantile stage from the organization down. It starts from the players down. The players build your brand. The players shine on stage drawing attention to the organization. The players promote your product. THEN the organization reaps the rewards, which in turn goes straight back to benefit the players. If I were leading an organization, anybody that says the organization>the players would lose their spot on my staff. 

 

Why is change not an answer? I never said it wasnt. I've said literally in every post I've made to you, that I think it needs to change. But I think change in the current state of Halo would do much more harm than good. 

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Every other Esport also provides MUCH more financial stability and income. Riot provides a stable salary alone, PLUS the organization salary for example. 

They're not dropping out or changing teams because they have reasons to stay regardless of the situation...which Halo players do not. 

 

You're asking for something that just isnt appropriate for the state of Halo. What you want, we all want...its just not realistic or just at this time. 

Every other esport provides MUCH more financial stability and income BECAUSE the scene is more stable and more profitable.

 

Halo players asking for LoL salary numbers is insane with how unstable the scene is.

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Except in every other esport scene the rostermania isn't as insane and horrible for orgs.

The players deciding to be as shady and unstable as possible definitely partly falls onto the players shoulders.

players are looking out for their own best interests 

 

blame the system set in place, not the end result 

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I'm confident if you were able to farm your perfect team, offer them more than any other team, and keep them happy..they would not leave. Also, assuming if you were able to farm your perfect team...they'd be winning. Why do you think nV and Optic are so happy? They get paid well, they win games, and they have other sources to work with for content and partnership. Its because the organizations provide the value for the players.

 

The trickle down effect does not start in an infantile stage from the organization down. It starts from the players down. The players build your brand. The players shine on stage drawing attention to the organization. The players promote your product. THEN the organization reaps the rewards, which in turn goes straight back to benefit the players. 

 

Why is change not an answer? I never said it wasnt. I've said literally in every post I've made to you, that I think it needs to change. But I think change in the current state of Halo would do much more harm than good. 

You're just not understanding this Fletch.

The Halo scene is so unstable it doesn't matter what an org does right now for a player.

You think an org has the power to be able to ENTICE players to stay, but they don't. Not in a way that would actually benefit the org.

 

Why risk paying a player an hefty paycheck, without knowing 100% that player wont be gone 2 months from now?

Makes zero sense, business-wise to do that.

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Every other esport provides MUCH more financial stability and income BECAUSE the scene is more stable and more profitable.

 

Halo players asking for LoL salary numbers is insane with how unstable the scene is.

 

I 100% agree with virtually every word in this post. Again, I'm not arguing with you. 

 

But do you really think organizations having control over team changes right now, would stabilize Halo? Lets be freaking real. We have WAY bigger problems with WAY bigger fish to fry than Organization XYZ controlling a roster change. 

 

If you're looking at the priorities on how to build Halo as an Esport, giving organizations control of roster changes is pretty damn far down on the list. 

And nobody was saying Halo players should get LoL salaries with how unstable the scene is. I literally said that. 

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You're just not understanding this Fletch.

The Halo scene is so unstable it doesn't matter what an org does right now for a player.

You think an org has the power to be able to ENTICE players to stay, but they don't. Not in a way that would actually benefit the org.

 

Why risk paying a player an hefty paycheck, without knowing 100% that player wont be gone 2 months from now?

Makes zero sense, business-wise to do that.

 

 

Chad. My man. YOU are not understanding this. I've literally said that, in every one of my posts. I wouldn't offer the bigger salary, in a million years with the current state of Halo. I seriously cannot tell you any more times, I AGREE WITH YOU. 

 

What I'm saying is, UNLESS this happens, we wont see stability. UNLESS the players see true economic value, we wont see stability. 

These are things that organizations cannot offer right now, because economically it doesn't make sense. 

 

BUT if you want stability, those are the things that will need to be provided. 

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players are looking out for their own best interests 

 

blame the system set in place, not the end result 

So you're saying players in other esports aren't looking out for their own best interests?

Because the players in those scenes dont go around shading and burning every bridge at every opportunity.

 

There are ways to about improving rosters that have chances at winning. The way Halo players go about it, hurts the scene by making the scene less appealing and less profitable for orgs.

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I really feel for the org owners that get the worse part from these roster manias hopefully in the future ESL and 343 make some changes so orgs don't get fucked over so much because Halo Pros changing teams every month.

Bigger orgs (EG, LG, & C9) don't have much of a managerial investment into Halo compared to their other teams, so they usually don't immerse themselves in all of this roster drama. It's the smaller orgs (ALG & Str8) that are really getting the short end of the stick as they are investing a ton of time into the Halo scene and are scrambling around in the middle of a strange roster mania period. 

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imo the main cause of the instability are the orgs

 

either lock up your players with legal contracts or deal with them leaving

 

 

So you're saying players in other esports aren't looking out for their own best interests?

Because the players in those scenes dont go around shading and burning every bridge at every opportunity.

players in other esports actually have to deal with orgs enforcing their contracts 

 

There are ways to about improving rosters that have chances at winning. The way Halo players go about it, hurts the scene by making the scene less appealing and less profitable for orgs.

i personally know of a few large orgs interested in getting into halo so i don't really see the issue

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I 100% agree with virtually every word in this post. Again, I'm not arguing with you. 

 

But do you really think organizations having control over team changes right now, would stabilize Halo? Lets be freaking real. We have WAY bigger problems with WAY bigger fish to fry than Organization XYZ controlling a roster change. 

 

If you're looking at the priorities on how to build Halo as an Esport, giving organizations control of roster changes is pretty damn far down on the list. 

And nobody was saying Halo players should get LoL salaries with how unstable the scene is. I literally said that. 

I disagree about the bigger fish to fry. Without orgs wanting to join/stay in the scene, nothing else in the scene can grow.

 

- Orgs cant promote their teams in the scene cause the roster is always changing.

- Developers cant promote the orgs because the orgs are always changing because of the players leaving.

- The scene can't grow because the developers cant promote appropriately.

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either lock up your players with legal contracts or deal with them leaving

The players ARE under contracts, but the players ignore them.

 

And any time an org tries to hold a player they get bad publicity caused by the player and the community.

 

"deal with them leaving".

Orgs are, by leaving the scene because they can't build a brand.

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Yeah, rostermania can be fun but I would very much prefer more solid teams. This is getting ridicuolus and I feel bad for all the players.

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imo the main cause of the instability are the orgs

 

either lock up your players with legal contracts or deal with them leaving

No, the main cause is that there is no money outside of tournaments winnings, the second cause is player maturity, we have some of the most immature pro players in the whole eSports scene.
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imo the main cause of the instability are the orgs

 

either lock up your players with legal contracts or deal with them leaving

 

 

players in other esports actually have to deal with orgs enforcing their contracts 

 

i personally know of a few large orgs interested in getting into halo so i don't really see the issue

 

u know a few large orgs? I am eager to know which orgs these are.

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The players ARE under contracts, but the players ignore them.

 

And any time an org tries to hold a player they get bad publicity caused by the player and the community.

sounds like the orgs problem doesn't it?

 

 

No, the main cause is that there is no money outside of tournaments winnings, the second cause is player maturity, we have some of the most immature pro players in the whole eSports scene.

-NavG123

 

u know a few large orgs? I am eager to know which orgs these are.

the only one that i can share is renegades 

 

but there are some other bigger orgs lurking who have reached out to me and asked about the scene 

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343/ESL needs to have more solid rules on teams, Orgs need to be smarter with contracts and salaries and players need to stop shading everyone. No one holds more blame than the others.

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The only way there is enough money in the scene for stability, the scene has to grow first.  No point in arguing about stability until we are pulling enough viewers and sponsor interest to make it worthwhile to incur the cost that would come with incentivizing players to stick with orgs more aggressively.

 

Right now, EVERY org that is involved in Halo is there as a speculative interest, not as an investment.

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sounds like the orgs problem doesn't it?

Yes. And guess what, if the orgs are having these problems then they just leave. And that hurts EVERYONE. The players, the developers, the community, the fans, the prize money, EVERYONE.

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I disagree about the bigger fish to fry. Without orgs wanting to join/stay in the scene, nothing else in the scene can grow.

 

- Orgs cant promote their teams in the scene cause the roster is always changing.

- Developers cant promote the orgs because the orgs are always changing because of the players leaving.

- The scene can't grow because the developers cant promote appropriately.

 

But thats the thing. Organizations change in every Esport, pretty consistently. If anything, I think its good for the League. Whenever a new organization with a different fan base joins a league, they get new eyes spectating. Remember when Optic first joined? CLG? nV? Organizations staying or leaving a scene has very little to do with the growth of an Esport. It seems like you're confusing the growth of your brand over the growth of Halo. Your first two bullets directly relate back to growing YOUR brand, not Halo. They most certainly are not one in the same, and I would advise against tying them together. Build your brand, by all means...but I dont think its Allegiance or any other organization to "fix" or "build" Halo. 

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Yes. And guess what, if the orgs are having these problems then they just leave. And that hurts EVERYONE. The players, the developers, the community, the fans, the prize money, EVERYONE.

not really cause another org takes its place

 

the entire space is competitive in nature

 

if an org fails because it can't retain it's players than that's the orgs fault

 

 

do you think nV would let snip3down shade his contract? not a chance

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The only way there is enough money in the scene for stability, the scene has to grow first. No point in arguing about stability until we are pulling enough viewers and sponsor interest to make it worthwhile to incur the cost that would come with incentivizing players to stick with orgs for aggressively.

 

Right now, EVERY org that is involved in Halo is there as a speculative interest, not as an investment.

I agree, but kind of a catch 22. I think a little more stability is essential for pulling viewers.

 

 

Edit: translation error: "catch 22" is "moment 22" in swedish.

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But thats the thing. Organizations change in every Esport. If anything, I think its good for the League. Whenever a new organization with a different fan base joins a league, they get new eyes spectating. Remember when Optic first joined? CLG? nV? Organizations staying or leaving a scene has very little to do with the growth of an Esport. It seems like you're confusing the growth of your brand over the growth of Halo. Your first two bullets directly relate back to growing YOUR brand, not Halo. They most certainly are not one in the same, and I would advise against tying them together. Build your brand, by all means...but I dont think its Allegiance or any other organization to "fix" or "build" Halo. 

That happens in traditional sports as well, teams move to new cities. It's a lot less frequent and is a BIG deal.

 

Orgs growing their brand within the scene is mutually beneficial to those orgs AND the Halo scene.

They 100% correlate to each other.

If orgs are enticed to join the scene because there's stability and place to build a brand, then they'll invest more money in the scene via player contracts, building bigger fanbases that get more eyes on the scene.

 

Right now yes, you get more eyes on the scene when a new org joins the scene. But then those eyes leave when the org leaves. And then another comes in. No actual grow as you're losing and gaining at the same rate.

 

If it's the same set of orgs building within the scene, that org gains more fans in addition to the scene gaining fans. With the added benefit of not losing fans that leave along with org. You think fans of CLG are still watching Halo right now? Maybe a small percentage. But we lost a ton of viewers when they left.

 

Same thing is gonna happen now that E6 has left the scene. And then again with Luminosity.

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I agree, but kind of a moment 22. I think a little more stability is essential for pulling viewers.

What type of literary disgrace is "moment 22?" Smh, Snowden didn't die for this.

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